I mean like if Jesus's was not successful in/with His offering (theoretically speaking), there
would not be a future world that did not need saving.
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The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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would not be a future world that did not need saving.
What is the penalty/outcome of relying on Works of ones salvation ....
Galatians 3:10 For all who depend on the Law [seeking justification and salvation by obedience to the Law and the observance of rituals] are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed (condemned to destruction) is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, so as to practice them.” 11 Now it is clear that no one is justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing] before God by the Law, for “The righteous (the just, the upright) shall live by faith.” 12 But the Law does not rest on or require faith [it has nothing to do with faith], but [instead, the Law] says, “He who practices them [the things prescribed by the Law] shall live by them [instead of faith].” AMP
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Galatians 5:2-3
John Wesley Commentary
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.Therefore Christ is become of no effect to you - Who seek to be justified by the law. Ye are fallen from grace - Ye renounce the new covenant. Ye disclaim the benefit of this gracious dispensation.
Tom Constable Commentary Gal. 5:2-4
The legalists appear to have been claiming that circumcision was a necessary step in the process by which people become acceptable to God. These steps from their viewpoint were faith in Christ, reception of the Spirit, and circumcision of the flesh. Paul argued that anyone who submits to circumcision to gain acceptance with God really believes in salvation by law-keeping. If one believes in law-keeping for salvation, he must keep the whole Law, not just the requirement of circumcision. That is impossible for sinners to do. Rather than gaining acceptance with God, circumcision would be what separated them from Christ.
John MacArthur Gal. 5:4
A third consequence of seeking to be justified by circumcision or any other form of the law, is that it causes a person to become severed from Christ and thereby become fallen from grace. Severed is from katarge image (Image) , which, when followed by the preposition, means to be separated or loosed from (cf. Rom. 7:2, 6). Fallen is from ehpipt image (Image) , which means to lose one’s grasp on something. Simply stated, a person cannot live by both law and grace. To attempt to be justified by law is to reject the way of grace.
Bridgeway Bible Commentary Gal. 5:2-4
If circumcision is necessary for salvation, Christ is of no use. Also, those who want to keep the law about circumcision must keep the whole law. They cannot choose one command and ignore others to suit themselves. If they try to find salvation through law-keeping, they cut themselves off from the salvation that comes from Christ through God’s graceV. Chueng Gal. 5:4
Now since those who rely on the works of law must "live by them," and since they can never achieve perfect obedience to the law, all those who seek justification in this matter are doomed to eternal condemnation. Since the way of faith is the way of reliance on Christ for salvation, those who rely on observing the law instead are cut off from faith, and cut off from Christ(Galatians 5:4).
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Almost missed this!
You say the elect are those chosen by God for salvation.
1. Where is this verse/scripture that states that God chose those that will be saved?
2. It seems names can be erased from The Book of Life,
Revelation 3:5
. 5‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
The above states that he who OVERCOMES will not be erased...which means that a person CAN be erased from the Book of Life...
and ONLY if the person OVERCOMES will Jesus confess his name before the Father and His angels. Seems very clear.
I'd also direct you to Revelation 20:12 which states that persons will be judged by their deeds...which were written in the books.
Sounds important to me.
God held Adam responsible because God made the Covenant with Adam, not with Eve.
I was asking you how you know that Adam's sin is IMPUTED to man....
You posted 1 Co 15:21
By one man came death and by one man came the resurrection.
Death came by Adam....this means that death is an effect of Adam's sin.
Where does it state we are IMPUTED with Adam's sin?
You posted Romans 5:14
This states clearly that man did not die because of HIS OWN SINS, since man himself had never disobeyed God's special law against eating the forbidden fruit.
It definitely does not state that Adam's sin was IMPUTED to us.
You posted Romans 5:15
Through the offense many died, but through Christ grace has abounded to many.
Where does this state that Adam's sin was IMPUTED to us?
Adam's sin was NOT imputed to us.
We only suffer the consequences of his sin.
If you believe that we are IMPUTED with Adam's sin, as your hero Augustine taught, then you had better believe in infant baptism for the removal of that sin or the baby would be bound for hell if he died.
We have already discussed the Book of Life and how names can be blotted out of it if we do not overcome.
The bible DOES explain why God will choose those that are saved...
John 3:16 Whoever believes on the name of the Lord will be saved.
As the jailor in Acts stated...believe on the Lord and you will be saved.
As Jesus said...He knocks on the door (Rev 3:20), He will sup with whoever opens the door.
As to works...yes, we are required to do good deeds/works.
Please read Jesus' words and Paul and James and Peter...etc.
They all agree on this.
You don't find judgement in this passage?
And where does it say Christ's righteousness has been imputed to those that are saved? (although it has, but it does not state that here and I worry that you read into verses).
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
I hope I do - the good deed being the sharing of the Gospel of Christ. I do this because we have been so directed in the Bible - and which I thoroughly enjoy doing. But.. in no way do I consider it a requirement for, the cause of, or a sustaining of, salvation. I believe it a byproduct, or result of salvation which starts out and ends up as fully complete in itself. That is, salvation occurs first through God's grace and everything else flows from that. Why?
So it seems to me that you are implying agreement with me ? Is that correct?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Who said Jesus was not successful?
Did He not do what He was sent to earth to do?
Did He not redeem the human race?
Adam sold us to satan...
Jesus bought us back.
Not only the saved,,,,but everyone...
Just like everyone was sold to satan.
Jesus is the mediator for all mankind/men.
1 John 2:2 tells us Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
1 Timothy 3-6
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
I vigorously agree. The penalty for the belief in salvation by works is severe. I would be worried if I held that belief.
Revelation 20:15;
"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
It seems to me there will be a judgment in the end, not yesterday, not today, but in the end.
It is ludicrous to think otherwise.
"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
It seems to me there will be a judgment in the end, not yesterday, not today, but in the end.
It is ludicrous to think otherwise.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Because I believe we Christians are being fed a lie and that we depend too much on what Jesus did and not enough on what WE are supposed to do.
It certainly is a requirement AFTER one has become born again.
Jesus tells us that the lawless will not make it to heaven.
Matthew 7:23
Jesus tells us that those that hear His words but do not heed them will be like the foolish man
who built his house upon the sand and when the rains descended, the house fell.
Matthew 7:26-27
Jesus tells us how to behave toward others...
Matthew 25:35-46 and those that did not do to others will go to eternal punishment.
Do the above sound like a request?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Works do not save you...
only faith saves you.
But works are required after salvation.
Let's be clear about this since there is much misunderstanding about it.
Our works DO guarantee eternal salvation.
There is no verse in the N.T. said by Jesus whereby He claims that if we only believe in Him,,,we will be saved.
He taught obedience to His teachings.
Jesus Christ did indeed die for everyone. John 3:16-17, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. "
You should buy another Bible!
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You didn't even understand what I wrote.
Your mind is closed to any new revelation or idea or concept or biblical truth.
Please do not reply back to me what I did not say since others may misunderstand my position.
I NEVER deny that Christ's death saves EVERYONE that wishes to take advantage of it
BECAUSE HE DIED FOR EVERYONE.
Since you seem incapable of understanding that Jesus died for ALL MANKIND just like Adam sinned for ALL MANKIND...
then maybe you could just tell me what the following means:
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 11:28-30, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry.”
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
The penalty for obeying Jesus would be severe??
Some of us are reading a different gospel.....
One is saved by faith, never by works. Ephesians 12:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Right.
Jesus said to obey His commandments...
and His commandments are not burdensome...
Our love for God makes us obey...and we should not be afraid to say that we have to obey God.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Agreed. I believe I've posted this.
Luke 7:50;
"Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Where are the good works?
We are motivated by the Holy Spirit to behave according to God's wishes, summed up in "love your neighbor as yourself". We are free from any and all obligations to try to please God by our behavior, since we are loved by Him as His adopted children.
According to you, what must we do to "obey God"?