The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[rogerg]

Yes.
Please provide a greater explanation.
We here are in dire need of learning about Christianity as per your understanding of it.

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter shows us he is addressing those who have been given the same faith that he was given. How did they receive it? Solely through the righteousness of God but by nothing they had done.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Grace and peace ( peace with God, that is) was given unto them, being demonstrated in a true knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ (also God). How did they receive it? Solely through God but by nothing they had done.

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

God's divine power GAVE unto them everything pertaining to eternal life and godliness. How did they receive it? Solely through God but by nothing they had done.

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

God made and gave great and exceeding promises to them and because of those promises were they given the divine nature but by nothing they had done.

 

[JLB]

Yes, but not the Calvinist, the Bible. That's why Jesus has the title of Savior.

I can't speak for Calvinists, but for myself, I believe that if someone truly comes to, or exhibits from the heart,
those characterizes of a Christian, it is probably because they HAVE already become born-again. Becoming
born-again is the prerequisite to everything else - and God alone causes that.



Only those who have become born-again will truly obey -- true obeyance is a by-product of salvation and given to those chosen to it. In its ultimate form, obeying is manifested in a knowledge of, and trusting in Christ alone as Savior and in all ways implied by that. Trusting Christ as Savior, means to trust from the heart that He has already accomplished everything needed for salvation, to include those who are to be saved - hence nothing left for us to do, otherwise, we become savior not Christ. You do believe Christ is the Savior, don't you?
Regarding your statement above, consider that if (our) obeying was a prerequisite to salvation, it would mean that should we at any time not obey, salvation would be lost -- or does it mean that should we obey only once (whatever that would entail), then we never have to obey again? Which is it?
However, if obeying was our responsibility to accomplish, then we would be under law and not grace. Observe in the verse you supplied that salvation is ETERNAL so it can never be lost once given. If eternal, exactly what actions on our part, and with what frequency, do you think would be needed satisfy it and keep it eternal? Can you list those requirements for us?




[Tit 3:5 KJV] 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

As with all biblical interpretation, we must look at all pertinent verses to come to a correct understanding. Please see Titus 3:5 above which provides us move information about renewing.

The transformation from not conforming to conforming doesn't happen all at once. Its application is a progressive process throughout one's life - but the basis of which is by the knowledge of Christ - which also is given. For those born-again, they have been indwelt by the Holy Spirit who leads them into truth, and of which they cannot ignore, because He has renewed their minds. To not conform to this world, their minds first would first have had to be transformed. Otherwise, why would they even care about transformation, and how would they know what it meant?
Please see below:

[Tit 3:5 KJV] 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Well, how can someone know exactly when they've have achieved it? What do those criteria exactly mean in terms of one's actions? They provide no guidance for translating into actual personal actions. And don't forget, that if one must do them to be saved, then they have become law, yet, no one can be saved by the works of law as the Bible makes abundantly clear.



Again, how would someone know when that has been achieved? To be able to know that, tangible criteria must be available to define exactly what constitutes success, can be referenced, understood, and would have been readily available to everyone to reference who was ever born. Otherwise, our personal understanding/assessment would be our only guide and therefore, not an objective measurement that could be trusted. Considering the significance of the issues at hand - eternal salvation -a lack of a standard, or lack of detail/precision in the standard, would be unacceptable and fraught with danger. So then, what do you perceive the standard to be in actionable/measurable terms.


What I think you're missing is that when someone becomes born-again they aren't magically imbued with perfect spiritual knowledge. Rather, they become indwelt by the Holy Spirt, who then leads them into correct understanding of spiritual doctrine over time. Think you should look at 2 Pete 1:1 - 4: too. They help establish the foundation of verses 2 Peter 2:5 - 9:
[2Pe 1:1-4 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I think their meaning is obvious, but I can provide greater explanation of the above if you'd like.

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7


This passage refers to becoming saved, regenerated, born again through the Gospel message; the knowledge about Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.


My point is: Becoming born again, regenerated, saved occurs by hearing and obeying the Gospel.


The renewing of the mind comes after this, and is accomplish by obeying the biblical Instructions.




JLB

 

[rogerg]

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7


This passage refers to becoming saved, regenerated, born again through the Gospel message; the knowledge about Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

Don't see how you can get to that conclusion from that verse. It says "according to His mercy" , "regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit", "justified by His grace we should become heirs". Where do you find by hearing and obeying the Gospel in it?

My point is: Becoming born again, regenerated, saved occurs by hearing and obeying the Gospel.


The renewing of the mind comes after this, and is accomplish by obeying the biblical Instructions.

I understand and have understood your point but I disagree. There are no requirements in that verse that identifies anything we must do to become saved. God does/did it all

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can one who don't believe in Christ after hearing of Christ be saved by "knowledge of God, and of sin, and the judgment to come" or does he have to believe in both?

The key here is "after hearing of Christ". Once you hear about Christ Romans 2:14-16 doesn't apply to you anymore. You are now responsible for a higher revelation of knowledge.

"Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent."
Acts 17:30

There are different levels of revelation to different groups of people in different times of history. You're only responsible for the level of revelation you possess. Some have the full knowledge of the appearing of Christ. Some only have the revelation of Moses. Some have only the revelation of nature and conscience. God judges according to the level of knowledge you have, not what you don't have, and what you did with that level of knowledge. He's not holding unbelief in Christ against a person who hasn't even heard the name of Christ.

"...their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them..."
Romans 2:15

I used to get a kick out of people I would witness to at work that would ask me, "well, what about the natives of South America and Africa that have never heard about Jesus?" As if the existence of people who don't know about Jesus somehow get them who do know about Jesus off the hook with God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What is the content of "knowledge of God" that is needed to be saved?

"...when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts..."
Romans 2:14-15

 

[jaybo]

"...when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts..."
Romans 2:14-15

This was your response to "What is the content of "knowledge of God" that is needed to be saved?" All that Paul is saying is that, even though the Gentiles didn't have the Mosaic law, they behaved appropriately in both their private and public lives.

The knowledge of God that is needed to be saved is to believe that Jesus sacrifice paid the penalty for all sin, including the sins of the individual.

John 1:12, "But to all who have received him—those who believe in his name—he has given the right to become God’s children."

John 3:16, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:36, "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40, "For this is the will of my Father—for everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him to have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Acts 10:43, "About him all the prophets testify, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Romans 9:33, "... just as it is written, “Look, I am laying in Zion a stone that will cause people to stumble and a rock that will make them fall, yet the one who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Romans 10:9, "because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Peter 1:8, "You have not seen him, but you love him. You do not see him now but you believe in him, and so you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,"

1 John 5:10, "(The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.)"

 

[GodsGrace]

Re: Everyone is called.

Agreed.
Premise 1: The call consists of the gospel of Christ
Premise 2: Billions have died who never heard of Christ
Conclusion: Everyone is NOT called. It is a blatant lie. To say those that have not heard of Christ can be saved is to preach another gospel. Paul says in Galatians 1:8 that those that preach another gospel "let him be under a curse". Paul gives them a severe warning.

The question fastfredy is who is preaching a different gospel.

Those denominations that all agree as to the good news of the gospel....
or the one and only "denomination" that does not agree?

BTW,,,,in calvinist teaching, exactly what IS the good news?

Is it the good news that God gets to choose who will be saved or lost based on NOTHING....?

and so the reader might as well put the bible down since it will be of no value to him....
being that he has nothing to do with his own salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

This was your response to "What is the content of "knowledge of God" that is needed to be saved?" All that Paul is saying is that, even though the Gentiles didn't have the Mosaic law, they behaved appropriately in both their private and public lives.

The knowledge of God that is needed to be saved is to believe that Jesus sacrifice paid the penalty for all sin, including the sins of the individual.

John 1:12, "But to all who have received him—those who believe in his name—he has given the right to become God’s children."

John 3:16, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:36, "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him."

John 6:40, "For this is the will of my Father—for everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him to have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Acts 10:43, "About him all the prophets testify, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Romans 9:33, "... just as it is written, “Look, I am laying in Zion a stone that will cause people to stumble and a rock that will make them fall, yet the one who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Romans 10:9, "because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Peter 1:8, "You have not seen him, but you love him. You do not see him now but you believe in him, and so you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,"

1 John 5:10, "(The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.)"

Jaybo....

What about BEFORE the bible was written or the New Testament?

How did those persons know about God?

 

[GodsGrace]

"...when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts..."
Romans 2:14-15

Many times I've posted Romans 1:19-20 to Fastfredy0 ,
but he rather enjoys reading his systematic theology books instead.
I enjoy reading the bible instead...
It is God's word to us...
not books on systematic theology.
I believe God has let us know about Him what we need to know.
In the Book HE inspired.

 

[jaybo]

Jaybo....

What about BEFORE the bible was written or the New Testament?

How did those persons know about God?

They were slaves in Egypt and God freed them to become His chosen people. Moses and Aaron initially taught them about God, as did the prophets who followed after. Initially they had God lead them by the pillars of cloud and fire: "Now the Lord was going before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them in the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel day or night." Exodus 13:21

As you know, "The Bible" was initially a set of separate scrolls that were later combined into the Hebrew Bible. That was augmented by the various authors of the "books" that we now call the New Testament.

That said, the overwhelming majority of information about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and other Biblical topics was transmitted orally. The great majority of people were illiterate.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter shows us he is addressing those who have been given the same faith that he was given. How did they receive it? Solely through the righteousness of God but by nothing they had done.

Please post the verse you're addressing.
In this case it's 2 Peter 1:1
I agree with another member that states we should be reading versions of the bible that are understandable.
Apparently you, and others, take a verse and make it mean whatever you want it to mean.
This is not how the N.T. is to be read.
I also wonder if your bible has notes by John Macarthur,,,but that is of no concern to me.

Here is what 2 Peter 1:1 means:

1 From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours. 2 May grace and peace be lavished on you as you grow in the rich knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!
NET

2 Peter 1:1: "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:"
NIV

2 Peter 1:1, NLT: "This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior."


God gives faith, through His righteousness, to those that believe in Him, by whatever method they have come to know the living God.
Perhaps by hearing the gospel of the good news of salvation by faith, or perhaps in a church sermon, or a testimony of someone.

How they received this faith is by believing in God.
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

And how does one get faith?
By seeing a Christian and liking their life.
By hearing the word of God.
By becoming curious about this religion.
By learning about it.
By accepting it and deciding to be a disciple of Jesus.
The person believes...God gives the faith.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Grace and peace ( peace with God, that is) was given unto them, being demonstrated in a true knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ (also God). How did they receive it? Solely through God but by nothing they had done.

I agree that God gives us peace.
What we do is that we are devoted to God...
And through the knowledge of God we receive grace and peace.
Just as 2 Peter 1:2 states.

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

God's divine power GAVE unto them everything pertaining to eternal life and godliness. How did they receive it? Solely through God but by nothing they had done.

Is there ever a time when we have to start doing something?

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

God made and gave great and exceeding promises to them and because of those promises were they given the divine nature but by nothing they had done.

Verse 4 of 2 Peter 1 states that by the promises we might BECOME partakers of the divine nature.
Verse 5 says we are to have moral excellence, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love.

Sounds like something we must do...WE ARE TO HAVE...it does not say that we have already attained these qualities since they must increase....verse 8.

 

[GodsGrace]

They were slaves in Egypt and God freed them to become His chosen people. Moses and Aaron initially taught them about God, as did the prophets who followed after. Initially they had God lead them by the pillars of cloud and fire: "Now the Lord was going before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them in the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel day or night." Exodus 13:21

As you know, "The Bible" was initially a set of separate scrolls that were later combined into the Hebrew Bible. That was augmented by the various authors of the "books" that we now call the New Testament.

That said, the overwhelming majority of information about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and other Biblical topics was transmitted orally. The great majority of people were illiterate.

OK
And of course I know the above.
But do you think there was ever a time when some did not hear about God?
Did the whole world know about God somehow?
What does Romans 1:19-20 mean to you?

 

[GodsGrace]

They were slaves in Egypt and God freed them to become His chosen people. Moses and Aaron initially taught them about God, as did the prophets who followed after. Initially they had God lead them by the pillars of cloud and fire: "Now the Lord was going before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them in the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel day or night." Exodus 13:21

As you know, "The Bible" was initially a set of separate scrolls that were later combined into the Hebrew Bible. That was augmented by the various authors of the "books" that we now call the New Testament.

That said, the overwhelming majority of information about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and other Biblical topics was transmitted orally. The great majority of people were illiterate.

P.S.
I mean, the above is for the Hebrews, Israelites, Jews.
What about everyone else in the world that God had created?

 

[rogerg]

Please post the verse you're addressing.
In this case it's 2 Peter 1:1
I agree with another member that states we should be reading versions of the bible that are understandable.
Apparently you, and others, take a verse and make it mean whatever you want it to mean.
This is not how the N.T. is to be read.
I also wonder if your bible has notes by John Macarthur,,,but that is of no concern to me.

Here is what 2 Peter 1:1 means:

1 From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours. 2 May grace and peace be lavished on you as you grow in the rich knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!
NET

2 Peter 1:1: "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:"
NIV

2 Peter 1:1, NLT: "This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior."


God gives faith, through His righteousness, to those that believe in Him, by whatever method they have come to know the living God.
Perhaps by hearing the gospel of the good news of salvation by faith, or perhaps in a church sermon, or a testimony of someone.

How they received this faith is by believing in God.
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

And how does one get faith?
By seeing a Christian and liking their life.
By hearing the word of God.
By becoming curious about this religion.
By learning about it.
By accepting it and deciding to be a disciple of Jesus.
The person believes...God gives the faith.


I agree that God gives us peace.
What we do is that we are devoted to God...
And through the knowledge of God we receive grace and peace.
Just as 2 Peter 1:2 states.



Is there ever a time when we have to start doing something?


Verse 4 of 2 Peter 1 states that by the promises we might BECOME partakers of the divine nature.
Verse 5 says we are to have moral excellence, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, and love.

Sounds like something we must do...WE ARE TO HAVE...it does not say that we have already attained these qualities since they must increase....verse 8.

I'll just respond just to the last sentence you posted above: when someone becomes born-again they do not immediately embody nor receive a complete understanding or knowledge regarding things spiritual. Those who are born-again, become a partaker of the divine nature (in the earthly sense) as they are led into it over time by the Holy Spirit through the Bible.
Other than that, I'm going to make this easy, wondering. I believe everything you've posted is wrong. I believe this because you've based your faith and consequently your understanding upon the wrong foundation, which is works. And if by works it can't be by Christ.

[Rom 4:4 KJV]
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 

[Fastfredy0]

"...when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts..."
Romans 2:14-15

Perhaps you and wondering should speak to the administration about your gospel of salvation that differs from Paul's gospel and explain why Galatians 1:8 doesn't apply to you. Get them to update their current statement of belief that states: We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally. They can be saved through repentance, forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ's death (atonement) and resurrection. No human merit or performance earns salvation.

 

[JLB]

Don't see how you can get to that conclusion from that verse. It says "according to His mercy" ,

How else would you describe Jesus Christ being sent to die for our sins, except by His mercy?

 

[brightfame52]

Slander!
Are you going to sue me?
You just wrote:
"They are not written of me."

Let's just say that I know your speech pattern and your posts (in this thread) do NOT follow it.

Fastfredy0 also did not post sources when he was a new member. But he does so after being told the forum rules.

No harm in copying work of others,,,but the source must be noted.

Thanks.

Okay, since you have no proof, its slander. God sees this !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Perhaps you and @wondering should speak to the administration about your gospel of salvation that differs from Paul's gospel and explain why Galatians 1:8 doesn't apply to you.

Galatians 1:8 does apply to us. We know about Jesus and the gospel. And so there is only one way for us to be saved. It is the person who has no knowledge of Moses or Jesus that is condemned or acquitted at the coming of Christ based on what they knew through conscience and nature alone and how they responded to it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay, since you have no proof, its slander. God sees this !

God also sees how YOU portray His character.
Which is the OPPOSITE of how His character is.
I'd say, that since we're speaking of God, that's worse than slander.
I'd go so far as to say it's blasphemous to attribute sin and evil to God.

But,,,,I forgot!
God predestined everything EXCEPT sin and evil.
Just print that in the confession of faith and BINGO....it's done!

Yes.
God sees.

Oh. and the proof.
Read your normal posts and then read the ones that you add to the O.P.
Do YOU see a difference?
I do.

Just remember to list your source from now on.

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps you and wondering should speak to the administration about your gospel of salvation that differs from Paul's gospel and explain why Galatians 1:8 doesn't apply to you. Get them to update their current statement of belief that states: We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally. They can be saved through repentance, forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ's death (atonement) and resurrection. No human merit or performance earns salvation.

Calvinism presents a different gospel.
This forum's statement of faith does not need to be updated.
Your belief system needs to be updated and I've listed many reasons why....
but you prefer your theology books instead of the bible.
You prefer to make God be responsible for every step you take.

What's interesting is that you will not know until your time of death whether or not you
persevered in the faith and whether or not you are truly one of the lucky few that God chose to be saved.
This because God saved you totally on His own, and He can unsave you totally on His own....
I, OTOH, cling to Him and know that I am saved.

8. The expression of our Savior, “Many are called, but few are chosen,” (Mt. 22:14), is also very improperly interpreted (see Book 3, chap. 2, sec. 11, 12). There will be no ambiguity in it, if we attend to what our former remarks ought to have made clear—viz. that there are two species of calling: for there is an universal call, by which God, through the external preaching of the word, invites all men alike, even those for whom he designs the call to be a savor of death, and the ground of a severer condemnation. Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

Institutes of the Christian Religion, John Calvin
Book 3 Chapter 24 Paragraph 8


And this is an interesting paragraph too....

7. But it daily happens that those who seemed to belong to Christ revolt from him and fall away: Nay, in the very passage where he declares that none of those whom the Father has given to him have perished, he excepts the son of perdition. This, indeed, is true; but it is equally true that such persons never adhered to Christ with that heartfelt confidence by which I say that the certainty of our election is established: “They went out from us,” says John, “but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would, no doubt, have continued 2247with us,” (1 John 2:19). I deny not that they have signs of calling similar to those given to the elect; but I do not at all admit that they have that sure confirmation of election which I desire believers to seek from the word of the gospel. Wherefore, let not examples of this kind move us away from tranquil confidence in the promise of the Lord, when he declares that all by whom he is received in true faith have been given him by the Father, and that none of them, while he is their Guardian and Shepherd, will perish (John 3:16; 6:39).


Good luck trying to determine whether or not you have "true faith".

It is for no small reason that many Calvinists are not secure in their faith and have doubts as to really being saved.