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The burden of proof

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LovethroughDove said:
You asked me what happens to people when they don't have a bible. They are judged accordingly. People who have never heard of Jesus........God will have mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy on. If you have heard of Jesus and reject, you have rejected the Light. If you have heard of Jesus and don't know really who he is, because you don't have a bible......you run the risk of getting in front of you and him telling you "I never knew you".......because you didn't know him.
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You could still have a Bible, read it, memorize it, know it - and He could still say to you, "I never knew you".
 
It's peculiar how we seem to, so often, automatically jump to "being judged by", rather than "being drawn to" Christ. Especially when that was His primary thrust..... "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me."

The more I read that sentence I just typed, the more I realize how absolutely frightening that propensity SHOULD be to us. But......... is it? Not often.
 
Willie T said:
It's peculiar how we seem to, so often, automatically jump to "being judged by", rather than "being drawn to" Christ. Especially when that was His primary thrust..... "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me."

The more I read that sentence I just typed, the more I realize how absolutely frightening that propensity SHOULD be to us. But......... is it? Not often.
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I really don't see anyone lifting up the Jesus I know through his word. And therefore ALL men are not being drawn to him.
 
LovethroughDove said:
I really don't see anyone lifting up the Jesus I know through his word. And therefore ALL men are not being drawn to him.
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UH.............. He was "lifted up" at a specific point in time 2,000 years ago, thereby putting into action His "drawing of all men"....... the whole purpose for His coming, as expressed in John 3:16.
 
Willie T said:
UH.............. He was "lifted up" at a specific point in time 2,000 years ago, thereby putting into action His "drawing of all men"....... the whole purpose for His coming, as expressed in John 3:16.
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Right before he said that Willie T He said....John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

He is speaking prophetically right before judgment.
 
LovethroughDove said:
Right before he said that Willie T He said....John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

He is speaking prophetically right before judgment.
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Jesus died for the entire world, we have free will to chose Him or not. The Bible will not save you as much as you would like it to.

You search scripture because in them you think you have eternal life - Jesus said that.
 
Jesse said:
Jesus died for the entire world, we have free will to chose Him or not. The Bible will not save you as much as you would like it to.

You search scripture because in them you think you have eternal life - Jesus said that.
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Jesse - he was saying that to people who were searching for the wrong reasons
 
He speaks many times about "his" words. (hence, the book)

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

You can't play dumb when you are standing in front of God.
 
LovethroughDove said:
He speaks many times about "his" words. (hence, the book)

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

You can't play dumb when you are standing in front of God.
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(Edited, ToS 2.4 personal attack. Obadiah.)
I never ever said once that I did not read the Bible, I read it on a daily basis and I also study it. God has clearly made it apparent to me that He desires He and I to be One, and I need to have a relationship with Him, NOT a book.

I just don't place it as an idol in my life, it is not all encompassing, God still does not live in a book, it is not the flesh of Christ.

Idolatry is not a good thing to have in one's life.
 
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LTD,
I have to admit that your comment had me sitting here all this time trying hard to figure out what you were trying to say. Are you possibly trying to say that He was speaking of "the end times"? (whenever that may come)
 
Willie T said:
LTD,
I have to admit that your comment had me sitting here all this time trying hard to figure out what you were trying to say. Are you possibly trying to say that He was speaking of "the end times"? (whenever that may come)
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(Edited, ToS 2.4 personal attack. Obadiah)
 
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Jesse said:
You study the Scriptures because you think you have eternal life in them, yet they testify about Me. And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life."- John 5:39-40

This is exactly the error people do, they put their faith in the Bible, instead of the Living Christ. Christ saved you, not a book. God deems us righteous, not the Bible, Jesus is active and living, the Holy Spirit brings life to our learning and God uses many different avenues to teach us about Him. Our relationship is with Christ. I'm not saying the Bible is not important, it is, but people have placed more value and rely more heavily on the Bible then they do with their relationship with Christ.

I have heard people tell me it's dangerous to follow the Holy Spirit (because it may not really by the Holy Spirit), but that is exactly what Jesus did, it is what all the apostles did, all of the early disciples, they followed Christ - not the Bible, it didn't exist.

The Bible is not God.
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  1. Whom do you suppose is the Author of the Bible.
  2. How do you suppose He communicates with humanity if not through the words He caused the authors of Scripture to write?
  3. Since you state that you read the Bible daily, using your definition, would you call yourself an "idolator" because you use it so often that you could (using vernacular terms) be "addicted to your own idol", the Bible? OF COURSE that is not really the case, and we both know that, but question 3 is really asking where you draw the lines.

In order to make the distinction that you make, you need to answer those questions.
 
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By Grace said:
  1. Whom do you suppose is the Author of the Bible.
  2. How do you suppose He communicates with humanity if not through the words He caused the authors of Scripture to write?
In order to make the distinction that you make, you need to answer those questions.
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God inspired the authors to write, there are many authors of the Bible.

He communicates in various ways and methods, not limited to the Bible. He communicates with us by His Holy Spirit, through Creation, through other people, through other books, through the Bible, through experiences, through prayer (this is THE LIFE LINE), through circumstances, through trials, through suffering.......

A better question would be - how does God NOT communicate with us? I can not think of one.
 
LovethroughDove said:
Okay. So what does it mean to you, when Jesus said eat his flesh? He came in the flesh, but what did he mean when he said you have to eat him. (if he is not the Word of God ALSO)
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Personally I think you're probably ultimately right in the long run. He sure meant something when He wrote that! It's in there so it must be important!

I think it means simply, to devour His Word, our Bible. Face it, we can't eat His flesh and drink His blood now because He's come and gone. So He's absolutely speaking in a spiritual nature. Our real 'man-being' is not our flesh body, it's our spirit man. Does anyone do anything for their spirit man? Do you feed him? Do you exercise him?

The Word of God is food for our spirit. All good things come from God. The Word is special. If you devour and consume His Word...(and do what it says!)...He will come to you. You will get the mind of Christ, and be transformed through the renewing of your mind, because of His Word.

That's the Kingdom, the spiritual realm, where your spirit man is from and will return to...but we can't see it, this spirit man or this food and life flowing into him while he reads Gods Word...so people tend to poo poo it. It's paranormal, I don't believe in that...you better. The kingdoms realm is more real than our natural realm.

That's what Jesus was talking about. Feed my Sheep. Eat my flesh...He's talking about feeding your spirit man His Word. Do everything for your spirit that you do for your flesh. Feed him everyday. What was the Apostles mission? To go to the world and proclaim the gospel (feed my sheep.) Well...feed yourself too. And exercise your spiritual senses also. That's what Hebrews is talking about:

Hebrews 5:13-14
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil./

It's talking about exercising your spiritual senses, to discern good and evil. Scripture talks so much about the spiritual realm! We have faith in the unseen. live for the spirit, we wrestle not against flesh and blood but principalities and powers...a renewed spirit. This stuff is real. Remember, we are not of this world (natural realm), we are of the Kingdom (spiritual realm), so it behooves us all to be aware of your spirit man, and care for him well. To eat the flesh of Jesus is to read His Word.
 
The early churches, that is, the churches that existed in the time of the Apostles, were very careful to cryptically define the appearance of God in Christ into creation as A GREAT MYSTERY. I respect that sight. It is indeed a mystery. A Great One. When we read that Christ Himself is shown and demonstrated from cover to cover that eventually extends to the Great Mystery, Living and Active in all by faith to some degree or another.

I am content not to have to define or capture God in Christ because of the ground of MYSTERY. For me that will remain a human folly on the basis that we ALL see in part. I set my sights on matters forward and the loping off of partiality sights.

It will remain a Great Mystery to me that God has sown His Son into our hearts. How would we EVER define that?

That is beyond definitions for me. I simply remain in AWE of all such matters.

God is not in need of my definitions of such a matter.

I rest in the faith that it is so, content to know that God Will Hold Himself out beyond the capture of any partially sighted seer. For me this is comforting.

I can't bow to my own limited sight, that much is certain.
 
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