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The Catholic Church.

I don't fully understand the animosity Protestants have toward the Catholic church and vise versa. We protestants can have civil conversations between each other despite our disagreements more easily than we can with Catholics. Why is that?

I can think of a few things about other Protestant denominations that I really question just as I question some Catholic traditions and beliefs. There are traditions and beliefs in my own Lutheran church that I question and there are things I miss from my Catholic upbringing such as the traditional acts of reverence which is lacking some in most protestant churches and confession although I do have misgivings about the Catholic practice of confession with regard to how penance is administered.

I think God can use all of us to learn from each other.

I have found that it's the Catholics who arrogantly proclaim themselves as "the one true church". They falsely claim that Peter was the first Pope and that other denominations are not the true church.

They are bogged own with so much misinformation and man-made traditions that they "can't see the forest for the trees". For example, they pray to Mary and "the saints", which is unscriptural. They are so bogged down in extra-Biblical traditions and rituals that they are more like OT Hebrews than Christians.

I am even on a thread where the poster claims that the Catholic Church predates the Bible! Really!

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18
 
I have found that it's the Catholics who arrogantly proclaim themselves as "the one true church". They falsely claim that Peter was the first Pope and that other denominations are not the true church.

They are bogged own with so much misinformation and man-made traditions that they "can't see the forest for the trees". For example, they pray to Mary and "the saints", which is unscriptural. They are so bogged down in extra-Biblical traditions and rituals that they are more like OT Hebrews than Christians.

I am even on a thread where the poster claims that the Catholic Church predates the Bible! Really!

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18
The Catholic Church DOES predate the N.T.
It's simple history.
 
The Catholic Church DOES predate the N.T.
It's simple history.
The "books" of the Bible were all written before the Catholic church was founded. The first use of the term "Catholic Church" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD). The entire canon of Scripture was completed decades earlier.

If you have evidence please present it. Otherwise your statement has no value.
 
The "books" of the Bible were all written before the Catholic church was founded. The first use of the term "Catholic Church" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD). The entire canon of Scripture was completed decades earlier.

If you have evidence please present it. Otherwise your statement has no value.
You could take my statement or leave it Jaybo.

However, it would behoove you to study church history before commenting on it.
 
I think the 'official' version is protestants are in grave danger of going to hell. That is not to say all R.C.s think this to be so.

What the Roman Catholic Church believes about those who disagree with the Church as stated in the Council of Trent. http://www.wordexplain.com/Anathemas_and_the_Council_of_Trent.html

Anathema - a formal curse by a pope or a council of the Church, excommunicating a person or denouncing a doctrine.

The article says, "As the reader can see, all Protestants who do not agree with everything the Roman Catholic Church teaches in the sessions with anathemas are in mortal danger of hellfire."
All of the above is incorrect.
 
You could take my statement or leave it Jaybo.

However, it would behoove you to study church history before commenting on it.

When was the Catholic church founded? Why is there no mention of the Catholic Church in the Bible?

Once again, the "books" of the Bible were all written before the Catholic church was founded. The first use of the term "Catholic Church" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD). The entire canon of Scripture was completed decades earlier.

It would behoove you to study church history before commenting on it.

I will not debate this with you any longer. Believe whatever propaganda you wish. I believe Bible historians.
 
One of the most often cited verses in the Bible by Catholics concerning the church's foundation is Matthew 16:18, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." Along with this is the claim that the Catholic church is older than the Bible.

Aside from the logical absurdity to claim that the Old Testament is newer than the Catholic church, how is it possible for Jesus to say in Scripture that "on this rock I will build my church" (future tense)? Clearly, when Jesus spoke these words and furthermore, when they were written, the church had not yet been founded. There is no other way to interpret this.

The Bible -- all of it -- predates the Catholic church.
 
I have found that it's the Catholics who arrogantly proclaim themselves as "the one true church". They falsely claim that Peter was the first Pope and that other denominations are not the true church.

They are bogged own with so much misinformation and man-made traditions that they "can't see the forest for the trees". For example, they pray to Mary and "the saints", which is unscriptural. They are so bogged down in extra-Biblical traditions and rituals that they are more like OT Hebrews than Christians.

I am even on a thread where the poster claims that the Catholic Church predates the Bible! Really!

"Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18
This is not necessarily in defense of the Catholic church but when we Protestants declare Catholics to be heretics or frauds, etc., are we not proclaiming ourselves to be representative of the truth?
 
When was the Catholic church founded? Why is there no mention of the Catholic Church in the Bible?

Once again, the "books" of the Bible were all written before the Catholic church was founded. The first use of the term "Catholic Church" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD). The entire canon of Scripture was completed decades earlier.

It would behoove you to study church history before commenting on it.

I will not debate this with you any longer. Believe whatever propaganda you wish. I believe Bible historians.
Catholic by definition means all encompassing. This is just my guess but in 110 AD the term Catholic probably was a pretty accurate description of the Church (capital C intentional).
 
if we didn't believe our chosen doctrine to be true, we would not be true believers in a given form of Christianity.

having said that...I -do- think Reformed churches are probably more distasteful to the RCC than, say, the SBC or Episcopalians (obviously...). Based on -some- Reformed theology I've read (written for the masses...RC Sproul, that kinda thing), I'd say...

-sigh- the feeling is mutual. ugh. :-(
 
Catholic by definition means all encompassing. This is just my guess but in 110 AD the term Catholic probably was a pretty accurate description of the Church (capital C intentional).
Catholic (with a capital C) refers to a particular denomination; it doesn't mean "all encompassing". Again, there is no mention of "Catholic" in the Bible. It is a made-up extra-Biblical term.
 
Catholic (with a capital C) refers to a particular denomination; it doesn't mean "all encompassing". Again, there is no mention of "Catholic" in the Bible. It is a made-up extra-Biblical term.
You're correct. I never said otherwise. Catholic as it was used in 110 AD was a descriptive term meaning all encompassing and that definition is still valid today for it is representative of Christ's Church.
 
All denominations and people get something wrong theologically. Obviously, some get it more wrong than others and some get it so wrong that their eternal destiny is in hell.

The critical crux of the matter is: What is/are the source(s) of God instructions to man. You can exercise your beliefs perfectly according to the source you follow, but if the source is faulty, then you are treading through a mine field that could lead to eternal death.

The Eucharist​

When it comes to the Eucharist, which most Protestants call ‘The Lord’s Supper,” or “Communion,” the Roman Catholic Church holds to the doctrine of transubstantiation—the idea that the edible ritual elements used during the mass literally become the body and blood of Christ. Is this worship or idolatry?

The Magisterium​

This body also allows the church to make official pronouncements on contemporary issues which Scripture might not directly address. Are they speaking for God or man?

Tradition​

“…does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” If the R.C.s are correct, then the protestants are ignoring God.

Justification​

“What the Roman Catholic rejects is that there is an imputed righteousness of Christ to us at the moment of salvation, that we are counted as fully righteous in the sight of God”. Works salvation? Gal. 5:2 ?

Priesthood of All Believers​

That which was reserved just for the magisterium, the ability to bind and loose to forgive and withhold forgiveness through the sacraments and through penance and such, that was just the role of the priest. From Luther on, we have the ability to confess our sins to one another, pronounce forgiveness as the scripture says.” Man can pronounce forgiveness?

Veneration of the Saints and the Virgin Mary​

Roman Catholics see veneration, not as praying to the Saints and the Virgin Mary, but as praying through them. This is seen as similar to asking a brother or sister in Christ to pray for you. Dr. Svigel adds that departed saints are also “able to spill over their overabundance of grace to us.”

Furthermore, Dr. Horrell notes that the Virgin Mary is seen as “the mother of our Lord, and therefore she is the mother of his body, and his body is the church, so she is the mother of the church. He is the creator of all things. So she is the mother of angels. She is the mother of humanity, as is sometimes said.”

Source: https://voice.dts.edu/article/7-key...tant-and-catholic-doctrine-del-rosario-mikel/
 
I've been Born again for 58 Years, I'm officially "Roman Catholic" (since I was baptized as one, although never "confirmed") I've had 58 years to study the beliefs and Traditions of the Roman Catholic Church (among many other Denominations), I've read extensively, and easily recognize the paganism, and departures from Biblical teaching in the foolishness that they teach for "doctrine". Roman Catholicism is essentially a "Salvation by WORKS" religious system, which is exactly why Luther kicked off the Reformation to resore the Biblical "Salvation BY FAITH" theology. He WANTED to restore his beloved Catholic Church to the truth, and the MIRACLE IS that they weren't able to murder him for trying.
If you know about catholicism, you must know that you are not officially a catholic.
A catholic must adhere to all doctrine taught by the catholic church.
You cannot disagree with its doctrine.
If you do, there is a procedure.
My priest friends know I don't agree with all Catholic doctrine...they don't really care.

I'd like to know exactly what pagan rituals they practice since I don't know of any.
You think they believe in salvation by works?
Every Christian religion believes in salvation by works after we attain faith.
Are you one of those persons that believes Jesus did everything for us so we could sit around and do nothing?

I agree that the church was doing things that were wrong at the time of Luther and before that.
But it's not like that today.
I mean, how many years do you want to go back?

At least you said that Luther wanted to RESTORE the CC to its original truth.
Some persons on this thread don't even know church history and yet want to comment on it.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
I've been Born again for 58 Years, I'm officially "Roman Catholic" (since I was baptized as one, although never "confirmed") I've had 58 years to study the beliefs and Traditions of the Roman Catholic Church (among many other Denominations), I've read extensively, and easily recognize the paganism, and departures from Biblical teaching in the foolishness that they teach for "doctrine". Roman Catholicism is essentially a "Salvation by WORKS" religious system, which is exactly why Luther kicked off the Reformation to resore the Biblical "Salvation BY FAITH" theology. He WANTED to restore his beloved Catholic Church to the truth, and the MIRACLE IS that they weren't able to murder him for trying.

Rollo Tomasi said:

So do you think it's true that all roman catholics are going to hell?
Do you think you could learn anything from a roman catholic?
How long have you been on this vendetta against the roman catholic church?
Do you see any relief in your spirit from denouncing them continually?
 
All denominations and people get something wrong theologically. Obviously, some get it more wrong than others and some get it so wrong that their eternal destiny is in hell.

The critical crux of the matter is: What is/are the source(s) of God instructions to man. You can exercise your beliefs perfectly according to the source you follow, but if the source is faulty, then you are treading through a mine field that could lead to eternal death.

The Eucharist​

When it comes to the Eucharist, which most Protestants call ‘The Lord’s Supper,” or “Communion,” the Roman Catholic Church holds to the doctrine of transubstantiation—the idea that the edible ritual elements used during the mass literally become the body and blood of Christ. Is this worship or idolatry?

The Magisterium​

This body also allows the church to make official pronouncements on contemporary issues which Scripture might not directly address. Are they speaking for God or man?

Tradition​

“…does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” If the R.C.s are correct, then the protestants are ignoring God.

Justification​

“What the Roman Catholic rejects is that there is an imputed righteousness of Christ to us at the moment of salvation, that we are counted as fully righteous in the sight of God”. Works salvation? Gal. 5:2 ?

Priesthood of All Believers​

That which was reserved just for the magisterium, the ability to bind and loose to forgive and withhold forgiveness through the sacraments and through penance and such, that was just the role of the priest. From Luther on, we have the ability to confess our sins to one another, pronounce forgiveness as the scripture says.” Man can pronounce forgiveness?

Veneration of the Saints and the Virgin Mary​

Roman Catholics see veneration, not as praying to the Saints and the Virgin Mary, but as praying through them. This is seen as similar to asking a brother or sister in Christ to pray for you. Dr. Svigel adds that departed saints are also “able to spill over their overabundance of grace to us.”

Furthermore, Dr. Horrell notes that the Virgin Mary is seen as “the mother of our Lord, and therefore she is the mother of his body, and his body is the church, so she is the mother of the church. He is the creator of all things. So she is the mother of angels. She is the mother of humanity, as is sometimes said.”

Source: https://voice.dts.edu/article/7-key...tant-and-catholic-doctrine-del-rosario-mikel/
The Catholics can add all kinds of things to what Scripture says but doesn't make then legitimate. Protestants believe the Bible, not the extra-Biblical inventions of the Catholic church. Sola scriptura.
 
All denominations and people get something wrong theologically. Obviously, some get it more wrong than others and some get it so wrong that their eternal destiny is in hell.

The critical crux of the matter is: What is/are the source(s) of God instructions to man. You can exercise your beliefs perfectly according to the source you follow, but if the source is faulty, then you are treading through a mine field that could lead to eternal death.

The Eucharist​

When it comes to the Eucharist, which most Protestants call ‘The Lord’s Supper,” or “Communion,” the Roman Catholic Church holds to the doctrine of transubstantiation—the idea that the edible ritual elements used during the mass literally become the body and blood of Christ. Is this worship or idolatry?

The Magisterium​

This body also allows the church to make official pronouncements on contemporary issues which Scripture might not directly address. Are they speaking for God or man?

Tradition​

“…does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” If the R.C.s are correct, then the protestants are ignoring God.

Justification​

“What the Roman Catholic rejects is that there is an imputed righteousness of Christ to us at the moment of salvation, that we are counted as fully righteous in the sight of God”. Works salvation? Gal. 5:2 ?

Priesthood of All Believers​

That which was reserved just for the magisterium, the ability to bind and loose to forgive and withhold forgiveness through the sacraments and through penance and such, that was just the role of the priest. From Luther on, we have the ability to confess our sins to one another, pronounce forgiveness as the scripture says.” Man can pronounce forgiveness?

Veneration of the Saints and the Virgin Mary​

Roman Catholics see veneration, not as praying to the Saints and the Virgin Mary, but as praying through them. This is seen as similar to asking a brother or sister in Christ to pray for you. Dr. Svigel adds that departed saints are also “able to spill over their overabundance of grace to us.”

Furthermore, Dr. Horrell notes that the Virgin Mary is seen as “the mother of our Lord, and therefore she is the mother of his body, and his body is the church, so she is the mother of the church. He is the creator of all things. So she is the mother of angels. She is the mother of humanity, as is sometimes said.”

Source: https://voice.dts.edu/article/7-key...tant-and-catholic-doctrine-del-rosario-mikel/
The above is incorrect. Not being a Catholic you have no authority to post anything that Catholics may or may not believe since you may be wrong about it...and you apparently are.

Religion cannot be googled.

(Edited by a moderator, some parts removed).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you know about catholicism, you must know that you are not officially a catholic.
A catholic must adhere to all doctrine taught by the catholic church.
You cannot disagree with its doctrine.
If you do, there is a procedure.
My priest friends know I don't agree with all Catholic doctrine...they don't really care.

I'd like to know exactly what pagan rituals they practice since I don't know of any.
You think they believe in salvation by works?
Every Christian religion believes in salvation by works after we attain faith.
Are you one of those persons that believes Jesus did everything for us so we could sit around and do nothing?

I agree that the church was doing things that were wrong at the time of Luther and before that.
But it's not like that today.
I mean, how many years do you want to go back?

At least you said that Luther wanted to RESTORE the CC to its original truth.
Some persons on this thread don't even know church history and yet want to comment on it.
I'll reply to only one thing that you wrote: every Christian religion believes in salvation by works after we attain faith.

That is not the case. Salvation is a gift of God; there is no salvation by works after we attain faith. (Or even before).

Ephjesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
 
The Catholics can add all kinds of things to what Scripture says but doesn't make then legitimate. Protestants believe the Bible, not the extra-Biblical inventions of the Catholic church. Sola scriptura.
Every denomination I know of adds things to what scripture says...
and that doesn't make it legitimate.

Who do you think put the bible together anyway?
It was the Catholic church in the 300's.

And sola scripture is NOT all we know about what Jesus taught.

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.


2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.



By our spoken word or by our letter.
By our spoken word.
Were they passed down somehow?
 
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