What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

JLB said:
The world of lost souls that are under the domain of the devil.
Click to expand...
Yes, and that would be this current world. The Bible identifies only two worlds: this current world and the world to come. Which one do you think it is?
 
rogerg said:
If you have to do something in order to have it, then it ain't grace.
Click to expand...

False.

We must believe and therefore obey the Gospel command to repent.

Grace empowers us to obey. It is obeying the truth by the Spirit.




JLB
 
rogerg said:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Click to expand...


Yes. Amen.

Justified by grace.

Do you understand how a person is justified?

rogerg said:
One of those is the receiving of a renewed mind by the Holy Spirit:
Click to expand...

Yes, the renewing of the mind and restoration of our souls comes after a person is born again; saved, regenerated.


It’s a process, that involves our cooperation, just like salvation.




JLB
 
JLB said:
False.

We must believe and therefore obey the Gospel command to repent.

Grace empowers us to obey. It is obeying the truth by the Spirit.
Click to expand...
A person cannot exhibit an attribute of salvation until they become saved. One's faith is an attribute of salvation. Salvation is not an attribute of one's faith. When someone is saved and born again, from that point onward, their faith begins and continues to grow.
 
rogerg said:
Hi brightfame52,
Yes, I agree with that but ... I believe Christ's offering removed the Elect from under the jurisdiction of law of sin and death. This law was brought by Adam's and Eve's transgression and placed all mankind under it curse. So, this law therefore, is what Christ's offering had to negate, since it is what allowed sin to be imputed to mankind in the first place. For those to whom the law was negated, all sin caused by, or related to it, ceased to exist. For the Elect, there is no longer judgment for them because there is no longer any law by which judgment could be levied. If the law of sin and death is eliminated, its curse is also eliminated. Hope that makes sense.
But maybe we're saying the same thing.
Click to expand...
1. Who are the elect and how do they get to be that way?

2. Is it Adam that caused the fall, Eve, or both?

3. How do you know Adam's sin was imputed to mankind? Do you believe in infant baptism?

4. Doesn't John 5:28 state there will be judgement for everyone?
 
wondering said:
Who are the elect and how do they get to be that way?
Click to expand...
They are those whom God chose for salvation. Their names have been written into the Lamb's book of life.

wondering said:
Is it Adam that caused the fall, Eve, or both?
Click to expand...
God held Adam responsible for it because he wasn't deceived. Adam shouldn't have followed Eve's direction.

wondering said:
3. How do you know Adam's sin was imputed to mankind? Do you believe in infant baptism?
Click to expand...
[1Co 15:21 KJV]
21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
[Rom 5:14 KJV]
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[Rom 5:15 KJV]
15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

No I don't believe in infant baptism. I believe everyone is saved on the same basis: their names have been written into the Lamb's book of life by God and for no other reason. As far as I can determine from the Bible (so far), it doesn't seem to explain why God chose one person over the other to write their name into the book - other than He just chose to do so. And any works of law or righteousness we may do would not be a reason for it

wondering said:
Doesn't John 5:28 state there will be judgement for everyone?
Click to expand...
I don't find judgment mentioned in the verse you supplied... but Christ's righteousness has been imputed to those whom He has chosen to salvation so it is as if they were the righteous ones and Christ was the sinner.
 
Last edited:
More on the Accomplishments !

Jesus blood shed was in order to sanctify the people, those people he shed His blood for Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Those Jesus Christ died for, it ensures them, the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit and the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

He prays for this very blessing right here Jn 17:19,209

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. [ see Heb 13:12]

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

This applies to all future believers, for Jesus says which shall believe !

Thats a promise that they shall believe, because of the sanctifying work of the Holy Ghost in them.

All this by the blood of Christ, what He accomplished !
 
Quantrill said:
I agree with most of what you say. I just don't see the reason for the demand that the atonement was limited to only the elect.

What is that 'demand' based on?

Quantrill
Click to expand...
Im explaining my view now. Everyone doesnt experience the accomplished effects of the atonement, so its limited to the ones that do, the Elect !
 
rogerg said:
Where in the Bible did you find that?
Click to expand...


  • And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


It’s the message of the New Testament, and it starts here.


  • For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

If you are of the world, then you need salvation because you belong to Satan, as he is your lord.


People of the world are lost and need a Savior, one who can save their souls from perishing, because they are captives, or prisoners of the devil. The world is the enemy of God’s kingdom; the world serves Satan.


  • Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.


Those in the world, who are perishing, who need eternal life, God sent His Son to die for their sins, to shed His blood that these souls who are in the world and are lost and without hope, would have salvation; who be delivered, would be rescued out of the domain of darkness, into the kingdom of God.

Thats Good News.


  • He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
    Colossians 1:13-14



We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. 1 John 5:19







JLB
 
JLB said:
  • And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


It’s the message of the New Testament, and it starts here.


  • For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

If you are of the world, then you need salvation because you belong to Satan, as he is your lord.


People of the world are lost and need a Savior, one who can save their souls from perishing, because they are captives, or prisoners of the devil. The world is the enemy of God’s kingdom; the world serves Satan.


  • Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.


Those in the world, who are perishing, who need eternal life, God sent His Son to die for their sins, to shed His blood that these souls who are in the world and are lost and without hope, would have salvation; who be delivered, would be rescued out of the domain of darkness, into the kingdom of God.

Thats Good News.


  • He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
    Colossians 1:13-14



We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. 1 John 5:19







JLB
Click to expand...
Well, that's the question isn't it -- which world is Jesus the Savior of? This current world? No, that can't be the case as it is going to be destroyed -Jesus can't be the savior of what is to be destroyed (otherwise Jesus would have failed)- were that true somehow, it would be a logical contradiction and an impossibility where God is concerned. How can a world saved by God Himself be destroyed by God Himself? Remember, Jesus refused to pray for this current world and Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world. The world to come however is eternal, without sin, and where He will reside throughout eternity with His Elect. So, which world is it?
 
rogerg said:
Well, that's the question isn't it -- which world is Jesus the Savior of? This current world? No, that can't be the case as it is going to be destroyed -Jesus can't be the savior of what is to be destroyed (otherwise Jesus would have failed)- were that true somehow, it would be a logical contradiction and an impossibility where God is concerned. How can a world saved by God Himself be destroyed by God Himself? Remember, Jesus refused to pray for this current world and Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world. The world to come however is eternal, without sin, and where He will reside throughout eternity with His Elect. So, which world is it?
Click to expand...

Why don't you try reading about Noah and the flood? God decided to destroy all life except for Noah, his relatives, and representative pairs of each species.

Genesis 6:17, "I am about to bring flood waters on the earth to destroy from under the sky all the living creatures that have the breath of life in them. Everything that is on the earth will die,
 
jaybo said:
Why don't you try reading about Noah and the flood? God decided to destroy all life except for Noah, his relatives, and representative pairs of each species.
Click to expand...
I don't understand the point you are making. Please clarify.
 
rogerg said:
I don't understand the point you are making. Please clarify.
Click to expand...
You wrote, "How can a world saved by God Himself be destroyed by God Himself?" The answer is demonstrated in the time of Noah, when God destroyed all life except Noah, his family, and the pairs of animals He chose to continue after all other life had been destroyed.
 
jaybo said:
You wrote, "How can a world saved by God Himself be destroyed by God Himself?" The answer is demonstrated in the time of Noah, when God destroyed all life except Noah, his family, and the pairs of animals He chose to continue after all other life had been destroyed.
Click to expand...
Okay thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top