The blasphemous view of Gods Foreknowledge !

[mondar]

??????? (foreknowledge) is a term related to the ginowsko root. ginosko is of a deep intimate loving knowledge of a person. The prefix pro added to the word ginosko makes it a deep loving intimate knowledge beforehand. Adam loved Eve, and Adam knew Eve. God knows us, and loves us, but if we add the prefix "pro" he foreknew us in the sense of loving us before we were born.

God loved us, but because he saw something in us that he liked, but he loved us inspite of what were are like. God did not love Jacob and hate Esau because Jacob made better choices.
Romans 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
God loved us simply for his own glory. God foreloved us, and foreknew us before birth so that his love has only to do with his own choice and not things we did, or choices we make.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Foreknowledge is a saving knowledge and love of a person. In Romans 8:29 the term foreknowledge leads to a person being conformed to the image of his Son.
"For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:"
Romans 8:29 does not say God foreknew everybody. But each and every one that God foreknew, he foreordained to be conformed to the image of Christ. Of course the passage continues in verse 30. All that are foreordained to be conformed to Christs image are also called, justified, and glorified. Terms like called, justified, glorified are not used of unbelievers, but believers.

The bottom line is this, God foreloved us and foreknew us for no reason in man. We are all made of the same mud. We are all rebels. We have all turned away from God. Salvation is not a synergistic effort in which we and God get together and save ourselves. Salvation is wholly of the Lord. It is a divine undertaking alone. It is not a cooperative effort on the part of God and man.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

As for free will, man has the free will to choose any path of sin and rebellion he desires. The only thing that can change our free will to choose evil, is the work of God in regeneration. You must be born again.

 

[mondar]

How about YOU give US a scripture THAT SAYS "man DOESNT have a choice in salvation"

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

How about YOU give US a scripture THAT SAYS "man DOESNT have a choice in salvation"

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Already covered that Mondar
We know that no man has the CHOICE yet offered to him TO come UNTIL the Father draws.
That passage is completely accounted for and reconciled with the rest of the data in my views as presented

 

[follower of Christ]

??????? (foreknowledge) is a term related to the ginowsko root. ginosko is of a deep intimate loving knowledge of a person. The prefix pro added to the word ginosko makes it a deep loving intimate knowledge beforehand. Adam loved Eve, and Adam knew Eve. God knows us, and loves us, but if we add the prefix "pro" he foreknew us in the sense of loving us before we were born.

God loved us, but because he saw something in us that he liked, but he loved us inspite of what were are like. God did not love Jacob and hate Esau because Jacob made better choices.
Romans 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
God loved us simply for his own glory. God foreloved us, and foreknew us before birth so that his love has only to do with his own choice and not things we did, or choices we make.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Foreknowledge is a saving knowledge and love of a person. In Romans 8:29 the term foreknowledge leads to a person being conformed to the image of his Son.
"For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:"
Romans 8:29 does not say God foreknew everybody. But each and every one that God foreknew, he foreordained to be conformed to the image of Christ. Of course the passage continues in verse 30. All that are foreordained to be conformed to Christs image are also called, justified, and glorified. Terms like called, justified, glorified are not used of unbelievers, but believers.

The bottom line is this, God foreloved us and foreknew us for no reason in man. We are all made of the same mud. We are all rebels. We have all turned away from God. Salvation is not a synergistic effort in which we and God get together and save ourselves. Salvation is wholly of the Lord. It is a divine undertaking alone. It is not a cooperative effort on the part of God and man.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

As for free will, man has the free will to choose any path of sin and rebellion he desires. The only thing that can change our free will to choose evil, is the work of God in regeneration. You must be born again.

Words have meanings and intents and usage within any given language.
This word 'foreknew' absolutely takes on the intent of foreknowledge...as in 'foreseeing' (as limited as that word is)...and then with that foresight (I prefer 'omniscience'...or rather 'ALL knowing' over the pathetically lacking concept of 'foreknowing' ) He 'predestines those He knew would choose to love and obey and follow Him to be conformed to the image of His Son.

It is not a cooperative effort on the part of God and man.

Sorry but it IS just that and to remove that aspect of it all NULLIFIES ANY AND ALL meaning of mans existence here.
*IF* God WANTED mindless zombie drones and to KNOCK DOWN our doors forcibly there was NO need for this grand display we call history.
He could have sent directly from the assembly line with our heads stamped 'heaven' or 'hell' and omitted the game.

G4267
??????????
progin?sk?
prog-in-oce'-ko
From G4253 and G1097; to know beforehand, that is, foresee: - foreknow (ordain), know (before).


For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
(Rom 8:29 KJV)

Heres a couple verses where the word is used that SHOW that it DOES have a facet of 'foreknowing'...

You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on guard, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being carried away by the error of the wicked;
(2 Peter 3:17 EMTV)

Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
(Acts 26:5 KJV)

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Thru WHOSE faith ?
The gift is of God and no WORKS we do can cause us to deserve it....THAT is the point of Ephesians there..my favorite book, btw
We are saved because WE believe...WE have faith....WE MUST REACT to God drawing

Looking at the very next verse we see that we ARE required for the works God set into motion before we even existed...

For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10 EMTV)

People ALWAYS quote 2:8-9 of Ephesian and never the very next verse for some reason.
God foreknew and predestined those He foreknew TO good works but WE HAVE to CHOOSE to walk in them...ie WE DO have responsibility and if we REJECT that we REJECT the One who drew us

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

God did not love Jacob and hate Esau because Jacob made better choices.
Romans 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
God loved us simply for his own glory. God foreloved us, and foreknew us before birth so that his love has only to do with his own choice and not things we did, or choices we make.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Im sorry but DID God just randomly HATE Esau, friend....or was it BECAUSE God KNEW what Esau would be ?
Are you actually claiming here that *IF* Esau HAD been a different man....that *IF* Esau would have LOVED God and BEEN what God would have WANTED Esau to be,that God STILL would have hated Esau ?
Preposterous concept.

God hated Esau before he was born ONLY BECAUSE GOD FOREKNEW the man Esau would be

Additionally, Romans 9 ISNT about individual predestination as some distort it to be.
Its using the twins to show what has happened to the nation of Israel.
Keep things IN context and they will start making more sense

.

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Can we assume that some of you here are actually saying that Jesus DOES knock down the door ?

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.
(Revelation 3:20 MKJV)


And open the door -
This must be his own act, receiving power for this purpose from his offended Lord, who will not break open the door; he will make no forcible entry.
-Adam Clarke

And open the door -
As one would when a stranger or friend stood and knocked. The meaning here is simply, if anyone will admit me; that is, receive me as a friend. The act of receiving him is as voluntary on our part as it is when we rise and open the door to one who knocks.
-Albert Barnes

and open the door;
or show a readiness for the coming of Christ, look and wait for it, and be like such that will receive him with a welcome:
-John Gill

 

[mondar]

Sorry but it IS just that and to remove that aspect of it all NULLIFIES ANY AND ALL meaning of mans existence here.
*IF* God WANTED mindless zombie drones and to KNOCK DOWN our doors forcibly there was NO need for this grand display we call history.
He could have sent directly from the assembly line with our heads stamped 'heaven' or 'hell' and omitted the game.

This appears to be ignorance of any position I might take. So you engage in mere throwing of caricatures around. Well, I guess anyone can come here and say anything they want.

Heres a couple verses where the word is used that SHOW that it DOES have a facet of 'foreknowing'...

You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on guard, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being carried away by the error of the wicked;
(2 Peter 3:17 EMTV)

Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
(Acts 26:5 KJV)

From caricatures to straw man argumentation. Sigh.

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

This appears to be ignorance of any position I might take. So you engage in mere throwing of caricatures around.

How would YOU characterize a being who has no choice but to do exactly what he was programmed to do ?
Im all eyes and ears if you have a better presentation

Well, I guess anyone can come here and say anything they want.

Within the guidelines of the TOS, Im sure.

From caricatures to straw man argumentation. Sigh.

Oh please.
The word in question is used in those passages as well and so we look to SEE how they are USED elsewhere to understand the possible INTENT.
If you cannot grasp this very rudimentary concept, then I submit that bible study may be better left to those who do.

And you DO know what a 'strawman' is, right ?
I ask because your usage of it given what you quoted of my post makes me wonder just a bit.

 

[toddm]

Can we assume that some of you here are actually saying that Jesus DOES knock down the door ?

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.
(Revelation 3:20 MKJV)


And open the door -
This must be his own act, receiving power for this purpose from his offended Lord, who will not break open the door; he will make no forcible entry.
-Adam Clarke

And open the door -
As one would when a stranger or friend stood and knocked. The meaning here is simply, if anyone will admit me; that is, receive me as a friend. The act of receiving him is as voluntary on our part as it is when we rise and open the door to one who knocks.
-Albert Barnes

and open the door;
or show a readiness for the coming of Christ, look and wait for it, and be like such that will receive him with a welcome:
-John Gill

Question - do you realize that there is a difference between the Gospel call and effectual calling? The Gospel call goes out to everyone. For the unelect, the Gospel falls on deaf ears and blind eyes, but they still receive the invitation none the less. Effectual calling is when Jesus knocks and you practically kill yourself while running so fast to get the door. So, the choice that seems to be present is from a finite perspective, not an eternal one.

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Question - do you realize that there is a difference between the Gospel call and effectual calling? The Gospel call goes out to everyone.

What I realize is that some prefer to play semantics with the simple facts of scripture rather than just accepting what is presented as a whole

The gospel goes out to everyone, but not everyone is drawn at all times, or Jesus Christ is a liar for saying that no man can come UNLESS the Father draw him. The statement by Christ is entirely pointless if God IS actively drawing EVERY man from the moment of his birth thru his entire lifetime.

For the unelect, the Gospel falls on deaf ears and blind eyes, but they still receive the invitation none the less.

And so the claim would have to be that even if a man WOULD actually have chosen to come to God if given the choice, that GOD has chosen to send this man into hell and torment anyway.
Yeah...you all can HAVE that sort of God. I'd want nothing to do with Him. ;)

The data shows that God WANTS man to react to His drawing. Not that God FORCES man to react.

.

 

[mondar]

God did not love Jacob and hate Esau because Jacob made better choices.
Romans 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
God loved us simply for his own glory. God foreloved us, and foreknew us before birth so that his love has only to do with his own choice and not things we did, or choices we make.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Im sorry but DID God just randomly HATE Esau, friend....or was it BECAUSE God KNEW what Esau would be ?
Are you actually claiming here that *IF* Esau HAD been a different man....that *IF* Esau would have LOVED God and BEEN what God would have WANTED Esau to be,that God STILL would have hated Esau ?
Preposterous concept.

Let me quote this Romans 9:11 again.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

So then when the verse says "neither having done anything good or bad" and that God's choice is "not of works" you still think God chooses on the basis that he knew what Esau would be?

Additionally, Romans 9 ISNT about individual predestination as some distort it to be.
Its using the twins to show what has happened to the nation of Israel.
Keep things IN context and they will start making more sense

Who used the word "predestination" concerning Romans 9? I do not deny that there are national implications to the choices God made concerning individuals. But there is an actual historical Esau and Jacob who God actually made choices concerning them before they were born.

The main point of the passage does have to do with a definition of the term Israel. Paul actually gives his definition in 9:6. However, this does not mean that there are no individual soteriological issues in the context. Paul even begins the context with this amazing statement about giving up his own individual salvation for the sake of the salvation of his brothers (fellow Jews).
3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel.

I have always been amazed by those who say that the Calvinistic reading of Romans 9 leads to the concept of God being unjust. In fact it is almost humorous because Paul is answering that very objection. 14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Some complain that if we have only the choice of rebellion, then we are like "Zombie's" and God cannot does not have the right to judge us. Paul is answering that objection also. He repeats your very objection in slightly different words. Paul says...
19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?
Who can resist his will.... "Zombie... Zombie... Zombies cannot resist Gods will.

=======> Mondar here bends his elbows in and walks stiffly away like a "Zombie."

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Let me quote this Romans 9:11 again.
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

So then when the verse says "neither having done anything good or bad" and that God's choice is "not of works" you still think God chooses on the basis that he knew what Esau would be?

And quote it all you want friend.
Firstly and AGAIN Romans 9 ISNT ABOUT INDIVIDUAL predestination. If you THINK that it is, then you are on the WRONG TRACK to begin with.

Secondly it says that they had not yet done any good or bad...THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOD DID NOT FOREKNOW what each WOULD do
Are you denying that God knows the future, friend ?

Who used the word "predestination" concerning Romans 9?

The moment you brought it into a discussion ABOUT predestination the insinuation was made.

I do not deny that there are national implications to the choices God made concerning individuals. But there is an actual historical Esau and Jacob who God actually made choices concerning them before they were born.

And again the twins are used to make points. That doesnt mean that ALL men are predestined nor does it NEGATE the fact that God FOREKNEW Esaus decision to be what Esau became

I have always been amazed by those who say that the Calvinistic reading of Romans 9 leads to the concept of God being unjust.

And Ive always been amazed by doctrines of the monster god who damns souls to hell who might even have wanted to follow him ;)

In fact it is almost humorous because Paul is answering that very objection. 14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Some complain that if we have only the choice of rebellion, then we are like "Zombie's" and God cannot does not have the right to judge us.

Paul is answering that objection also. He repeats your very objection in slightly different words. Paul says...
19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?
Who can resist his will.... "Zombie... Zombie... Zombies cannot resist Gods will.

=======> Mondar here bends his elbows in and walks stiffly away like a "Zombie."

Again, that chapter is ABOUT Israel, NOT individual predestination.
Keep it IN context. ;)
When you pervert the context to suit your fallacy of course it sounds like its preaching something that its not


.

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

In fact it is almost humorous ...

Let me tell you what is humorous...well, sad actually.
What is humorous and sad is when someone PERVERTS a chapter that ISNT about individual predestination into something that actually DENIES the facts from the WHOLE that shows conclusively that man DOES play a part in his salvation and MUST RESPOND to the drawing of the Father.
THAT is what *I* find humorous and sad.... ;)

DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this article
Simply to show that scripture does support the idea that man does have free will to reject God both before and after having come under this covenant.

Supporting Evidence

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.
(Revelation 3:20 MKJV)

And open the door -
This must be his own act, receiving power for this purpose from his offended Lord, who will not break open the door; he will make no forcible entry.
-Adam Clarke

And open the door -
As one would when a stranger or friend stood and knocked. The meaning here is simply, if anyone will admit me; that is, receive me as a friend. The act of receiving him is as voluntary on our part as it is when we rise and open the door to one who knocks.
-Albert Barnes

and open the door;
or show a readiness for the coming of Christ, look and wait for it, and be like such that will receive him with a welcome:
-John Gill

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:26-39 KJV)

The statement "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" is entirely absurd *IF* 'them' had not actually 'draw back' to perdition.
And the writers EXHORTATION TO these believing Hebrews is VOID of ANY and ALL meaning in REFERRING to these who had 'DRAWN BACK' in his warning to these believers *IF* they could not do the very same thing.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame . For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
(Heb 6:4-9 KJV)

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(Heb 3:1-19 KJV)

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Let me ask this for those who buy this Puppet Master God nonsense.

Will God send a man to hell whom He KNOWs will repent and turn to Him when He draws him ?
If not, then your arguments are moot and meaningless as is this ENTIRE discussion.
If so, then what kind of monster are you worshiping ?

 

[mondar]

This appears to be ignorance of any position I might take. So you engage in mere throwing of caricatures around.

How would YOU characterize a being who has no choice but to do exactly what he was programmed to do ?
Im all eyes and ears if you have a better presentation

Just as I said, caricatures and straw men. I never said man has no will, nor did I say he cannot make a choice. I remember saying that man can make any evil choice he so desires. So then I affirm man makes choices. Man makes the choices he loves and man loves evil.

I do see we have a dramatically different view on the nature of man. I see man as an evil creature, depraved and sold into sin, a rebel from God. I am curious if you would deny original sin?

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Just as I said, caricatures and straw men.

yeah yeah....

I never said man has no will, nor did I say he cannot make a choice.

butbutbut...either he CAN choose or he CANT.
Which is it ?

I remember saying that man can make any evil choice he so desires. So then I affirm man makes choices. Man makes the choices he loves and man loves evil.

And evil man when drawn by the Father and thus 'awakened' to the Creator THEN can CHOOSE to come out of that evil and turn to that Creator.

I do see we have a dramatically different view on the nature of man. I see man as an evil creature, depraved and sold into sin, a rebel from God. I am curious if you would deny original sin?

Deny original sin ?
What on earth are you talking about.
Who can deny that man sinned against the Creator and so became separated from Him ?

I suppose now we have to derail this thread simply because you cant accept facts ?

.

 

[mondar]

Let me ask this for those who buy this Puppet Master God nonsense.

Will God send a man to hell whom He KNOWs will repent and turn to Him when He draws him ?
If not, then your arguments are moot and meaningless as is this ENTIRE discussion.
If so, then what kind of monster are you worshiping ?

Interesting. I look at your words "Will God send a man to hell whom he knows will repent." How delightfully ignorant of what I am saying.

Romans 3:11 there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.

You are never going to engage my position and represent me properly are you? Its always going to be caricatures, name calling, and straw men.

 

[follower of Christ]

The blasphemous views of Calvinism and Hyper-predestination

Interesting. I look at your words "Will God send a man to hell whom he knows will repent." How delightfully ignorant of what I am saying.

if youre not keeping to the TOPIC of the thread then why are you here posting in it ?

You are never going to engage my position and represent me properly are you? Its always going to be caricatures, name calling, and straw men.

Im sorry....where did anyone call you any names, M ?
Is dishonesty what you have to resort to now ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

mondar says:

Man makes the choices he loves and man loves evil.

Yes indeed we do , Jesus said that here Jn 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

That word darkness is skotos and means:

darkness

a) of night darkness

b) of darkened eyesight or blindness

2) metaph.

a) of ignorance respecting divine things and human duties, and the accompanying ungodliness and immorality, together with their consequent misery in hell

b) persons in whom darkness becomes visible and holds sway

Man by nature and in love with darkness is ignorant to Divine things, which Paul affirms here:

eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Also that same word for darkness is used in eph 5:


8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Notice Paul says that they were once darkness themselves, not Just in darkness..

This verse too dispels the ideal that men by nature are in the Image of God after the fall..because man after the Fall is as Paul describes here darkness, and truly that cannot define anything pertaining to the Image of God, who is Light and with Him is no darkness at all..