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The burden of proof

Jesse said:
Just to be clear, which tanslation are we discussing?
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I'll prefer Hebrew or Aramaic formal transliteration, which I consider to be as close to a literal translation as can be done, understanding it's frailties. The paraphrase methods generally produce good reading, but also a lot of gutting of the finer points which can be bad.
 
smaller said:
I'll prefer Hebrew or Aramaic formal transliteration, which I consider to be as close to a literal translation as can be done, understanding it's frailties. The paraphrase methods generally produce good reading, but also a lot of gutting of the finer points which can be bad.
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Well, the original would be best. :)

Many translations have been changed to support doctrinal differences depending on which denomination funded it. Even though the Bible can be changed, and is changed, we have today Bibles that express God as a "she". There are other Bibles which have taken out entirely or down played that which is deemed offensive to some beliefs.

One things stands, that we both agree upon, God does not change, He forever remains the same and it is He who we should have a relationship with. A book can not contain all of Him.
 
Jesse said:
Well, the original would be best. :)
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Sure straight from the horses mouth would be the best if we could remember it all...heh heh. FORTUNATELY we don't have to worry about that.
Many translations have been changed to support doctrinal differences depending on which denomination funded it. Even though the Bible can be changed, and is changed, we have today Bibles that express God as a "she". There are other Bibles which have taken out entirely or down played that which is deemed offensive to some beliefs.
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Indeed. I know people who have or are currently writing their own personal bibles. I disagree with their intentions, but it's open territory. No one can stop them.
One things stands, that we both agree upon, God does not change, He forever remains the same and it is He who we should have a relationship with. A book can not contain all of Him.
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ditto and agreed.
 
smaller said:
Sure straight from the horses mouth would be the best if we could remember it all...heh heh. FORTUNATELY we don't have to worry about that.
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The Bible was inspired by God, men wrote it.

The Bible has caused MORE division than any other book ever written. I think because it's use is not as it was originally intended as we see on this thread.
 
Jesse said:
The Bible was inspired by God, men wrote it.

The Bible has caused MORE division than any other book ever written. I think because it's use is not as it was originally intended as we see on this thread.
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The Word written and Living/Active will do HIS WORK and has/will/does His Will:

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

We all enjoy bathing ourselves with the good stuff and to seek His Peace. I consider all of that Divine Noble effort on the part of any believers. Those are good things to pursue.

But of course that is not really all that goes on.

Any casual glance at the churches and their history will show very UNpeaceful like situations, and in that Jesus did not lie, did He? IN fact I'd really have to say Jesus and His Word was a raging success in that regard.
 
Jesse said:
Jesus is the WORD.

God is not a book.
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Exactly right. We need to be careful to not deify the bible. It is a wonderfully created record and divinely inspired tool for Christianity, but it is the word of God in a different way than Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is far more than the bible.

Jhn 21:25 - And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.​
 
Sinthesis said:
Exactly right. We need to be careful to not deify the bible. It is a wonderfully created record and divinely inspired tool for Christianity, but it is the word of God in a different way than Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is far more than the bible.

Jhn 21:25 - And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.​
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Amen!
Very nicely stated.
 
Jesse said:
You study the Scriptures because you think you have eternal life in them, yet they testify about Me. And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life."- John 5:39-40

This is exactly the error people do, they put their faith in the Bible, instead of the Living Christ. Christ saved you, not a book. God deems us righteous, not the Bible, Jesus is active and living, the Holy Spirit brings life to our learning and God uses many different avenues to teach us about Him. Our relationship is with Christ. I'm not saying the Bible is not important, it is, but people have placed more value and rely more heavily on the Bible then they do with their relationship with Christ.

I have heard people tell me it's dangerous to follow the Holy Spirit (because it may not really by the Holy Spirit), but that is exactly what Jesus did, it is what all the apostles did, all of the early disciples, they followed Christ - not the Bible, it didn't exist.

The Bible is not God.
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Maybe some people do, but not all Christians. The Bible is not God, I don't have faith in the Bible, nor a relationship with it...:screwloose2 That would be weird. The bible is still essential above all others in that, the more that one wants to know God, and be one in Christ...the more one would need his bible. God is not the book, but you can find God through the book, behind the book, and therein have a relationship with Him.

Why do you think He left us the book? Because it isn't needed? No big deal? It is. :study

That book contains the very thoughts of our God. In a compact portable reference device. How cool is that?! It's our human owners manual, with everything in it that we could possibly need for any situation in our lives. When you crack open that book, God sits up and takes notice and His Spirit starts moving for us. I can understand wanting to be cautious and not to make the bible something it isn't, Keep a proper perspective though. It's not just another book!

Spirits...be very careful with Spirits. Test all of them, all of the time. If Jesus Himself comes into your room, test Him. He told us to, He will not be offended to be tested. The test is, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? Anything other than a yes is not of God.
 
Edward said:
Maybe some people do, but not all Christians. The Bible is not God, I don't have faith in the Bible, nor a relationship with it...:screwloose2 That would be weird. The bible is still essential above all others in that, the more that one wants to know God, and be one in Christ...the more one would need his bible. God is not the book, but you can find God through the book, behind the book, and therein have a relationship with Him.

Why do you think He left us the book? Because it isn't needed? No big deal? It is. :study

That book contains the very thoughts of our God. In a compact portable reference device. How cool is that?! It's our human owners manual, with everything in it that we could possibly need for any situation in our lives. When you crack open that book, God sits up and takes notice and His Spirit starts moving for us. I can understand wanting to be cautious and not to make the bible something it isn't, Keep a proper perspective though. It's not just another book!

Spirits...be very careful with Spirits. Test all of them, all of the time. If Jesus Himself comes into your room, test Him. He told us to, He will not be offended to be tested. The test is, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? Anything other than a yes is not of God.
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We do have people on this thread who have outright said that Jesus is the Bible, it's the point of my posts (or at least I'm trying) to point out this is not true. They appear to be having a relationship with the Bible and that is impossible.

I've already stated the Bible is important, but to elevate up and over God and make IT our final authority is missing the entire point of God being the final authority in all things. Who is the Judge? Bible or God? Who is the Messiah? Jesus or the Bible?

An idol is not a good thing, anything that stands between God and us should be lowered to its proper place and God elevated to His.
 
Jesse said:
We do have people on this thread who have outright said that Jesus is the Bible, it's the point of my posts (or at least I'm trying) to point out this is not true.
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Okay. So what does it mean to you, when Jesus said eat his flesh? He came in the flesh, but what did he mean when he said you have to eat him. (if he is not the Word of God ALSO)
 
LovethroughDove said:
Okay. So what does it mean to you, when Jesus said eat his flesh? He came in the flesh, but what did he mean when he said you have to eat him. (if he is not the Word of God ALSO)
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To make all of you, about Him. I must decrease so He can increase. Die to self so that He can live in me. It is no longer I, but Christ in me.

The Catholics think this is to take communion and then it turns into His flesh.

This has been an overly abused scripture, imo, people making it out to what they want it to say. He was taking communion when He said that, there was nothing about the Bible in the context.
 
No.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. John 6:53 Jesus said to them "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

You didn't answer my question. But you don't have to.
 
LovethroughDove said:
No.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. John 6:53 Jesus said to them "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

You didn't answer my question. But you don't have to.
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I did tell you. We die to self, we decrease, so He can increase, we pick up our cross and follow him daily. We say "no" to the world and "yes" to Him. That is not an easy endeavor to do either sometimes.

Do you think that we have to literally eat his flesh or something? Are you Catholic?
 
LovethroughDove said:
"He" said we have to eat his flesh...... So, you are saying eating his flesh is dying to self?
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All of what I said is part of eating His flesh, He absorbs us, we decrease, He increases, we become One with Him. So yes, it's dying to self. We're conforming to His image - how do we do that, if we're not "eating" the very being who we are being conformed, too?

You didn't answer my question - do you think we have to physically eat his flesh? Do you think somehow the Bible is His flesh? It's not.
 
Jesse said:
All of what I said is part of eating His flesh, He absorbs us, we decrease, He increases, we become One with Him. So yes, it's dying to self. We're conforming to His image - how do we do that, if we're not "eating" the very being who we are being conformed, too?

You didn't answer my question - do you think we have to physically eat his flesh? Do you think somehow the Bible is His flesh? It's not.
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<LIKE>
 
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