The call of the Father.

[for_his_glory]

This is where I'm gonna show my lack of knowledge of Old Testament. I wouldn't think it would be the Spirit of Christ entering a person because the Christ hadn't come yet. The Christ walked in flesh (Jesus). This is how the Spirit of Christ helps "Christians" walk in our flesh.......he experienced it.

The Holy Spirit is the very Spirit of God within the Godhead being Father, Son Christ Jesus and Holy Spirit. It's all God's Spirit before and after Pentecost. It's the breath of God that breathes life into us making us a living soul and also breathes a renewed Spiritual life within the Spiritual rebirth.

 

[Watchman 2]

I didn’t say anything about Greek words being translated.

I used scripture to define the word faith.

If your only interested in arguing about Greek words and how they are defined by other scholars then you can be assured of arguing and division.



JLB

Ya , your translating scripture from the English language instead of original Greek. Good luck with that.

If you would have just been up front and said you don't recognize the ancient Greek texts or their dictionaries, it would have saved alot of wasted time.

 

[Watchman 2]

There is a barrier between us and that is not being able to share the word of God with you as what God has already spoken. Greek and Hebrew concordances are good for looking up words, but if you are not using them in the proper context of scripture then the word can take on different meanings in ones own mind.

Trying to teach reformed theology without and Biblical support is teaching that from a carnal mind as it only brings speculation and opinions to the table. Since you do not want us to use scripture, and you already have your mind set for whatever answer you want us to give you, that agrees with you, I am done with our discussion.

God bless you and have a great day.

If you don't know or understand what saving Faith is in accordance with the original manuscripts, you couldn't have fulfilled it.
If you haven't fulfilled the mandatory aspects of saving Faith, the Spirit of Christ has not been given yet. If we don't have the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word and the promises in His word are not ours!

This is why I don't recognize you as a legitimate owner of Christ or His word yet.

I was hoping you could read between the lines, but there it is for everyone here.

 

[JLB]

Ya , your translating scripture from the English language instead of original Greek. Good luck with that.

If you would have just been up front and said you don't recognize the ancient Greek texts or their dictionaries, it would have saved alot of wasted time.

I don’t read Greek. My Bible is written in English.

What’s wrong with reading and believing scripture?


JLB

 

[Watchman 2]

I don’t read Greek. My Bible is written in English.

What’s wrong with reading and believing scripture?


JLB

I'll let Jesus explain it to you when your standing in front of Him. Since you won't listen to my warning.

 

[LovethroughDove]

In the ancient of days before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent down when He ascended up to sit at the right hand of God, John 14:26, the Holy Spirit, being the very Spirit of God within the Godhead, only came upon certain judges, warriors and prophets in a way that gave them extraordinary power. Joshua, Numbers 27:18; Othniel, Judges 3:10; Gideon, Judges 6:34; Samson, Judges 13:25, 14:6; Saul 1 Samuel 10:9, 10.

The Spirit of God inspired holiness in OT believers, Psalms 143:10. Scripture, being the word of God, promised that someday God would put His Spirit in His people in a way that would cause them to live according to His statutes, Ezekiel 36:27; John 14:26; Acts 2.

In short, in the OT came upon. In the NT indwelled.

I thought this is the case. And then JLB blew my mind with 1 Peter 1:11
So the prophets before Jesus came in the flesh has the Spirit of Christ in them cause they were predicting him. I'm getting chills.

 

[JLB]

I'll let Jesus explain it to you when your standing in front of Him. Since you won't listen to my warning.

Warning?

What warning?

I asked what’s wrong with simply reading and believing the scriptures.

You should agree.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I thought this is the case. And then JLB blew my mind with 1 Peter 1:11
So the prophets before Jesus came in the flesh has the Spirit of Christ in them cause they were predicting him. I'm getting chills.

Here’s a good example.


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

JLB

 

[daninthelionsden]

Nobody comes to Christ, unless the Father calls them.

I think most would agree, that this calling out from the Father is the beginning of the Salvation journey.

My question to the group, is could the Father call someone out ( say before the scriptures were available to the masses 15th century ) to respond in Faith, even though they have never heard of Christ or the good news of the Gospel?

You make me think of the painter/author Akiane Kramerick. She met the Lord.....no Bible.....no Church......He came to her and found her and she Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you don't know or understand what saving Faith is in accordance with the original manuscripts, you couldn't have fulfilled it.
If you haven't fulfilled the mandatory aspects of saving Faith, the Spirit of Christ has not been given yet. If we don't have the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word and the promises in His word are not ours!

This is why I don't recognize you as a legitimate owner of Christ or His word yet.

I was hoping you could read between the lines, but there it is for everyone here.

Since you or none of us that I know of are fluent in speaking or understand when Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek is spoken in which the original manuscripts are written in then all you or any of us have is only the translations of the original manuscripts written in English that is not that difficult to understand when defining what saving faith is. It doesn't have to be scrutinize, analized, broke dowh and put under a magnifing glass. If you can not understand Hebrews 11:1 in it's simple English definition, then how will you understand anything that has been written.

We do not receive the Spirit of Christ, but that of the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God as His Spirit dwells in us being God's temple. I would only hope you would know what the Spiritial rebirth is all about as saving faith comes by God's grace through that of Christ Jesus even before the foundation of the world.

I do not own Christ, but am privilged as He lives in me and I in Him as God's servant in obedience to His will and not my own. In His righteousness and not my own. It's only when one surrenders all to God and dies to self that are called His own by His name.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

BTW, there is no reading between the lines of scripture as that would only be adding to or taking away from them and we know what Rev 22:18, 19 says.

 

[for_his_glory]

I thought this is the case. And then JLB blew my mind with 1 Peter 1:11
So the prophets before Jesus came in the flesh has the Spirit of Christ in them cause they were predicting him. I'm getting chills.

The Prophets were given prophecy of the coming of Messiah by the words God's Spirit gave them to speak. No one can speak with any authority unless it comes from God as even Jesus never spoke anything that God did not give Him to speak or commanded Him to do, John 12:49, 50. All things are by the father even before the foundation of the world.

 

[OzSpen]

OK Watchman2
Continue without me.

Just for your consideration....
Were ANY of the American Indians saved?
Did any of them know about God Almighty?
How did THEY have the faith to be saved?

wondering,

I'm also gone with you. We are spinning the wheels and going nowhere. Some want to make their own rules about how to define a biblical word.

I've had enough of this.
Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

I'm also gone with you. We are spinning the wheels and going nowhere. Some want to make their own rules about how to define a biblical word.

I've had enough of this.
Oz

Ditto. I think the horse is dead !

 

[LovethroughDove]

The Prophets were given prophecy of the coming of Messiah by the words God's Spirit gave them to speak. No one can speak with any authority unless it comes from God as even Jesus never spoke anything that God did not give Him to speak or commanded Him to do, John 12:49, 50. All things are by the father even before the foundation of the world.

So maybe that goes along with John 1:1-2. So the Word coming from the prophets was Christ and then he became flesh. I've known the Word became flesh, but this revelation that the Word "in" the prophets is Christ.........this is wow.

 

[JLB]

You make me think of the painter/author Akiane Kramerick. She met the Lord.....no Bible.....no Church......He came to her and found her and she Him.

Amen, Like Abraham, Moses and Paul, and others.




JLB

 

[JLB]

So maybe that goes along with John 1:1-2. So the Word coming from the prophets was Christ and then he became flesh. I've known the Word became flesh, but this revelation that the Word "in" the prophets is Christ.........this is wow.

Jesus is the Lord God of the Old Testament; YHWH


He breathed the breath of Life into Adam.

He made covenant with Abraham.


When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1


This is what Jesus revealed to Hs people and was rejected.


Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:54-59


This is what the New Testament reveals about Him.


He is the Creator of heaven and earth, and is the only begotten of the Father.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

So maybe that goes along with John 1:1-2. So the Word coming from the prophets was Christ and then he became flesh. I've known the Word became flesh, but this revelation that the Word "in" the prophets is Christ.........this is wow.

Here is another one for you.
1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Jesus has always been even before the foundation of the world as being God's plan of salvation for a wicked people. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit = God's Spirit within the Godhead. All one in the same Spirit = saving faith to all who will believe.

 

[Hospes]

And what is that "sane belief?"

Being convinced of something that is real/true.

 

[Watchman 2]

I struggle with the idea that a person can sanely believe something and then act as if they don't. It seems a simple exercise of self-deceit, i.e. a move into insanity.

Could you give an example of this with respect to the OP?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Here is another one for you.
1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Jesus has always been even before the foundation of the world as being God's plan of salvation for a wicked people. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit = God's Spirit within the Godhead. All one in the same Spirit = saving faith to all who will believe.

I think sometimes Christendom focuses too much on him pre-flesh and then misses the importance of the literal Christ coming into the world. That is why you'll see me promoting Jesus the Christ. New Agers like to focus on "spirit" and don't understand the magnitude of him. But like you and JLB post, the Word was being set to introduce the person of Christ into the world. John 15:22-25