The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[Fastfredy0]

One would think but oddly enough, wondering didn't accept that verse in prior posts.

Ah, imagine that.

She believes people today can be saved without knowing Christ, so anything is possible.

We are all blind to deficiencies in our doctrine ... I like to think we have fewer deficiencies. We have Calvinism built on works of 1000s of scholars and she has Wonderism.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not only is it a work, but solely and explicitly God's work to accomplish. If we think we have believed because of our decision, choice or volition, then we have also performed a work necessary for it. The acquiring of faith or belief is a work

[Jhn 6:29 KJV]
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

29 611 [e] 29 Apekrithē 29 Ἀπεκρίθη 29 Answered 29 V-AIP-3S​

3588 [e] ho ‹ὁ› - Art-NMS​

2424 [e] Iēsous Ἰησοῦς Jesus N-NMS​

2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj​

2036 [e] eipen εἶπεν said V-AIA-3S​

846 [e] autois αὐτοῖς , to them PPro-DM3P​

3778 [e] Touto Τοῦτό This DPro-NNS​

1510 [e] estin ἐστιν is V-PIA-3S​

3588 [e] to τὸ the Art-NNS​

2041 [e] ergon ἔργον work my insertion: 2041​ that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking N-NNS​

3588 [e] tou τοῦ - Art-GMS​

2316 [e] Theou Θεοῦ , of God N-GMS​

2443 [e] hina ἵνα that Conj​

4100 [e] pisteuēte πιστεύητε you should believe V-PSA-2P (my insertion: 4100: believe: to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in​

1519 [e] eis εἰς in Prep​

3739 [e] hon ὃν Him whom RelPro-AMS​

649 [e] apesteilen ἀπέστειλεν has sent V-AIA-3S​

1565 [e] ekeinos ἐκεῖνος . He DPro-NMS​

Again with John 6:29?
We've been through John 6:29 a few times now.
Can't you do any better than that?

My point is that it doesn't mean what you believe it to mean.
Posting some Greek words means very little if you don't understand the Greek language that was used
and if you don't understand HOW words were used.

The bible is a complete thought.
It's not a bunch of verses.

I asked you to show me, scripturally, how faith is a work when Paul makes it clear that it is not, and I showed you
scripturally how it is not a work.

This is one thing at a time.
HOW IS FAITH A WORK?
Please use scripture as I used to show you that it is not.

I'm not repeating John 6:29 since I am more tired than you are of posting explanations of verses that
calvinists do NOT understand because they come to the bible with preconceived ideas.

You were waiting for UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION. It's done and is here in theology.

 

[brightfame52]

Made of a women for who ?


Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The objects of redemption when Christ was made of a women, that is, when He was made Flesh and Blood, it was not for all of mankind, but for the seed of Abraham per Heb 2:14-16

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

His Flesh and Blood Identification, when made under the Law, born of a women [ The virgin birth] was limited to a certain segment of mankind, the seed of Abraham.

And this seed, was not limited to a certain segment of mankind, as the jews may have thought, but it consisted in all who would believe in Christ, jew or gentile Gal 3:2916

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So, Christ was made under the Law, born of a women, to Redeem the seed of Abraham, all those who should believe in Him through the Spirit of adoption !

Redemption secures unto Christ believers in Him [of the seed of Abraham], by the Working of the Spirit of Adoption !

 

[JLB]

No one can truly confess Jesus and believe in their heart UNTIL they have become born-again through God's work, not ours. It is a by-product, not a cause.

I gave you the scripture of how we are born again.

Obeying the truth, the Gospel message, through the Spirit.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
1 Peter 1:20-22

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

The Spirit empowers those who hear the Gospel, to obey.

One must hear the Gospel to receive this and faith.


Here is the process by which a person becomes saved, regenerated, born again, through the incorruptible seed of the word of God; the Gospel message.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:9-17

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
• And how shall they hear without a preacher?
• And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

• But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Your unbiblical theory of some other way of being saved, by-passes the biblical blueprint of salvation, to which a person is just somehow “born again” right out of thin air, magically, apart from ever hearing the Gospel, and confessing Jesus as Lord.



This is utter nonsense and is not found is scripture.






JLB

 

[rogerg]

Obeying the truth, the Gospel message, through the Spirit.

Agreed - obeying happens by/through the Spirit

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Agreed - emphasizing "power of God"

One must hear the Gospel to receive this and faith.

Agreed. But they must first have been given spiritual ears that can hear:

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

their eyes and ears had to be first blessed in order for them to see and hear

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Agreed. The important point is the part about the heart. Everything else flows from that
But... the human/natural heart is deceitfully wicked of itself:

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So to be able to believe with the heart, it first had to first be changed by God.

Your unbiblical theory of some other way of being saved, by-passes the biblical blueprint of salvation, to which a person is just somehow “born again” right out of thin air, magically, apart from ever hearing the Gospel, and confessing Jesus as Lord.



This is utter nonsense and is not found is scripture.

"this" ? what "this"? an understanding that one must be born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirt before any of the
rest can occur, instead of the reverse? Christ is the Savior, isn't He? Are you saying that our works are needed and what saves us because that's what you're left with if you believe the indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't do it. I think you may trust your works over your trust in God:

[Jhn 3:3 KJV]
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[Jhn 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

• But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

see "hearing" explained above.

 

[JLB]

Agreed. But they must first have been given spiritual ears that can hear:

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

their eyes and ears had to be first blessed in order for them to see and hear

The power to open the blind eyes to see, comes from the Spirit when, when a person hears the Gospel; it’s then that they receive faith.



Not before hand.

 

[JLB]

this" ? what "this"? an understanding that one must be born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirt before any of the
rest can occur, instead of the reverse?

No. What’s unbiblical is that a person is born again, saved first, then later on they believe the Gospel.


Believe results in being saved. Not saved results in believing.





JLB

 

[JLB]

this" ? what "this"? an understanding that one must be born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirt before any of the
rest can occur, instead of the reverse? Christ is the Savior, isn't He? Are you saying that our works are needed and what saves us because that's what you're left with if you believe the indwelling of the Holy Spirit doesn't do it. I think you may trust your works over your trust in God:

[Jhn 3:3 KJV]
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[Jhn 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Becoming born again, saved, regenerated is the result of hearing and believing the Gospel.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Your theory is backwards from scripture.



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

JLB

 

[rogerg]

Again with John 6:29?
We've been through John 6:29 a few times now.
Can't you do any better than that?

Actually John 6:29 is a perfect example. Nothing else is needed nor can add to it. I included the Greek so there
would be no doubt as to what it's informing us.

You don't get to exclude verses because you don't like them or because you say so

HOW IS FAITH A WORK?

Okay, once and for all, here it is:
It is a work because Christ had to successfully perform works to provide salvation for those He chose to save - the performance of those works were how He was faithful to the Father. If we believe that we give faith to ourselves, then we also have to perform like works to go with it - the two are inseparable
Were we to say that faith is a faith born of ourselves, then we would have to do what Christ did or it would be a dead faith, meaningless, or worse. Faith isn't just some theological perception or understanding that we might happen to come to- if it is a self-generated faith, it has to include works to bring it to life. However, should we be given Christ's faith, and from that come to trust completely in Him in all possible ways, then from Christ's faith, we would have also been imputed His works too.

Christ is the "man" in the below verse:

[Jas 2:18 KJV]
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[Jas 2:20, 26 KJV]
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? ...
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

My point is that it doesn't mean what you believe it to mean.

According to you, perhaps. I think otherwise, and that it does. It is as clear and indisputable as it could be

calvinists do NOT understand because they come to the bible with preconceived ideas.

I have never read anything by Calvin - I only read the Bible. Perhaps we have both come to the same conclusions because that is what the Bible says

 

[rogerg]

Believe results in being saved. Not saved results in believing.

If that's the case, then we save ourselves

 

[rogerg]

whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Yes, but the real question is how does one come to "believe in Him"? If we think we've caused it, then we
believe in ourselves and not Christ thereby becoming our own savior

 

[rogerg]

Your theory is backwards from scripture.

Don't think so - think yours is

 

[rogerg]

The power to open the blind eyes to see, comes from the Spirit when, when a person hears the Gospel; it’s then that they receive faith.

See my prior reply about hearing.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually John 6:29 is a perfect example. Nothing else is needed nor can add to it. I included the Greek so there
would be no doubt as to what it's informing us.

You don't get to exclude verses because you don't like them or because you say so

I don't exclude any verse.
Because I don't agree with you does not mean I'm wrong.
It's possible that perhaps you don't understand the entire concept of the N.T. very well.

In John 6:28 someone asked Jesus what they must do to do the works of God.
Jesus responded using those words and said: The work of God is to believe in the one whom He has sent.
They were asking what THEY had to do....The response was that what they had to do was just to believe...have faith.

As it turns out, even John Calvin does not agree with you or Fastfredy0 who has been following along.

Here is what John Calvin commented on John 6:29.


29. The work of God is this.

They had spoken of works Christ reminds them of one work, that is, faith; by which he means that all that men undertake without faith is vain and useless, but that faith alone is sufficient, because this alone does God require from us, that we believe

For there is here an implied contrast between faith and the works and efforts of men; as if he had said, Men toil to no purpose, when they endeavor to please God without faith, because, by running, as it were, out of the course, they do not advance towards the goal. This is a remarkable passage, showing that, though men torment themselves wretchedly throughout their whole life, still they lose their pains, if they have not faith in Christ as the rule of their life. Those who infer from this passage that faith is the gift of God are mistaken; for Christ does not now show what God produces in us, but what he wishes and requires from us.

souce: John Calvin's Commentary Biblehub John 6:29

Please notice two teachings in the above:

1. As I noted in a previous post regarding the fact that faith is not a work...Calvin himself states that faith and works are CONTRASTED....they are opposite so that we cannot say that faith is a work.

2. Those who infer from John 6:29 that faith is a gift of God are MISTAKEN...FOR CHRIST DOES NOT NOW SHOW WHAT GOD PRODUCES IN US...
BUT WHAT HE WISHES AND REQUIRES FROM US.

Okay, once and for all, here it is:
It is a work because Christ had to successfully perform works to provide salvation for those He chose to save - the performance of those works were how He was faithful to the Father. If we believe that we give faith to ourselves, then we also have to perform like works to go with it - the two are inseparable
Were we to say that faith is a faith born of ourselves, then we would have to do what Christ did or it would be a dead faith, meaningless, or worse. Faith isn't just some theological perception or understanding that we might happen to come to- if it is a self-generated faith, it has to include works to bring it to life. However, should we be given Christ's faith, and from that come to trust completely in Him in all possible ways, then from Christ's faith, we would have also been imputed His works too.

You're correct.
Faith needs works to bring it to life.
This does NOT mean that faith is a work - which is what we're discussing.
It just means that faith WITHOUT WORKS is a dead faith, exactly as James stated.

But where are the verses that state that faith IS A WORK?
There are none.

If John 6:29 is the only verse you can post, it means this doctrine cannot be true.
No doctrine is based on one verse.

Christ is the "man" in the below verse:

[Jas 2:18 KJV]
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[Jas 2:20, 26 KJV]
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? ...
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James 2:18 is referring to Jesus?
You mean, it's necessary for Jesus to prove that He has faith???
And maybe Jesus has faith without works???

This is unbiblical and is incredibly incorrect.

Please show, using scripture, how James 2:18 is referring to Jesus.

According to you, perhaps. I think otherwise, and that it does. It is as clear and indisputable as it could be

I have never read anything by Calvin - I only read the Bible. Perhaps we have both come to the same conclusions because that is what the Bible says

As you've often said to me...
Because YOU have a particular understanding of a verse, does not make it so.

Again, the bible is not composed of verses, but of ideas that must be compatible with each other.

And nothing is "according to me".....
Here is another teaching of Paul that shows that faith is not a work because faith is contrasted with works....
and we thus cannot boast, as if it were by works, just as is stated in
Ephesians 2:9
9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.


FAITH CONTRASTED WITH WORKS

Romans 3:21-27 NLT
21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[i] and the prophets long ago.
22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
24 Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.
25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith.

 

[rogerg]

In John 6:28 someone asked Jesus what they must do to do the works of God.
Jesus responded using those words and said: The work of God is to believe in the one whom He has sent.
They were asking what THEY had to do....The response was that what they had to do was just to believe...have faith.

Wait -- the verse says "this is the work of God" (KJV). I already posted the Greek. But, even looking at your translation, we can see that Jesus was in effect telling them that there was NOTHING they could do - it is all the work of God. From your version you posted: "the work of God is to believe". In that case, those who truly do believe, do so through the work of God.

As it turns out, even John Calvin does not agree with you or @Fastfredy0 who has been following along.

I don't care what John Calvin, or anyone else for that matter, says regarding biblical interpretation, and I appreciate it if you'd stop implying that I do.
I am able to (and do) read it on my own

But where are the verses that state that faith IS A WORK?
There are none.

If John 6:29 is the only verse you can post, it means this doctrine cannot be true.
No doctrine is based on one verse.

What does "faith without works is dead " mean? The two are part of each other
There isn't just one verse. If we were to believe the acquiring of faith originates from within ourselves, then we would have to perform the same works He did too.

James 2:18 is referring to Jesus?
You mean, it's necessary for Jesus to prove that He has faith???
And maybe Jesus has faith without works???

I don't understand your point. That Bible verse is not proving that Christ had faith, it is demonstrating the two (faith and works) are one. God ,through James, is illuminating a spiritual point: that Christ, and Christ alone, was the only person ever in mankind, to have perfect faith which His works were a part of - perfect to the degree that God the Father accepted and was pleased by it. If we want to boast that our faith is from ourselves, then we'd better have the necessary works to go along with it - which of course, would be completely impossible.

Ephesians 2:9
9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Sorry but that doesn't fit a all. To what does that apply relative to our posts?

FAITH CONTRASTED WITH WORKS

Did I ever say anything about us keeping the requirements of law? Far from it. I have only said (repeatedly) that Christ is the Savior and He has done everything necessary for salvation on behalf of the Elect. There is nothing left for anyone to do or be able contribute to it, including the supposed self-generation of one's faith.
Once again, I don't know where you get this from?














.

 

[brightfame52]

In being made of a woman and made under law, He took on the seed of Abraham and not the seed of mankind in general, for all mankind is not the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now in taking on the seed of Abraham, Paul says that He was made sin for us !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Who are the us in 2 Cor 5:21 that Paul is referring to ? Is it all mankind without exception ? No it is not. Let us examine the scripture to find the answer. " When the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His own Son [meaning He was God's Son before Mary's Son], made of a women, made under the law, to redeem [ not to make redemption possible] them [ His members, His body] that were under the Law [Limited redemption]that [in order that] they may receive the adoption of Sons.

Now coming as such [ under the law] He came and took upon Him the seed of Abraham. The seed of Abraham is a chosen people !

Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

So its plain that He came and Identified with and to redeem a Chosen People, and not the whole world of mankind.

In taking on the seed of Abraham, He took on all their Transgressions, and died for their sins !

Isa 53:4-11

4 Surely he hath borne our [seed of Abraham] griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed [The seed of Abraham], he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many [The seed of Abraham]; for he shall bear their [The seed of Abraham] iniquities.

1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our [The seed of Abraham] sins according to the scriptures;

Yes, in all places above where we see the pronouns our, us, we, their, it refers to the Seed of Abraham !

Lets not forget it is written that He took on the seed of Abraham Heb 2:1618

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[JLB]

In being made of a woman and made under law, He took on the seed of Abraham and not the seed of mankind in general, for all mankind is not the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now in taking on the seed of Abraham, Paul says that He was made sin for us !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Who are the us in 2 Cor 5:21 that Paul is referring to ? Is it all mankind without exception ? No it is not. Let us examine the scripture to find the answer. " When the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His own Son [meaning He was God's Son before Mary's Son], made of a women, made under the law, to redeem [ not to make redemption possible] them [ His members, His body] that were under the Law [Limited redemption]that [in order that] they may receive the adoption of Sons.

Now coming as such [ under the law] He came and took upon Him the seed of Abraham. The seed of Abraham is a chosen people !

Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

So its plain that He came and Identified with and to redeem a Chosen People, and not the whole world of mankind.

In taking on the seed of Abraham, He took on all their Transgressions, and died for their sins !

Isa 53:4-11

4 Surely he hath borne our [seed of Abraham] griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed [The seed of Abraham], he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many [The seed of Abraham]; for he shall bear their [The seed of Abraham] iniquities.

1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our [The seed of Abraham] sins according to the scriptures;

Yes, in all places above where we see the pronouns our, us, we, their, it refers to the Seed of Abraham !

Lets not forget it is written that He took on the seed of Abraham Heb 2:1618

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

This passage in Hebrews 2 which pertains to verse 16, is simply teaching us that Christ became flesh, took on flesh, that He can be a merciful and faithful High Priest, having been tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.

Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. Hebrews 2:14-18

• Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

JLB

 

[brightfame52]

This passage in Hebrews 2 which pertains to verse 16, is simply teaching us that Christ became flesh, took on flesh, that He can be a merciful and faithful High Priest, having been tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.

Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. Hebrews 2:14-18

• Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

JLB

Did you understand the post points ? I know about Heb 2:16

 

[JLB]

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Who are the us in 2 Cor 5:21 that Paul is referring to ? Is it all mankind without exception ? No it is not. Let us examine the scripture to find the answer. " When the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His own Son [meaning He was God's Son before Mary's Son], made of a women, made under the law, to redeem [ not to make redemption possible] them [ His members, His body] that were under the Law [Limited redemption]that [in order that] they may receive the adoption of Sons.

Did you understand the post points ? I know about Heb 2:16

I see you adding to God’s word in an attempt to twist it to align with your false doctrine that teaches Christ only died for the elect, and not the whole world.

For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

By adding “the seed of Abraham” to this verse you are creating the impression that He became sin for just the elect, and not for the world.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

• He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16




JLB

 

[JLB]

[ACMP=warning]

Did you understand the post points ? I know about Heb 2:16

Yes I understand your point is to convey the idea that Jesus only died and shed His blood for the elect, and not everyone in the world.

By adding “the seed of Abraham” to the scripture your intent is to convey this unbiblical concept.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now let’s read the actual passage with the context.


Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:18-21


As we can see from the context, Jesus Christ became sin for the world, that the world would be reconciled to God.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16



Do not continue to promote your unbiblical theories in our Community.


Failure to comply could result in your privileges being suspended.








JLB

[/ACMP]