I do apologize Willie. I misunderstood. I assumed you thought you had the gift of tongues and believed it is for today. And was wondering Why you believed it. I always read your posts and you seem to have a level head on things and don't seem to "fight" as much. So I went to you thinking that you had it logically put together with scriptures. Again, I meant no disrespect to you.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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The Charismatic Church movement
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
J
Jesse
Guest
I believe all gifts are for today, too, and when I say all gifts I am not referring to how most people put the "all" on speaking in tongues. I know there are people who do speak in tongues today, but Paul did say that he desires other gifts above that of speaking in tongues. So, my prayers for myself have always revolved around praying for wisdom, edification, other gifts, I have once or twice asked God for the gift of tongues, but I do not put emphasis on it because of what Paul said.
I also don't believe all people will speak in tongues because it is a gift and not all receive every gift. I disregard most of what people say about how it is somehow proof that people are baptized in the Holy Spirit when they can speak in tongues - because it is a gift and not every person will receive this gift. In my own life I know I have gifts, I know I have the Holy Spirit, He makes Himself known to me, I know I am using my gifts in the way He has allowed.
Why does it seem that charismatics are so stuck on speaking in tongues? I do want to visit such a church, but it is a turn off for me sometimes because we all have gifts, God gives us these gifts, but somehow if a person doesn't speak in tongues we are less valuable or we lack in some area or we are not as "loved by God" as those who do speak in tongues - at least this is the attitude I have run across in my short time. What is the deal with it?
Thanks.
It sounds like a bunch of giberish to me.
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is for the Church today.
JLB
so does Spanish and any tounge I don't know.
smaller
Member
I never met as many lying spirits or blatant manipulating money grubbing deceivers as exist in the leaderships of the charismatic movements.
Which in the final analysis showed me everything I needed to know about tongues.
A lying tongue is worthless before God in any language, known or unknown.
All things are laid open and bare before Him before ever a word is spoken.
Which in the final analysis showed me everything I needed to know about tongues.
A lying tongue is worthless before God in any language, known or unknown.
All things are laid open and bare before Him before ever a word is spoken.
Sinthesis
Member
That is why, biblically, there needs to be a translation. Otherwise it's just vanity.
Either that, or maybe you just don't understand.
one doesn't have to know what they are saying. when im in pain and I speak in Spanish and Im praying and Im talking to god , do you need to know what im saying? NO, its tween me and god.
Kathi often you say you read the Scriptures literally ... where does this passage say tongues have ceased? If you say 1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away....Please tell me what to you understand to be perfect... Jesus was/is perfect before this passage was written....
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
totally agree
Not even 22 % of that video was her speaking with God. There was fully 78% where she spoke plain English. You couldn't understand that?
smaller
Member
Paul was clear on this:
1 Corinthians 14:19
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Sinthesis
Member
You know what you are saying, therefore if I should need to know you can translate because there is a translation. Yet if I need to know and nobody can translate? One's private communication with God does not have to be put on display as a spectacle. If it is not private then there needs to be a translation.
I know what you are saying. don't confuse speaking in tounges with the interpretation as being in all cases. if its that loud(which its seldom is) then its either a loud prayer by some, or a real deal for interpretation. being pentacostal one will know the difference as lead by the Holy Spirit.
the times I have prayed in the Spirit isn't loud. you could stand next to me and not hear me.
Malachi
Member
And alongside that 1 Cor 13:8 -- "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away".
What was true for the church at Corinth (59 AD) was no longer necessary after 90 AD. It is so simple, yet so difficult for many to grasp.
th1b.taylor
Member
I have bolded and highlighted the problem, 98% or better of the Church Membership Roll has not the Holy Spirit.
My apologies for the rather direct way I responded to your initial post. I, undoubtedly used far too personal of a way of wondering why I was being asked about proving something about tongues. You didn't offend me. I was just surprised that someone thought I might be a crusader for speaking in tongues.
I do speak in tongues. Have for nearly thirty years. So, of course I believe it is for today. I've never seen anything that says ANY of the so-called, "gifts", were turned off. Most of what I read seems to indicate just the opposite. That's why I (and most of my church) very actively go around allowing God to use us to bring healing to even unbelieving total strangers.
I began speaking in tongues one night as I sat, alone, in my car outside a religious meeting, thoroughly angry at God and all the phonies back inside the auditorium who were "being taught" how to speak in tongues.
I won't tell you the content of the stream of hatefulness and hurt that came out of my mouth that night. Directed at both the people inside, and at God. Then, suddenly, I began to speak something that sounded like a cross between German and American Indian. For a long time (years) I saw no purpose in it. But, eventually, I realized something.
I am a high strung, very emotional person, and I used to "react" far more than I "reasoned." That was where I was that night. Just beside myself. But after speaking in tongues for several minutes, a calm peace came on me that I was honestly surprised and amazed to feel. And that is what tongues has done for me ever since. No "power", no particular "wisdom", or any sort of "revelations" or insights........ just peace, (not as the world gives, but His peace)
You called it "put together with scriptures." Well, "No", not in the way you mean....... that I could somehow "prove" anything to anyone. But, when things come on me to the point that I feel there is no way out, and nothing will relieve the roiling turmoil I sometimes sense, tongues seem to be "the way out" that has been provided for me. After a short session of "babbling", as so many here like to call it, I always find myself returned to a calm rationality that my own emotions would almost never let me experience for maybe even, DAYS.
That seems to line up pretty well with at least two major scriptures, (peace given, and nothing placed on me that there isn't also a way out given), but that is all I can offer..... beyond, of course, the standard, pat references that you usually see written in some apologetic's post as a Biblical explanation.
Do I think what I experience is some sort of power "gifting?" No. I don't. In fact, other than the peace it instantly brings me, I would have to say that I see no additional benefit. At least in my life.
Again, sorry if I came off as blasting you. I really didn't mean it that way.
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smaller
Member
Most of the adherents in the charismatic movement wouldn't sit still for 5 minutes unless they are entertained by a big wig who mumbo jumbos things that make them feel good. But of course this is the case in a lot of churches. As Ed Sullivan used to say, "Tonight we have a really BIG SHEW."
I bear the mark of a cynic when it comes to any really big show and inherently distrust where the powers of men and money gather to breed their wares on the masses.
HOWEVER I will sit under hours of truthful Biblical discourse without hesitations.
What I wouldn't give to have sat here for the real inside accounts of this man:
Acts 20:
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Can we even imagine today a 24 hour preaching service? I am very thankful for what we have left of Paul as a hallmark of the faithful even though there may not appear to be many left.
I intentionally left out the sensational parts that many charismatics like to focus on. To me it is an aside.