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Bible Study The authority of the law: Romans 7

The Foundation of God's Mercy expressed in Christ demands the need of Mercy.

That need of His Mercy is based on the reality of sin and the attendant guilty position in which to be "saved from."

Isaiah 16:5

And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Hebrews 4:16

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The Law shows us the reality of sin in the flesh, and hence our "need" in the present time of both His Mercy and Grace.

His Mercy and Grace are not extended to the devil and his messengers nor will they receive any.
 
So because i sin the devil is in me?
Far be it from me to instill honesty about sin in connection to the devil with a believer. I do know that at least one of the parties to the equations is a liar in any case of observations, so it's kind of a moot point. 1 John 1:8/1 John 3:8 speak for themselves.
 
Jesus said i didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. We don't live under the law anymore. Do you like living condemned?. Do you somehow think you are perfect? Actually you remind me of Sylvester Stallones version of Judge Dredd. Mr I am the law.
 
I'm not engaging in personal fantasies from others about what I posted. Sorry.
I'm just responding to what you posted. According to what you say that is how it is to be. Unless i misunderstand which you haven't actually said. I'm seriously not trying to upset you push you or instigate. I'm trying to understand. And i don't use a bunch of words i just call things how I see them. Teach me or don't. Your call.
 
I believe the enemy can do no more to me than he did to Jesus in the wilderness. He can tempt but he cannot cause. He is also not in me or he would be able to hear my thoughts which he cannot only my reaction to his temptations. To say The devil is inside of us causing us to do things is preposterous. It is however possible I don't understand what you mean still as I already mentioned your post seemed like a riddle to me.

It is a riddle and a hard one to learn to understand. This subject has many sides and if you do not try to look at all the truth it can ger very confusing. I do not claim to know all that is here but I have studies this a long time. I wrote an article "Two Roads out of Time and into Eternity" It is on my blog. If you will prayerfully read this and try to put all the ideas together I pray you can see some of the HISTORY, BIBLE and THEOLOGY behind this Important study.
The LAW did not make sin or make us to sin, Paul said by the LAW I know what sin is.
IN CHRIST by God's GRACE and our faith we are set free from sin. ROMANS 8;1&2
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

A Christian is not a Repentant Sinner. A Christian is in Christ! In Christ we are “Indwelled by the Holy Spirit”, Adopted into the family of God, Adopted as Children of God, Heirs of God, Joint heirs with Christ. Old things are passed away ALL things are become new. We are the temple of God indwelled by the Holy Spirit we are Priest of the Most High God with Jesus as Our High Priest. We are a Royal Priest hood and will rule with Christ in Eternity.

Now I Call that VICTORY!! Please do not let Satan steal it!!
 
It is a riddle and a hard one to learn to understand. This subject has many sides and if you do not try to look at all the truth it can ger very confusing. I do not claim to know all that is here but I have studies this a long time. I wrote an article "Two Roads out of Time and into Eternity" It is on my blog. If you will prayerfully read this and try to put all the ideas together I pray you can see some of the HISTORY, BIBLE and THEOLOGY behind this Important study.
The LAW did not make sin or make us to sin, Paul said by the LAW I know what sin is.
IN CHRIST by God's GRACE and our faith we are set free from sin. ROMANS 8;1&2
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

A Christian is not a Repentant Sinner. A Christian is in Christ! In Christ we are “Indwelled by the Holy Spirit”, Adopted into the family of God, Adopted as Children of God, Heirs of God, Joint heirs with Christ. Old things are passed away ALL things are become new. We are the temple of God indwelled by the Holy Spirit we are Priest of the Most High God with Jesus as Our High Priest. We are a Royal Priest hood and will rule with Christ in Eternity.

Now I Call that VICTORY!! Please do not let Satan steal it!!
So according to what you wrote here and for the record i agree with Satan cannot be in us because light and darkness cannot occupy the same space. Satan himself sinned and showed mankind what sin is while in the garden. So sin is known to us because of the tempter. Not because he is in us. Jesus is in us not the enemy. However that doesn't make us immune to sin. But more resistant. Is that correct?
 
So according to what you wrote here and for the record i agree with Satan cannot be in us because light and darkness cannot occupy the same space.
Yes!
Satan can never be "IN US". He goes about to deceive and accuse. In us would be demon possession, another subject all together.
The important point is that in Christ we can over come chose not to sin. I did not say sinless More like justified innocent IN CHRIST.
 
His ownership of us, his dominion has ended. He is dead to us, and we to him, like a deceased husband who can't rule over us anymore. Romans 6 is all about reckoning that as truth, so that by faith we say 'you're dead, buster, you no longer own me. I'm no longer obligated by the law to obey you' when the temptation to sin comes. Here's what Douglas was pointing out...

17 ...thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms (slave/master, wife/husband) because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification." (Romans 6:15-19 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

As Douglas is pointing out, getting a visual through the illustration of natural marriage helps us understand and believe the truth that the sin nature has been removed from his place as husband and master over us and we are now free to obey the dictates of our new husband and master Jesus Christ, who conceives in us the fruit of righteousness in his image according to his seed.
Jethro,

I agree with you and then I come to the part where you seem to say that we've been freed from sin.
I still say we've been freed from the Law.

You say the law is only a curse in that it exposes and magnifies mankind's sin. Mathew 7:9 says that once Paul was living without the law, then the commandment (law) came, sin sprang to life and he died. So sin made Paul "die", because the commandment, or law came. It's the law we're married to - it's the law that makes us know sin and let's us be guilty, it's the law that made Paul die.

So now we are dead to the law. Because Jesus is our righteousness. He took all the laws upon Himself so that we would no longer be responsible for following them. It's the Law we were married to and it's the Law that died on that cross with Him. Did the gentiles have to be circumcised? No. Because they didn't have to follow the law. Could they eat meat sacrificed to gods? Yes. Because they were no longer under the law.

Galatians 5:2 "If you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." Paul says there is liberty now because Christ has made us free. He says that if man is circumcised he is to keep the whole law. Because if we are jusfified by the law (verse 4) we are fallen from grace and will have to keep ALL of the law. This is impossible. As you know, the Jews tried this with the 10 Commandments and failed. Galatians goes on to say that in Jesus only faith works. If we live under the law we will be judged by the law and if we live under grace we shall be judged by grace. If we're NOT to live under the Law, it means the Law was put to death.

Philippians 1:6 The Holy Spirit has STARTED a good work in us and will CONTINUE in it until the day of Jesus Christ. (the end of the world). If the H. S. is continuing a good work it means it has not finished, it means we are still in need of help, it means we are still able to sin. If sin was our husband and it was put to death, we'd no longer be sinning.

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. Also, why confess sins if we no longer sin?

James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings? They come from the heart because we still have the sin nature in us. The sin nature will never die but because of Jesus' sacrifice it can be controlled to a large degree. The N.T. come in here, but I'll wait on that like you said.

Am I on the wrong track? Have I misunderstood? You ARE saying that the SIN NATURE dies and thus we don't sin anymore, right? I just can't wrap my brain around that. I got upset with my husband 10 minutes ago because the TV was too loud. I think that's a sin... How imperfect we are.

Wondering
 
I'm just responding to what you posted. According to what you say that is how it is to be. Unless i misunderstand which you haven't actually said. I'm seriously not trying to upset you push you or instigate. I'm trying to understand. And i don't use a bunch of words i just call things how I see them. Teach me or don't. Your call.
I've seen a substantial number of strange things happen with believers when it's pointed out that the law empowers sin, that we are all sinners and that sin is of the devil.

The scriptures point out how our adversaries operate. We should learn to pay more attention.
 
Yes!
Satan can never be "IN US". He goes about to deceive and accuse. In us would be demon possession, another subject all together.
The important point is that in Christ we can over come chose not to sin. I did not say sinless More like justified innocent IN CHRIST.
Paul would disagree with that assessment. 2 Cor. 12:7. Paul didn't even get Satan in his flesh like Peter did or like Judas did. Just a sub-Satan-messenger.

We might realize that IF Mark 4:15 does happen, and yes, it does, it happens internally in the form of temptation i.e. evil thoughts.

It is thereIN that the reality of that encounter is engaged with our adversary, just as Mark 4:15 shows and that is prompted by the Law itself. The Law, Gods Words, prompt the resistance of Satan to transpire in man and yes, also in believers.
 
Paul would disagree with that assessment. 2 Cor. 12:7. Paul didn't even get Satan in his flesh like Peter did or like Judas did. Just a sub-Satan-messenger.

We might realize that IF Mark 4:15 does happen, and yes, it does, it happens internally in the form of temptation i.e. evil thoughts.

It is thereIN that the reality of that encounter is engaged with our adversary, just as Mark 4:15 shows and that is prompted by the Law itself. The Law, Gods Words, prompt the resistance of Satan to transpire in man and yes, also in believers.
Smaller,
I think RevSRE is right. He's saying satan cannot be IN us. Satan and the Holy Spirit cannot live in the same space. If satan was IN us it would be possession, like he says. If we have the Holy Spirit abiding in us, then satan cannot also be there. I think this is what he's saying.

2 Corinthians 12:7 is speaking of the thorn in the flesh that was given to Paul. It's pretty well certain that the thorn was a physical ailment of some type. Which, of course, is also attributable to the evil one. This does not mean he was possessed.

As for Mark 4:15, it says the word that was sown was taken away from them by satan, it doesn't say satan is in them, but only that he took away what was given to the persons (the word).

Would you agree?

Wondering
 
Smaller,
I think RevSRE is right. He's saying satan cannot be IN us. Satan and the Holy Spirit cannot live in the same space. If satan was IN us it would be possession, like he says.
Would you agree?
Wondering

Uh, no. It isn't a question about "possession." Never was. Believers however have that thought instantly spring into their mind for some odd reason. Maybe too much Hollywood movies and not enough Bible.

Paul tells us quite explicitly what happens where the Word is sown (Mark 4:15) in painstaking detail in Romans 7, the best primer on the subject. And it's no Hollywood movie, but a reality for everyone, particularly believers.

In Romans 7 Paul lays out the fact that where the Law, in the case of Romans 7 the law against coveting or lust is sown.

What then happens? Every form of concupiscence arrived in Paul's mind. Concupiscence is "sexual" immorality. The sin essentially began for Paul just as it does for everyone, in their thoughts/mind. Romans 7:7-13.

This fact shows us, personally, that what Jesus said about the Law, yes, the Law in Mark 4:15 is true. And it's true enough for everyone to "test" it out themselves, perfectly, to derive an honest conclusion. Or, conversely, to be turned into liars.

That's where it lands. People are either honest about it or they aren't. It's that simple.

Jesus was also just as explicit, if not moreso when pointing out the fact that evil thoughts do defile us. Same principle.

And this internal evil defiling is courtesy of the Law, proving beyond any doubt that all have sin as a present tense occupation of the flesh. Sin is a reality and it's a reality of the flesh in which it abides. Romans 7 again proves this to any honest person. Sin indwells the flesh. Sin is aroused and empowered by the Law.

Paul determined from all of that that evil was present with him at all times. Romans 7:21. And that indwelling sin in his flesh was not and could never be "legally obedient." Romans 7:25. This is the basis for the entirety of the Gospel of salvation by Grace Alone.

Mark 4:15 shows us that Satan is also moved into action by the Law (where God's Words are sown) an is so into the hearts of people.

The conclusion is then quite obvious. That the Law prompts Satan into resistance and empowerment. And we should not see ourselves as "alone" in matters of sin. The tempter (or his seed) is also quite internally involved in the equations of the deceptions of sin. There is no getting around this fact.

If believers want to understand the Law, they might be well served to recognize the principles involved. IN scripture there are always TWO parties to the equations of sin. The person, and the devil/his messengers. There is no such animal in scripture as "just an individual person" other than God Himself in the flesh.

Scripture does present that ALL of mankind are captives of sin indwelling their flesh, which is demonic. No one escapes this conclusion, before or after salvation. IN salvation we see sin for what it is. Demonic. But that doesn't make us sinless in the flesh. Sin is just as John stated. "of the devil." 1 John 3:8.

No liar can enter into this truth, personally. It is a blockade that is set up by scriptures to filter out liars. And it's so tight of a filter that not one single liar can enter into it. Believers who try to enter into this fact will find this fact sticking quite securely in their craw and they will not and can not spit it out and be honest. It just can not happen. It's quite an amazing principle.
 
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
For the la

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


JLB
 
Smaller,

I happen to agree with all you've said. But do you not believe in satanic oppression and possession?
I was speaking to that. NOT the sin nature or concupiscence, as you call it.
We will never be free of the sin nature.

W
 
Smaller,

I happen to agree with all you've said. But do you not believe in satanic oppression and possession?
I was speaking to that. NOT the sin nature or concupiscence, as you call it.
We will never be free of the sin nature.

W

I'm fairly sure that few believers care to see their sin in any form as demonic and prompted by the law or any of God's Words for that matter.

Very strange things happen in believers heads when they read for example a scripture like this:

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

and they automatically think they have no demonic sin in their flesh to strive against because they are a believer.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

They have been effectually deceived by that working.
 
and they automatically think they have no demonic sin in their flesh to strive against because they are a believer.

Could share with us, from the scriptures what the difference is between sin and "demonic sin"?


JLB
 
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