The coming final judgment !

[David505]

All I can do is present the Truth, i cannot make you believe it.

FYI: Our moderator, Vic C., has made it clear that labeling adherents of certain doctrines (examples: postmillennial, amillennial, preterist., etc.) as "heretics" is uncalled for.

Likewise, those among us who adhere to opposing doctrines (examples: premillennial, prewrath, post-trib., etc.) appreciate similar courtesy.

So, while you're disseminating your "Truth" it would also be nice for you to refrain from characterizing opposing viewpoints as "falsehoods" (heresy) and referring to other people's considered opinions as the voices of "dreamers" who are "blind as bats".

 

[Vic C.]

FYI: Our moderator, Vic C., has made it clear that labeling adherents of certain doctrines (examples: postmillennial, amillennial, preterist., etc.) as "heretics" is uncalled for.

Thanks David, though I don't catch all the infractions. Sometimes I read something that was posted a week or two earlier and by that time it doesn't make sense to point it out.

But honestly, in this area of Theology, it's hard to clearly define who's right and who's wrong. We all have our beliefs and all feel some of the beliefs of others may be false, but I wouldn't define it as heresy.

Now, I personally do have my heretical reservations that deny a future coming of Christ and the beliefs related to that position, but I just don't throw around the "h" word at every chance.

 

[David505]

FYI: Our moderator, Vic C., has made it clear that labeling adherents of certain doctrines (examples: postmillennial, amillennial, preterist., etc.) as "heretics" is uncalled for.

Thanks David, though I don't catch all the infractions. Sometimes I read something that was posted a week or two earlier and by that time it doesn't make sense to point it out.

But honestly, in this area of Theology, it's hard to clearly define who's right and who's wrong. We all have our beliefs and all feel some of the beliefs of others may be false, but I wouldn't define it as heresy.

Now, I personally do have my heretical reservations that deny a future coming of Christ and the beliefs related to that position, but I just don't throw around the "h" word at every chance.

Thanks Vic C.,

Agreed.

I was referring to two of your comments along this line. The first, regards: Is The "he" of Daniel 9:27 Our Lord Jesus as follows:

“While I respect opinions and allow many positions to be discussed here, we shouldn't think of a multitude of believers over hundreds and hundreds of years of Christendom, up to and including the Reformers and beyond, as being deceived.

Those who are of the amil position may not be deceived; they just view prophecy and eschatology in a different way. Instead of accusing them of being deceived, show them where you feel they are wrong and I'm sure they will show you why they believe what they believe.â€

Your second comment regards: Who is the He in Daniel 9:27 as follows:

“Since most here already know what I believe concerning this belief, I probably won't post much, unless someone calls my belief heresy.â€

I agree that lively disagreement makes for a lively forum. As you say, we should refrain from accusations of deception (and the implied prima facie superiority), and avoid name-calling. Instead, we should, “show them where you feel they are wrong and I'm sure they will show you why they believe what they believe.â€

 

[savedbygrace57]

He is coming to Judge the world in righteousness !

Acts 17:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

This certainly speaks to this Man also being God for such a work He has been appointed to ps 96:13

Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

ps 98:9

Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

Yes this Man in acts 17 31 is also Jehovah !

Now, lets look at some passages that indicate the nature of this Judgment in the Last day !

Matt 25:

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

In this Last Day Judgment, Jehovah Jesus will assign each person their eternal destiny appointed them from the foundation.

Another passage depicting the same event rev 20:

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God [Jehovah Jesus]; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Future punishment for the wicked will be executed at this time Matt 13:

30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares [or goats], and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
​

 

[MMarc]

So, when the apostles said it was very near to them, they meant something different than you do?

And this present generation.... when do you say it began
?

The apostles meant the end of Jerusalem that was destroyed. Saved by grace, you are on the right track.
There are two resurrections and judgement is here, all we need to do is look at the signs of the season.

The Lord returns in darkness as a thief at trumpets to begin His second work and is revealed later on during Tabernacles (Ingathering) to His bride whom He resurrected. Like the first time with the Spring feasts.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mmark:

Saved by grace, you are on the right track.

You are not !

 

[Thranduil]

mmark:mmark:

Saved by grace, you are on the right track.



You are not !

We're not saved by Grace?

 

[Thranduil]

What happened to the forum putting peoples quotes in separate boxes to avoid confusing who said what?

 

[savedbygrace57]

We're not saved by Grace?

Some people are.

 

[Thranduil]

Some people are.

I find your response rather vague and your forum name rather ironic in relation to your statements, but, whatever.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I find your response rather vague and your forum name rather ironic in relation to your statements, but, whatever.

I dont know why its vague, some people are saved by grace and some are not.

 

[MMarc]

mmark:



You are not !

Please elaborate, as to where I erred.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Please elaborate, as to where I erred.

I already have, read my post's in the thread ! Are you in agreement with them ?

 

[Thranduil]

I already have, read my post's in the thread ! Are you in agreement with them ?

Um, which post is it you refer to? Again you are vague. I think you assume we know your thoughts that you do not express in writing.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Um, which post is it you refer to? Again you are vague. I think you assume we know your thoughts that you do not express in writing.

You can start with the OP, since I began the thread.

 

[Thranduil]

You can start with the OP, since I began the thread.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Thanks for clarifying.

You are welcome, let me know when you complete reading my points in the thread.

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Thousand year Gap !

Will there be a one thousand year gap between the 2nd coming of Christ and The Judgment of the Last day ? Is there a 1000 yr period between the resurrection of the Just and the resurrection of the unjust ? Does the scripture clearly teach this ? The answer is NO, there will be no gap of a thousand years between the second coming and the final judgment, those believing this have been deceived by you know who, In Fact, the scriptures plainly sets forth these eschatological events as occurring on the same day, and those teaching otherwise, are not taught of God ! The New Testament scriptures, the gospels and the epistles show forth a consolidated picture of the parousia and Judgment day by Jesus Christ 2 tim 4:

1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

And His coming and appearing are one and the same per 1 jn 2:28

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Yes, the second coming of Christ, the rapture or the gathering together as per Matt 24:

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2 thess 2:

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming and appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

1 thess 4:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Resurrection of the righteous and the wicked dan 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jn 5:

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

and the Judgment of the righteous and the wicked rev 11:

18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

All these occur on the same day and or in close proximity of each other.​

 

[Elijah674]

No Thousand year Gap !

Will there be a one thousand year gap between the 2nd coming of Christ and The Judgment of the Last day ? Is there a 1000 yr period between the resurrection of the Just and the resurrection of the unjust ? Does the scripture clearly teach this ? The answer is NO, there will be no gap of a thousand years between the second coming and the final judgment, those believing this have been deceived by you know who, In Fact, the scriptures plainly sets forth these eschatological events as occurring on the same day, and those teaching otherwise, are not taught of God ! The New Testament scriptures, the gospels and the epistles show forth a consolidated picture of the parousia and Judgment day by Jesus Christ 2 tim 4:

1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

And His coming and appearing are one and the same per 1 jn 2:28

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Yes, the second coming of Christ, the rapture or the gathering together as per Matt 24:

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2 thess 2:

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming and appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

1 thess 4:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Resurrection of the righteous and the wicked dan 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jn 5:

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

and the Judgment of the righteous and the wicked rev 11:

18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

All these occur on the same day and or in close proximity of each other.
​

Your post say's that that is the way that it is! My post says that this is the way that 'i' see it! (there is a difference)

When Christ comes the Saved had been judged first! (Eccl. 12:13-14 & The 'time' has come that judgement [must begin] at the house of God: and if it FIRST Begin at us], what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?)

The wicked & the saved were in the 'reward that Christ brought with Him', (Rev. 22:11-12) the wicked are slain when Christ comes by His brightness. (2 Thess. 2:8-9.. note the time/frame on to verse 12!)

And only the DEAD Rightous come forth, and then, both wicked & rightous have their reward, Life Eternal & the wicked will be dead for the 1000 years, and then will be raised up. (see 1 Thess. 4:13-17)

Then the rightous will indeed, have a part in the executional phase of the wicked. (1 Cor. 6:2-3! & Luke 12:47-48) When the 1000 years are ended the Heavenly New Jerusalem comes down to earth, but will not set down until the wicked have their promised resurection at this time, to die the second death.

This is the Lake of fire that destroy's not only the wicked + satan & crew, + even the heavens where mankind has polluted! See Obadiah 16 for it's Eternal meaning. Compare Nah. 1:9!

God will then create a New Heaven & a New Earth, and then the Heavenly City [will set down in the promised land!] Zech. 14:3-5.

When Christ COMES AGAIN.. PRESENTLY! The only question that will be needed is seen in Eccl. 12:13-14! Yes or No. The 1000 years is for record Book judgement in the time/length of the justified execution called God's Strange Act!

--Elijah here

 

[savedbygrace57]

No Thousand year Gap !

Scripture teaches that when Christ returns, He will take vengeance on the ungodly Jude 1:


14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

2 thess 1:


7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

They will receive everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord per 2 thess 1:9

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Whereas, the Saints will be gathered unto Him to forever be with Him in Glory 1 thess 4:

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

All the Saints will admire and Glorify Christ at His coming; and when will this be ? When The LORD Jesus is revealed from Heaven

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

So in that day refers to all that goes before to include Taking vengeance on the wicked and to be Glorified and Admired in the Saints..and notice, it is in the day [singular] Now is it a 1000 yr gap between the destruction of the wicked and the Glorification of the Saints ? No sir, they both happen in that day..​