The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[JLB]

Christ was faithful to, and accomplished perfectly, the mission assigned Him by God the Father. Thereby was God the Father glorified and completely faithful to the promise (He) had made to Abraham.

Amen.

 

[JLB]

18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.

We are not discussing the law of Moses. The law of Moses was abolished in His flesh and nailed to the cross, having been taken out of the way.

 

[JLB]

Christ was faithful to, and accomplished perfectly, the mission assigned Him by God the Father. Thereby was God the Father glorified and completely faithful to the promise (He) had made to Abraham.

(forgot to include this)

[Gal 3:18 KJV] 18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.

[Jhn 6:39 KJV]
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

[Psa 40:7-10 KJV]
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

[Heb 10:9-10 KJV]
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Because of, and by the faith of Christ, those who are to be saved inherit (gifted) faith in Christ.
It was His work to achieve it, but is given as a gift to its recipients

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Notice that nothing in Gal 2:16 required work of any kind on our part: "but by the faith of Jesus Christ" "we have believed in Jesus Christ": His faith gave us our faith

Please answer the question I asked, that actually pertains to the topic of discussion.



If a scripture says "by faith"...., how does something get accomplished "by faith".


How does faith work to accomplish salvation or healing or to produce righteousness in a persons life.




If you don’t know then just say so.





JLB

 

[JLB]

My response was to clarify to some people who may think otherwise.
Some of the posts on this thread can be confusing.

Question:

How does faith work to accomplish salvation or healing or to produce righteousness in a persons life?


Answer: By the work of obedience; to do what God says to do, by which a person received faith.


Example:


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


God told Abraham to offer his son Isaac on the altar; Abraham now has faith.


When Abraham obeys the word from God by which he received faith, he is justified; declared to be righteous, or as some would believe, shown to be righteous. Jethro Bodine





JLB

 

[JLB]

The obedience of faith.
Not the obedience because we follow a set of rules with no faith.

AMEN AND AMEN !!!!!

 

[JLB]

The obedience of faith.
Not the obedience because we follow a set of rules with no faith.
We do good deeds/works because we have faith,
we obey out of faith.
We practice the obedience of faith.
Romans 1:5
We believe and so we obey.

5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake...

I think we agree.

Obedience to the word by which we receive faith, “completes” faith faith that is otherwise “dormant”, “inactive”, or as James says “dead”.


Just as the negative side of a battery must be involved to complete the circuit and activates the dormant car engine causing it to function, so also faith without the corresponding action of obedience is incomplete, being dead.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22

• faith was working together with his works, and by works (the action of his obedience to offer his son Isaac on the altar as God commanded) faith was made perfect (complete)?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26



JLB

 

[jaybo]

Purpose and accomplishment of Christ death

2 Cor 5:15

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Paul here in this context gives us another purpose and accomplishment of Christ death for sinners.

He died for all [ the called or chosen or church] that [in order that] they which live [ spiritually] should henceforth [ no longer, no more] live unto themselves, but [ nevertheless , rather] unto Him which died for them, and rose again.

So the very death of Christ, produces in them He died for, a life of self sacrifice, and living unto Him, the crucified life.

This is why Paul boasted in the power of the cross in his own life writing Gal 6:14

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The cross effects each life of those Christ died for to one degree or another, but it produces results, it bears fruit. Jn 12:2414

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

When the Bible says that Jesus died for all that's exactly what it means: all. Not just the "called or chosen or church". All means all: every single person who has lived, is living, or will live. All means all. And "live" isn't limited to those who live "spiritually" (whatever that means). BTW, in a better, more modern translation, written in our language (as were the "original" texts), Galatians 5:15 says, "And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised."

 

[Fastfredy0]

All means all:

This is circular logic and should be ignored.

"All" can mean mean "without exception" or "without distinction (each group)".
People give it the meaning that fits their theology.
Dictionary: used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing. NOTICE THE "OR" THAT INDICATES MULTIPLE MEANINGS.

For example:

• Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. If this means "without exception" then you have UNIVERSALISM. If this mean "without distinction" then justification applies to every group without exception.
• Romans 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?; That GOD does not give all things to all people is self-evident
• Jill says, "All motorcycles have two wheels. " Greg responds, "That's ridiculous. A single motorcycle has two wheels. And there are of 200,000,000 motorcycles in the world. Therefore, all motorcycles would have over 400,000,000 wheels. Thus the word ALL is ambiguous and often construed by one's bias.

So what does these verses with ALL mean. The solution is to use EXPLICIT verses to clear up the meaning of IMPLICIT verses.

 

[rogerg]

This is my last post on this sub-topic...

You wrote

Have you never read these in the Bible?

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

this means that no single verse stands on it's own and must be interpreted relative the entire Bible.
"why not let God's word "speak" in plain language?

Why must you explain what "this means"? Point proven! I won't discuss this any more in this thread. Period.

I don't expect a reply from you but neither did I want to leave your comment unanswered.

You said:
"Why not let God's word "speak" in the plain language that Jesus, the apostles and others spoke/wrote? How many people would have listened to the Savior if he disguised His words in a language that the people didn't use and therefore clearly understand?"

I'm not completely sure what you meant by "plain language", but if you meant to read it just as one would read a normal book and draw interpretations from it on that basis, I think you would do it a grave disservice.
My reply was intended to demonstrate that God did not write the Bible to be interpreted as you seem to imply it should. The Bible was written by God using allegory, parables and symbols to convey His spiritual (not earthly) doctrine. Thus, the admonitions to compare the spiritual with the spiritual and that no verse of prophecy is of any private interpretation, among other directives, are critical. Otherwise, the Bible for the most part (but not totally) would become, a somewhat long, boring history of the nation of Israel. If Jesus informed us that those literary devices were used, then we should evaluate the Bible accordingly

 

[rogerg]

We are not discussing the law of Moses. The law of Moses was abolished in His flesh and nailed to the cross, having been taken out of the way.

For those saved, I think it pertains to the abolishing of the law of sin and death

 

[rogerg]

Please answer the question I asked, that actually pertains to the topic of discussion.



If a scripture says "by faith"...., how does something get accomplished "by faith".


How does faith work to accomplish salvation or healing or to produce righteousness in a persons life.




If you don’t know then just say so.

Thought I was clear. Regarding salvation, nothing gets "accomplished" by our faith. All that was to be accomplished, has been accomplished, by the faith of Christ (.Christ's faith). Is that more clear? Our faith DOES NOTHING to accomplish our salvation in any way. Our faith comes about as a by-product, or result, of having been saved/born-again. That's why Jesus Christ has the title of Savior and why we haven't been given it.

 

[JLB]

For those saved, I think it pertains to the abolishing of the law of sin and death

There is no abolishing the law of sin and death, anymore than the law of gravity is abolished because we are in an aircraft, operating by the law of areodynamics.

As long as we are "in the aircraft" we are free from the law of gravity. If we transgress the law of areodynamics and step out of the aircraft, the law of gravity will take effect.


As long as we are in Christ, then the law of the Spirit of law in Christ we are free from the law of son and death... if we walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:1-2



Heres how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24





JLB

 

[rogerg]

Heres how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Wait..... doesn't that verse say "He abides in us" and does so "by the Holy Spirit"? That doesn't sound to me like we need to do anything, right ? Is that what you're saying?

 

[rogerg]

There is no abolishing the law of sin and death, anymore than the law of gravity is abolished because we are in an aircraft, operating by the law of areodynamics.

Meaning for those who have been saved. It was abolished on their behalf by they being placed under the auspices of law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ

 

[rogerg]

Where is the verse that states that God renews your mind?
Please list them.

[Rom 12:2 KJV]
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[Tit 3:5 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[Eph 4:23 KJV]
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[Col 3:10 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

[brightfame52]

When the Bible says that Jesus died for all that's exactly what it means: all. Not just the "called or chosen or church". All means all: every single person who has lived, is living, or will live. All means all. And "live" isn't limited to those who live "spiritually" (whatever that means). BTW, in a better, more modern translation, written in our language (as were the "original" texts), Galatians 5:15 says, "And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised."

Did you want to discuss the post ?

 

[rogerg]

Oh for goodness sake roger!!!
Are YOU serious?

Remember I said I'm not too bright - well there you go!

 

[jaybo]

Purpose and accomplishment of Christ death

2 Cor 5:15

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Paul here in this context gives us another purpose and accomplishment of Christ death for sinners.

He died for all [ the called or chosen or church] that [in order that] they which live [ spiritually] should henceforth [ no longer, no more] live unto themselves, but [ nevertheless , rather] unto Him which died for them, and rose again.

So the very death of Christ, produces in them He died for, a life of self sacrifice, and living unto Him, the crucified life.

This is why Paul boasted in the power of the cross in his own life writing Gal 6:14

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The cross effects each life of those Christ died for to one degree or another, but it produces results, it bears fruit. Jn 12:2414

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

You wrote, "He died for all [ the called or chosen or church] that [in order that] they which live [ spiritually] should henceforth [ no longer, no more] live unto themselves, but [ nevertheless , rather] unto Him which died for them, and rose again." You are misinterpreting Scripture by adding your comments.

2 Corinthians 5:15-16, "And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised. So then from now on we acknowledge no one from an outward human point of view.

He died for all means => He died for all <= not just "the called or chosen or church". All means all. It doesn't say "spiritually"; that is your unscriptural addition. Verse 16 explains your error very clearly: So then from now on we acknowledge no one from an outward human point of view.

 

[jaybo]

Did you want to discuss the post ?

I don't talk to posts.

 

[GodsGrace]

ggg

Obedience to the word by which we receive faith, “completes” faith faith that is otherwise “dormant”, “inactive”, or as James says “dead”.


Just as the negative side of a battery must be involved to complete the circuit and activates the dormant car engine causing it to function, so also faith without the corresponding action of obedience is incomplete, being dead.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22

• faith was working together with his works, and by works (the action of his obedience to offer his son Isaac on the altar as God commanded) faith was made perfect (complete)?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26



JLB

Agreed, of course.

And I also agree that perfect means complete.
Jesus said that we are to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.
Well, He certainly knew we would not be perfect...so it could mean complete in our faith...mature in our faith, as even Paul said to be.
Matthew 5:48
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ.
2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready,
3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?…

The Christians Paul is addressing were not complete, or mature.