The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[GodsGrace]

[Rom 12:2 KJV]
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[Tit 3:5 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[Eph 4:23 KJV]
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[Col 3:10 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Here we are Roger...
Still answering verses with verses instead of explaining to me why mine that I post to you are incorrect.
I guess it's because they are not incorrect --- but correct.

I used Romans 12:1-2 to show that we must renew our mind. It does NOT say that God will renew our mind....
as Philippians 4:8 states...this is accomplished by keeping our mind on things of above. I did post this verse too.

TITUS 3:5 and I'm going to start using the Living Bible because it seems some bibles are really difficult to understand and we read what WE want them to say instead of what they say. This is called eisegesis and is wrong.

Titus 3 is telling Christians that they too used to be disobedient, misled by others, and became slaves to wicked desires.
Did God cause the above to happen, or was it due to the fact that those Christians were mislead by others?
Romans 6:16 tells us that we are the slave to the one to whom we present ourselves. Does this sound like it's something God does, or that WE do?
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

And please pay attention to HOW we are judged:
BY SIN RESULTING IN DEATH
BY OBEDIENCE RESULTING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS

Nothing here about God choosing who will be saved and who will be the reprobate.

Verse 4 of Titus 3 says that Jesus saves us, not because we are good enough, buy because of His kindness and mercy...His grace.
Jesus washed away our sins (of the Christians Paul is speaking to) and gave us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit,
as Jesus said He would do in
John 16:7-8
7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THE WORLD....
IT HAS NOT BEEN DONE FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME....
as your predestination theory states.

TITUS 3:3-7 THE LIVING BIBLE
3 Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient; we were misled by others and became slaves to many evil pleasures and wicked desires. Our lives were full of resentment and envy. We hated others and they hated us.

4 But when the time came for the kindness and love of God our Savior to appear,
5 then he saved us—not because we were good enough to be saved but because of his kindness and pity—by washing away our sins and giving us the new joy of the indwelling Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out upon us with wonderful fullness—and all because of what Jesus Christ our Savior did ..

WHERE does it say above that we were regenerated first
and then saved?
It says Jesus saved us because of His kindness by washing away our sins.
There is nowhere here your ordo salutis.

EPHESIANS 4:20-24
20 But that isn’t the way Christ taught you!
21 If you have really heard his voice and learned from him the truths concerning himself,
22 then throw off your old evil nature—the old you that was a partner in your evil ways—rotten through and through, full of lust and sham.
23 Now your attitudes and thoughts must all be constantly changing for the better.
24 Yes, you must be a new and different person, holy and good. Clothe yourself with this new nature.

THE ABOVE SAYS THAT CHRIST IS TEACHING US AND THAT WE MUST HEAR HIS VOICE.
IT SAYS WE MUST THROW OFF OUR OLD SELVES/NATURE AND THAT OUR ATTITUDES MUST CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.
WE MUST BE A NEW AND DIFFERENT PERSON.
WE MUST CLOTHE OURSELVES WITH THIS NEW NATURE.

Where in the above verses does it state that
1. God does this automatically....
2. That we are regenerated before salvation...??


COLOSSIANS 3:10
8 but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.
9 Don’t tell lies to each other; it was your old life with all its wickedness that did that sort of thing; now it is dead and gone.
10 You are living a brand new kind of life that is continually learning more and more of what is right, and trying constantly to be more and more like Christ who created this new life within you.
11 In this new life one’s nationality or race or education or social position is unimportant; such things mean nothing. Whether a person has Christ is what matters, and he is equally available to all.

WE ARE TO TRY TO BE MORE AND MORE LIKE CHRIST WHO CREATED THIS NEW LIFE IN US...
AND HE IS EQUALLY AVAILABLE TO ALL.

Anyone who wants this new life, will find it in Christ and the Holy Spirit will indwell that individual and help him with this new life.
The Holy Spirit is called THE HELPER.


Now, could you please do this with the verses I post to you?

 

[GodsGrace]

Remember I said I'm not too bright - well there you go!

You're very bright.
That's why you keep away from really speaking to me...
You should read the N.T. on your own....

 

[rogerg]

Here we are Roger...
Still answering verses with verses instead of explaining to me why mine that I post to you are incorrect.
I guess it's because they are not incorrect --- but correct.

You asked me to post verses where they inform us that our minds become renewed, didn't you?. That's what you read in my reply.

[Rom 12:2 KJV] 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God's renewing of the mind IS that which proves what is the "good and acceptable, and perfect, will of God"

I used Romans 12:1-2 to show that we must renew our mind. It does NOT say that God will renew our mind....

1) How does a mind renew itself? What can it use to do that if it must be renewed in its entirety, especially since the unsaved earthly mind is of this world, not of the next -- certainly not that the mind itself can do it of itself.
2) Rom 12:2 is talking about not conforming to this world- "this world" being the law of sin and death of this world -- our works for salvation - the renewing having already taken place.
3) Multiple verses were included in my reply. As mentioned in earlier posts, no one verse stands alone, so you should consider all of them as they pertain to the same issue. Also, you appear to be corrupting their intent.

"As Philippians 4:8 states...this is accomplished by keeping our mind on things of above. I did post this verse too."

[Phl 4:7 KJV] 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

[Phl 4:8 KJV] 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

Did God cause the above to happen, or was it due to the fact that those Christians were mislead by others?
Romans 6:16 tells us that we are the slave to the one to whom we present ourselves. Does this sound like it's something God does, or that WE do?

V 6:14 informs that "sin shall not have dominion over you". So in V15 -16 God thru Paul is teaching a doctrine... but nevertheless, sin WILL NOT have dominion" over them -- it can't. V17-18 informs that they will never be the servants of sin.
v18 informs that they were "made" free from sin: by nothing that they had done, but by what was done unto them


[Rom 6:14-18 KJV]
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

And please pay attention to HOW we are judged:
BY SIN RESULTING IN DEATH
BY OBEDIENCE RESULTING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS

see Rom 6:14, 17, 18 above

TITUS 3:3-7 THE LIVING BIBLE
3 Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient; we were misled by others and became slaves to many evil pleasures and wicked desires. Our lives were full of resentment and envy. We hated others and they hated us.

4 But when the time came for the kindness and love of God our Savior to appear,
5 then he saved us—not because we were good enough to be saved but because of his kindness and pity—by washing away our sins and giving us the new joy of the indwelling Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out upon us with wonderful fullness—and all because of what Jesus Christ our Savior did ..

WHERE does it say above that we were regenerated first
and then saved?
It says Jesus saved us because of His kindness by washing away our sins.
There is nowhere here your ordo salutis.

It's a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - V5 (new joy of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit)-- your Bible version/translation, not mine.

[Tit 3:4 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Mine: [Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 16:7-8
7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THE WORLD....
IT HAS NOT BEEN DONE FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME....
as your predestination theory states.

You lost me on this one - not the slightest idea what you're referring to here

EPHESIANS 4:20-24
20 But that isn’t the way Christ taught you!
21 If you have really heard his voice and learned from him the truths concerning himself,
22 then throw off your old evil nature—the old you that was a partner in your evil ways—rotten through and through, full of lust and sham.
23 Now your attitudes and thoughts must all be constantly changing for the better.
24 Yes, you must be a new and different person, holy and good. Clothe yourself with this new nature.

THE ABOVE SAYS THAT CHRIST IS TEACHING US AND THAT WE MUST HEAR HIS VOICE.
IT SAYS WE MUST THROW OFF OUR OLD SELVES/NATURE AND THAT OUR ATTITUDES MUST CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.
WE MUST BE A NEW AND DIFFERENT PERSON.
WE MUST CLOTHE OURSELVES WITH THIS NEW NATURE.

No one after becoming born again immediately knows all doctrine. But, when taught correct doctrine, they, after hearing it (with spiritual ears that hear which have been GIVEN to them), believe, agree with, and adopt them from the heart

Where in the above verses does it state that
1. God does this automatically....
2. That we are regenerated before salvation...??

No one ever said anything about "regeneration before salvation". Don't know where you would have gotten that from.

COLOSSIANS 3:10
8 but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.
9 Don’t tell lies to each other; it was your old life with all its wickedness that did that sort of thing; now it is dead and gone.
10 You are living a brand new kind of life that is continually learning more and more of what is right, and trying constantly to be more and more like Christ who created this new life within you.
11 In this new life one’s nationality or race or education or social position is unimportant; such things mean nothing. Whether a person has Christ is what matters, and he is equally available to all.

WE ARE TO TRY TO BE MORE AND MORE LIKE CHRIST WHO CREATED THIS NEW LIFE IN US...
AND HE IS EQUALLY AVAILABLE TO ALL.

Agree with everything up to the "equally available to all", depending of course, upon how you mean the "all"

Now, could you please do this with the verses I post to you?

Do what? Respond to them? As far as I know, I always have, except for when you repeatedly ask the same questions over and over again in different posts and never come to a resolution.

 

[rogerg]

You're very bright.
That's why you keep away from really speaking to me...
You should read the N.T. on your own....

Thanks, that was very nice of you.
You were being humorous in your second and third sentences? You have a pretty good sense of humor.

 

[brightfame52]

You wrote, "He died for all [ the called or chosen or church] that [in order that] they which live [ spiritually] should henceforth [ no longer, no more] live unto themselves, but [ nevertheless , rather] unto Him which died for them, and rose again." You are misinterpreting Scripture by adding your comments.

2 Corinthians 5:15-16, "And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised. So then from now on we acknowledge no one from an outward human point of view.

He died for all means => He died for all <= not just "the called or chosen or church". All means all. It doesn't say "spiritually"; that is your unscriptural addition. Verse 16 explains your error very clearly: So then from now on we acknowledge no one from an outward human point of view.

Yes all is limited to the chosen. Paul called them that here 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

And the all Paul was writing about would eventually live unto Christ as I pointed out !

 

[brightfame52]

I don't talk to posts.

I didnt ask you did you want to talk to the post. I see you are evading talking about the post with me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes all is limited to the chosen. Paul called them that here 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

And the all Paul was writing about would eventually live unto Christ as I pointed out !

All means all in many verses.
When reading the bible we must always keep context in mind and not translate
the verse into what WE want it to mean, but what the WRITER wants it to mean.
This is done by reading the entire N.T. and understanding God's character.
Everything in the N.T. must adhere to the character of God.

And what is that character?
GOD IS LOVE.
1 John 4:8 states that GOD IS LOVE. It doesn't say God loves...it says God IS love.
His whole being represents LOVE,,,which He passed on to us when He created us in His image as per Genesis 1:27

GOD IS MERCIFUL
Hebrews 4:16 tells us to draw near (we do the drawing near) to the THRONE OF GRACE so that we may receive MERCY.
When we were still dead in our sins, God saved us through His grace.
WHO is dead in their sins? ALL of humanity is dead in their sins.
Through the mercy of God we can be saved by believing God and obeying His commands.

GOD IS JUST
Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the Lord longs to be gracious to you,
And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you.
For the Lord is a God of justice;
How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Isaiah tells us that God longs to be gracious
He has compassion on us
He is a God of justice
He blesses those who long for Him

Cannot add to that...it is all-encompassing.

God cannot deny Himself, 2 Timothy 2:13
God cannot deny His character
God is immutable and does NOT change....
He is the same,
yesterday, today and tomorrow.

The God described in the N.T. and O.T. and is made visible in Jesus Christ
cannot be the God that calvinism teaches.
He does not create humans to send them to hell for no reason at all.
HE does not create the reprobate.
He wishes that all be saved.
Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God wishes that all be saved.
ALL means ALL. All of humanity. ALL MEN, as Paul states - means ALL MEN. All mankind.

Calvinism changes the character of God which is why it is a heretical teaching.

 

[GodsGrace]

I didnt ask you did you want to talk to the post. I see you are evading talking about the post with me.

Something you and another member here do very well. (evading speaking about posts).
I believe it takes one to know one....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When Abraham obeys the word from God by which he received faith, he is justified; declared to be righteous, or as some would believe, shown to be righteous. @Jethro Bodine

"...the obedience that comes from faith."
Romans 1:5

Obedience comes from faith, so we know that when we see obedience faith is present. That's how we know Abraham had faith in the promise. His obedience showed he had faith. That is how works justify a person. In that usage of the word 'justified' (it has more than one) it means your works show you have faith and the righteousness that comes through that faith.

 

[jaybo]

Yes all is limited to the chosen. Paul called them that here 1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

And the all Paul was writing about would eventually live unto Christ as I pointed out !

"All" is limited to the chosen -- is self-contradictory. "All" means all, "chosen" (a subgroup) does not.

Jesus died for the whole world, everyone who has lived, is living, or will live. Anything else is a distortion of the gospel.

John 3:16-17 says it most clearly... "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him."

 

[brightfame52]

All means all in many verses.
When reading the bible we must always keep context in mind and not translate
the verse into what WE want it to mean, but what the WRITER wants it to mean.
This is done by reading the entire N.T. and understanding God's character.
Everything in the N.T. must adhere to the character of God.

And what is that character?
GOD IS LOVE.
1 John 4:8 states that GOD IS LOVE. It doesn't say God loves...it says God IS love.
His whole being represents LOVE,,,which He passed on to us when He created us in His image as per Genesis 1:27

GOD IS MERCIFUL
Hebrews 4:16 tells us to draw near (we do the drawing near) to the THRONE OF GRACE so that we may receive MERCY.
When we were still dead in our sins, God saved us through His grace.
WHO is dead in their sins? ALL of humanity is dead in their sins.
Through the mercy of God we can be saved by believing God and obeying His commands.

GOD IS JUST
Isaiah 30:18
Therefore the Lord longs to be gracious to you,
And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you.
For the Lord is a God of justice;
How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Isaiah tells us that God longs to be gracious
He has compassion on us
He is a God of justice
He blesses those who long for Him

Cannot add to that...it is all-encompassing.

God cannot deny Himself, 2 Timothy 2:13
God cannot deny His character
God is immutable and does NOT change....
He is the same,
yesterday, today and tomorrow.

The God described in the N.T. and O.T. and is made visible in Jesus Christ
cannot be the God that calvinism teaches.
He does not create humans to send them to hell for no reason at all.
HE does not create the reprobate.
He wishes that all be saved.
Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God wishes that all be saved.
ALL means ALL. All of humanity. ALL MEN, as Paul states - means ALL MEN. All mankind.

Calvinism changes the character of God which is why it is a heretical teaching.

All in 2 Cor 5:14 pertains to the chosen of God, the called !

 

[brightfame52]

"All" is limited to the chosen -- is self-contradictory. "All" means all, "chosen" (a subgroup) does not.

Jesus died for the whole world, everyone who has lived, is living, or will live. Anything else is a distortion of the gospel.

John 3:16-17 says it most clearly... "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him."

All in reference to 2 Cor 5:14 pertains to the chosen or the called 1 Cor 1:24,26

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

 

[jaybo]

All in reference to 2 Cor 5:14 pertains to the chosen or the called 1 Cor 1:24,26

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

2 Corinthians 5:7-14, "For the love of Christ controls us, since we have concluded this, that Christ died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised. So then from now on we acknowledge no one from an outward human point of view."

What is it about "Christ died for all" that you don't understand?

 

[GodsGrace]

All in 2 Cor 5:14 pertains to the chosen of God, the called !

Everybody is called.
Your belief system is the ONLY belief system that does not agree with this.
This is the reason calvinism is heretical.
This is the reason it teaches a different gospel.
There is no GOOD NEWS in the calvinist gospel that, apparently according to calvinists, has been
written only for them.

2 Corinthians 5:14-19 NASB
14For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.



2 Corinthians 5:10-20 TLB
10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged and have our lives laid bare—before him. Each of us will receive whatever he deserves for the good or bad things he has done in his earthly body.

Calvinists teach that God will arbitrarily decide who goes to hell or heaven.
Paul does not agree as per verse 10.

11 It is because of this solemn fear of the Lord, which is ever present in our minds, that we work so hard to win others. God knows our hearts, that they are pure in this matter, and I hope that, deep within, you really know it too.

Why work to win others if it is GOD that chooses who is saved and who is lost?

12 Are we trying to pat ourselves on the back again? No, I am giving you some good ammunition! You can use this on those preachers of yours who brag about how well they look and preach but don’t have true and honest hearts. You can boast about us that we, at least, are well intentioned and honest.

Honest Christians do not boast.

13-14 Are we insane to say such things about ourselves? If so, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Whatever we do, it is certainly not for our own profit but because Christ’s love controls us now. Since we believe that Christ died for all of us, we should also believe that we have died to the old life we used to live.

Christians are controlled by Christ/and The Holy Spirit.

15 He died for all so that all who live—having received eternal life from him—might live no longer for themselves, to please themselves, but to spend their lives pleasing Christ who died and rose again for them.

Christ died for ALL, so that those who live through Him will live to please Christ.

16 So stop evaluating Christians by what the world thinks about them or by what they seem to be like on the outside. Once I mistakenly thought of Christ that way, merely as a human being like myself. How differently I feel now! 17 When someone becomes a Christian, he becomes a brand new person inside. He is not the same anymore. A new life has begun!

18 All these new things are from God who brought us back to himself through what Christ Jesus did. And God has given us the privilege of urging everyone to come into his favor and be reconciled to him. 19 For God was in Christ, restoring the world to himself, no longer counting men’s sins against them but blotting them out. This is the wonderful message he has given us to tell others. 20 We are Christ’s ambassadors. God is using us to speak to you: we beg you, as though Christ himself were here pleading with you, receive the love he offers you—be reconciled to God.

The Apostles are urging everyone to come into God's favor and be reconciled to Him.
For God was reconciling the world to Himself through Christ.
THIS IS THE WONDERFUL MESSAGE...The Good News.
That is...to receive the love God offers and be reconciled to Him through Jesus.

We are to receive the love of God.....by our own free will.
The above does not state that we are zapped with it.
The bible teaches free will.

 

[brightfame52]

Redemption provides New Birth !

One of the reasons why Christ came to this earth, was to be made under the Law, for His Members [ of His Body] in order to redeem them from the curse of the Law, and that they may receive the Adoption of Sons !

Gal 4:4-5

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

That is to receive the Spirit of Adoption. Rom 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

This Spirit is given Sovereignly to all Christ redeemed with His blood, simply, all for whom He died !15

 

[brightfame52]

wondering

Everybody is called

Blatantly false. This is particularly false in the context of of the Corinthians ! 1Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The called here #1 are in contrast to them which are not the called. # 2 The called here in the original are the called, called is with the definite article so that its a definite particular group of people in mind separate from others.

That again makes your statement false. 2 Cor 5:14 is pertaining to the chosen/called !

 

[JLB]

[Rom 12:2 KJV] 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2



The Calvinist perspective seems to be that God alone, without any effort of obedience on our part, does everything for a person from start to finish, concerning salvation; concerning eternal life.


Furthermore, the Calvinist believes if man exercises his will, and employs the effort of (by the Spirit) obeying God’s instructions, then he is trying to be saved by a doctrine of works;


This could not be further from the truth.


Embedded in the Calvinist Theology is the concept that if man obeys God, he is trying to keep the works of the law to be saved.


The truth is, only those who obey Jesus Christ, will be saved.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

God's renewing of the mind IS that which proves what is the "good and acceptable, and perfect, will of God

As we see from the actual scripture text, the renewing of the mind involves obedience to the Spirit’s instruction through Paul which says... you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.


You yourself must apply yourself to these instructions, which means you must obey what is being instructed by the Spirit;

• you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God
• do not be conformed to this world,
• but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

The result of obeying these instructions is that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.


The way you are going to have your mind renewed is by continuing in the doctrine; the teachings of Christ, and studying His words, and commandments, so that you apply them to your life as truth.


The Spirit will led you, but you must follow these instructions and obey them in order to see the resulting outcome of being transformed by the renewing of your mind.



Peter says it this way —



But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:5-9




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Redemption provides New Birth !

One of the reasons why Christ came to this earth, was to be made under the Law, for His Members [ of His Body] in order to redeem them from the curse of the Law, and that they may receive the Adoption of Sons !

Gal 4:4-5

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

That is to receive the Spirit of Adoption. Rom 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

This Spirit is given Sovereignly to all Christ redeemed with His blood, simply, all for whom He died !15

You must post the source of these posts.
They are not written by you.

 

[brightfame52]

You must post the source of these posts.
They are not written by you.

Really, thats a serious accusation, if its not true, that's slander ! Please prove this accusation, that they are not written of me !

 

[Fastfredy0]

Re: Everyone is called.

Blatantly false.

Agreed.
Premise 1: The call consists of the gospel of Christ
Premise 2: Billions have died who never heard of Christ
Conclusion: Everyone is NOT called. It is a blatant lie. To say those that have not heard of Christ can be saved is to preach another gospel. Paul says in Galatians 1:8 that those that preach another gospel "let him be under a curse". Paul gives them a severe warning.