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The destruction of the temple in 70AD, how do futurists deal with this?

Jesus didn't say anything about a statue, neither did Daniel. "Abomination of desolation" is plain English. The Bible isn't cryptic like your leaders try to make it out to be, so that you depend on them for understanding. The abomination of desolation isn't code for an object with mystical powers.
Along with scripture you are proving yourself to be just as anemic in knowledge of "plain English" as well.
An abomination is a descriptor of something, person , place , or thing.
As in :
The pizza I ordered last night was an abomination
The color he painted his house is an abomination
That memorial they had for Sally was an abomination.

Example Sentences​

Some people view the sculpture as art while others see it as an abomination.
Most critics decried the remake of the classic film as an abomination

Recent Examples on the Web:
The 700-pound abomination of a statue known as Lobsta Mickey had seemingly vanished into the ether, enduring only in Atlas Obscura, and our nightmares.—Jon Chesto, BostonGlobe.com, 26 Dec. 2022Herschel Walker is an abomination of a civics lesson.—Robin Givhan, Washington Post, 30 Nov. 2022
My biggest complaint is the god-awful abomination of a stem from Satori.—James Huang, Outside Online, 25 Oct. 2022

No need to thank me for cracking the code of this word for you .
I saw the need.
So after getting00 up to speed, what is your most reasonable guess, based in your biblical knowledge, as to what this abomination is that Jesus says is standing in the holy place?
Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place.

No wrong answer here, I say it is a statue or image.
You say it is not. So saying what it is not you must have some thought in your head what it is ?
Won't you share?
PS, if you need help with the English term STAND I will be glad to help/
 
Acts 1:20 kjv
20 . For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Luke 22:3 kjv
3.Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

If Judas was one of the 12, his temple was defiled when the abomination entered him.

2 Timothy 3:2 kjv
2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Sounds like a lot of desolation to a redneck.

eddif
 
Along with scripture you are proving yourself to be just as anemic in knowledge of "plain English" as well.
An abomination is a descriptor of something, person , place , or thing.
As in :
The pizza I ordered last night was an abomination
The color he painted his house is an abomination
That memorial they had for Sally was an abomination.

Example Sentences​

Some people view the sculpture as art while others see it as an abomination.
Most critics decried the remake of the classic film as an abomination

Recent Examples on the Web:
The 700-pound abomination of a statue known as Lobsta Mickey had seemingly vanished into the ether, enduring only in Atlas Obscura, and our nightmares.—Jon Chesto, BostonGlobe.com, 26 Dec. 2022Herschel Walker is an abomination of a civics lesson.—Robin Givhan, Washington Post, 30 Nov. 2022
My biggest complaint is the god-awful abomination of a stem from Satori.—James Huang, Outside Online, 25 Oct. 2022

No need to thank me for cracking the code of this word for you .
I saw the need.
So after getting00 up to speed, what is your most reasonable guess, based in your biblical knowledge, as to what this abomination is that Jesus says is standing in the holy place?
Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place.

No wrong answer here, I say it is a statue or image.
You say it is not. So saying what it is not you must have some thought in your head what it is ?
Won't you share?
PS, if you need help with the English term STAND I will be glad to help/
What if the abomination is a bloody sacrifice that is neither a statue nor an image? What if thugs murdered the high priest as he was doing his priestly duty in the holy place? That would make anyone there or who heard of it desolate. And shedding human blood in the holy place is an abomination.
 
What if the abomination is a bloody sacrifice that is neither a statue nor an image? What if thugs murdered the high priest as he was doing his priestly duty in the holy place? That would make anyone there or who heard of it desolate. And shedding human blood in the holy place is an abomination
For me I believe it will have to be a statue or image that stands for a protracted period of time.
I don't see that matching up with what you have said.
Although that does not rule out the possibility in my mind of human sacrifice being done along with it.
 
For me I believe it will have to be a statue or image that stands for a protracted period of time.
I don't see that matching up with what you have said.
Although that does not rule out the possibility in my mind of human sacrifice being done along with it.
Well, at least we have reached a peaceable end. I, frankly speaking, do not think a statue fits the description. A statue can easily be removed and so do not see desolation as the result. I think the cold blooded murder of a priest or the high priest standing in the holy place doing his duty would cause desolation. But we disagree and that is OK too.
 
When they say "this generation" means a future generation, that's a lie. It's not a difference of opinion. It's willful disregard for the facts of grammar to promote their false doctrines, doctrines that have a history of causing nothing but harm. All their arguments are based on lies, but they're so fundamentally dishonest that they don't see it. All their arguments are designed to cause harm, but no big deal. No willingness to acknowledge the historical fruits of their doctrine? But, me being honest, intolerable!
You really need to learn how to rightly divide the Word
 
When they say "this generation" means a future generation, that's a lie. It's not a difference of opinion. It's willful disregard for the facts of grammar to promote their false doctrines, doctrines that have a history of causing nothing but harm. All their arguments are based on lies, but they're so fundamentally dishonest that they don't see it. All their arguments are designed to cause harm, but no big deal. No willingness to acknowledge the historical fruits of their doctrine? But, me being honest, intolerable!
Ok
To see something:
Happens two ways
1 To see the ultimate fulfillment off in the future.

2. To see a prophetic vision of something that is going to happen in the future.

If a person does not believe in the future being seen in the past, then the vision is a lie.

Isaiah 53 is a description of the life of Jesus before Jesus is born. Is the prophet seeing the life of Jesus? Yes. Has it happened yet?
Yes and no.

To the prophet seeing the future it is a reality.

To a person who must touch Jesus it has not happened yet.

It is really strange in a sense.

eddif
 
Ok
To see something:
Happens two ways
1 To see the ultimate fulfillment off in the future.

2. To see a prophetic vision of something that is going to happen in the future.

If a person does not believe in the future being seen in the past, then the vision is a lie.

Isaiah 53 is a description of the life of Jesus before Jesus is born. Is the prophet seeing the life of Jesus? Yes. Has it happened yet?
Yes and no.

To the prophet seeing the future it is a reality.

To a person who must touch Jesus it has not happened yet.

It is really strange in a sense.

eddif
I think I better correct/ add to something I said.

Isaiah 53 is probably prophetic words without total seeing/understanding. There are visions and there are also prophetic words.

I see through dark sunshades myself. Job heard and spoke truth only to realize that the truth he spoke of could be seen.

Dreams and visions both exist. So some of what I say. Is not totally clear.

eddif
 
Well, at least we have reached a peaceable end. I, frankly speaking, do not think a statue fits the description. A statue can easily be removed and so do not see desolation as the result. I think the cold blooded murder of a priest or the high priest standing in the holy place doing his duty would cause desolation. But we disagree and that is OK too.
The one element that must be factored in all of this is Satan's greatest desire.
To be worshiped in the place of God .
Murdering is in his realm of course, but killing does not afford him the satisfaction he desires most of all.
To be worshiped as God, and in the place of God.
The holy place being the only spot on earth that God claimed as His own place to meet with his people to be worshiped.

Isa 14:14
I will be like the most High.
 
The one element that must be factored in all of this is Satan's greatest desire.
To be worshiped in the place of God .
Murdering is in his realm of course, but killing does not afford him the satisfaction he desires most of all.
To be worshiped as God, and in the place of God.
The holy place being the only spot on earth that God claimed as His own place to meet with his people to be worshiped.

Isa 14:14
I will be like the most High.
Except there is no land that is especially holy anymore. It actually says his desire is to steal, kill and destroy although I don’t disagree with you.
 
Except there is no land that is especially holy anymore. It actually says his desire is to steal, kill and destroy although I don’t disagree with you.
God has claimed that hill as His, and has never renounced His claim on it .
It is the most disputed and contested piece of land on earth for that very reason.

Psa 2:6
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
 
God has claimed that hill as His, and has never renounced His claim on it .
It is the most disputed and contested piece of land on earth for that very reason.

Psa 2:6
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
That doesn’t say he has “holy land” on earth. Did Jesus ever indicate God was interested in real estate? Did He ever teach that particular ground is holy?
 
"my holy hill" says it all for me.
It's okay if we disagree on that.
Psa 2:6
.... my holy hill....
You think God has ONE Holy hill in the whole world? The Bible actually says "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." Why did he destroy his holy hill, by the way. How is a hill holy? Where exactly is it? Where the Muslims have built their temple, that deeply unholy and downright evil faith? How come Jesus never ever talked about a holy piece of land? How come no one was told to keep it holy which means set aside?

What I read is that Jesus told us to be holy. I read in many places of "holy men of God."

But yes, we can disagree about that one. I am afraid your position is extremely think though. You needn't answer my questions above, they are just to move you to think about that position.
 
Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place.

No wrong answer here, I say it is a statue or image.

I'm sure I know what it is, and it's not a statue or an image. We figured it out on a forum thread 8 years ago. It was the most exciting thread I was ever a part of. I don't think now is the time for me to explain it here.

Matthew 24's abomination, is not the same thing as Luke 21's "Jerusalem surrounded by armies.

It's not a statue, or an image. It's not the Dome of the Rock. Statue or image comes from the Hal Lindsey school right? He got that from Revelation 13?

"and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.​

It's not a statue that comes to life, it's more like a statute,
  • a rule of an organization or institution.
    "the appointment will be subject to the statutes of the university"
  • archaic
    (in biblical use) a law or decree made by a sovereign, or by God.
Like on the side of a police car where it says: "deeds speak".

"so that the image of the beast (who was wounded (past tense) by the sword) might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.​

That word for worship (proskuneo) also means to submit to, or obey.

The "image of the beast" is more like a carbon copy of the beast that WAS wounded by the sword in the middle ages, but is now brought to life again but with the crowns moved from the religious "heads", to the political "horns". Authority is transferred from the "church", to the state, of the church state entity.

Being able to identify that "head" healed from a mortal wound, also helps to see how the other 6 must be something of the same kind. With blasphemous names written on them also points to a religious nature.

"One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed​

So explaining Matthew 24's abomination, (let the reader understand), might be like trying to explain to Thomas Jefferson why his White House is now all alight with multi colors:

ocr


Peaceful Sabbath.
 
I'm sure I know what it is, and it's not a statue or an image. We figured it out on a forum thread 8 years ago. It was the most exciting thread I was ever a part of. I don't think now is the time for me to explain it here.

Matthew 24's abomination, is not the same thing as Luke 21's "Jerusalem surrounded by armies.

It's not a statue, or an image. It's not the Dome of the Rock. Statue or image comes from the Hal Lindsey school right? He got that from Revelation 13?

"and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.​

It's not a statue that comes to life, it's more like a statute,
  • a rule of an organization or institution.
    "the appointment will be subject to the statutes of the university"
  • archaic
    (in biblical use) a law or decree made by a sovereign, or by God.
Like on the side of a police car where it says: "deeds speak".

"so that the image of the beast (who was wounded (past tense) by the sword) might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.​

That word for worship (proskuneo) also means to submit to, or obey.

The "image of the beast" is more like a carbon copy of the beast that WAS wounded by the sword in the middle ages, but is now brought to life again but with the crowns moved from the religious "heads", to the political "horns". Authority is transferred from the "church", to the state, of the church state entity.

Being able to identify that "head" healed from a mortal wound, also helps to see how the other 6 must be something of the same kind. With blasphemous names written on them also points to a religious nature.


"One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed​

So explaining Matthew 24's abomination, (let the reader understand), might be like trying to explain to Thomas Jefferson why his White House is now all alight with multi colors:

ocr


Peaceful Sabbath.
Thanks for the input.
 
That doesn’t say he has “holy land” on earth. Did Jesus ever indicate God was interested in real estate? Did He ever teach that particular ground is holy?

Looks like a couple few times.

"And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him. - Daniel 11:45​

Even though it doesn't exactly read "holy place", the place, the earth, where Moses stood was holy, so he was told to take off his sandals.

“Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” - Exodus 3:5​

Same thing in Joshua. Take off your sandals.

"The commander of the LORD’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so. - Joshua 5:15​

In these examples the ground, the earth, had become holy. Because God said it was. God was there. When God does a thing it becomes holy, not that the thing is holy so that God does it.

In Numbers God gave the ground, the earth, surrounding the outer walls of Jerusalem to the Levites. From the foot of the outer wall, out 1500 feet, in a circumference all around Jerusalem was the ground given by God to the Levites.

"You shall also measure outside the city on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, with the city in the center. This shall become theirs as pasture lands for the cities. - Numbers 35:5​

Because the Levites were the priestly tribe, they didn't share in the same gifting of land like the other tribes did. But they still needed some land to graze their animals and plant some gardens. God gave them the land 1500 ft. all around the outside perimeter of the Old City of Jerusalem. That's where the Romans had to stand to do the various siege events.

Rewind back to the days of the Cestius siege. When Cestius began the first siege, he was standing outside the perimeter wall of Old Jerusalem. The ground, the earth, that he stood on to set up his siege qualified as a "holy place" because it was the land given by God Himself to the Levites for their gardening and cattle grazing. 1500 feet outward from the city wall.


ocr


"The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits all around. - Numbers 35:4

But then for some reason Cestius abandoned the siege. Somewhere I read that he got a message that a Cesar had died and needed to go back to Rome. When the Jews saw him leaving, they took chase. They attacked Cestius from behind and the Romans took heavy casualties. But this was the BIGGIE sign for the Christians from Luke 21. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. The early Christians who remembered Jesus' words were able to walk right out of the open gates of the city unmolested. The Romans were gone. The Old Time Jewish armies were gone. Anybody could just take a casual stroll out the open gates.

"During Gallus's withdrawal his column was ambushed near Beth Horon, suffering very heavy losses. He was only able to reach Antipatris with the loss of about 6,000 men and a large amount of war material.[2] Judea was now almost entirely lost to Roman control.​

Then the Jews came back and celebrated their victory. They thought that they won and God was on their side. Then events in Jerusalem would continue on as normal. They thought everything was going to be fine. But they were in a deadly countdown of days, a tribulation of the Matrix, where things seemed normal, like they do right now, but were not what they seemed to be. From 9/66 to 4/70. About three years and change. And then when Titus came and set up the real siege, the door was sealed, there would be no more escape.

If the "holy place" were some place inside the Old Jerusalem temple, it would be too late to "flee" if they waited to "see it standing" there.

So if we can consider the first century "wing of abominations", to be something seemingly as unorthodox as the Roman armies standing in the land given by God to the Levites, then it might be equally surprising to see where the "holy place" is, a place prepared by God, where our end time Abomination is standing right now where it ought not to be. (Let The Reader Understand)

The temple had ceased to be the "holy place" since the day that the curtain was rent, and to this very day. Relax the criteria and consider other possibilities for what might be a "holy place" in our appointed time of the end. When God prepares a place for the "earth" to help the "woman", that place by default, becomes a holy place.

Peaceful Sabbath.
 
Looks like a couple few times.

"And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him. - Daniel 11:45​

Even though it doesn't exactly read "holy place", the place, the earth, where Moses stood was holy, so he was told to take off his sandals.
It was Holy because God was there, not because that plot was always special no matter what. A herdsman happening to step there won’t need to remove his sandles.
“Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” - Exodus 3:5​

Same thing in Joshua. Take off your sandals.

"The commander of the LORD’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so. - Joshua 5:15​
Because God was there. It’s not holy dirt.
In these examples the ground, the earth, had become holy. Because God said it was. God was there. When God does a thing it becomes holy, not that the thing is holy so that God does it.
When God leaves it’s no longer holy.
In Numbers God gave the ground, the earth, surrounding the outer walls of Jerusalem to the Levites. From the foot of the outer wall, out 1500 feet, in a circumference all around Jerusalem was the ground given by God to the Levites.

"You shall also measure outside the city on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, with the city in the center. This shall become theirs as pasture lands for the cities. - Numbers 35:5​

Because the Levites were the priestly tribe, they didn't share in the same gifting of land like the other tribes did. But they still needed some land to graze their animals and plant some gardens. God gave them the land 1500 ft. all around the outside perimeter of the Old City of Jerusalem. That's where the Romans had to stand to do the various siege events.

Rewind back to the days of the Cestius siege. When Cestius began the first siege, he was standing outside the perimeter wall of Old Jerusalem. The ground, the earth, that he stood on to set up his siege qualified as a "holy place" because it was the land given by God Himself to the Levites for their gardening and cattle grazing. 1500 feet outward from the city wall.


ocr


"The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits all around. - Numbers 35:4

But then for some reason Cestius abandoned the siege. Somewhere I read that he got a message that a Cesar had died and needed to go back to Rome. When the Jews saw him leaving, they took chase. They attacked Cestius from behind and the Romans took heavy casualties. But this was the BIGGIE sign for the Christians from Luke 21. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. The early Christians who remembered Jesus' words were able to walk right out of the open gates of the city unmolested. The Romans were gone. The Old Time Jewish armies were gone. Anybody could just take a casual stroll out the open gates.

"During Gallus's withdrawal his column was ambushed near Beth Horon, suffering very heavy losses. He was only able to reach Antipatris with the loss of about 6,000 men and a large amount of war material.[2] Judea was now almost entirely lost to Roman control.​

Then the Jews came back and celebrated their victory. They thought that they won and God was on their side. Then events in Jerusalem would continue on as normal. They thought everything was going to be fine. But they were in a deadly countdown of days, a tribulation of the Matrix, where things seemed normal, like they do right now, but were not what they seemed to be. From 9/66 to 4/70. About three years and change. And then when Titus came and set up the real siege, the door was sealed, there would be no more escape.

If the "holy place" were some place inside the Old Jerusalem temple, it would be too late to "flee" if they waited to "see it standing" there.
When a preist entered the Holy if holies unworthily, he was immediately struck dead. That is what happens to sinners in holy ground. They don’t get a message to leave.
So if we can consider the first century "wing of abominations", to be something seemingly as unorthodox as the Roman armies standing in the land given by God to the Levites, then it might be equally surprising to see where the "holy place" is, a place prepared by God, where our end time Abomination is standing right now where it ought not to be. (Let The Reader Understand)

The temple had ceased to be the "holy place" since the day that the curtain was rent, and to this very day. Relax the criteria and consider other possibilities for what might be a "holy place" in our appointed time of the end. When God prepares a place for the "earth" to help the "woman", that place by default, becomes a holy place.

Peaceful Sabbath.
How come God himself doesn’t defend these supposed holy places? Answer: because the ground isn’t Holy.
 
When God leaves it’s no longer holy.

I wonder about that too. I wouldn't want to bet my life on it. If an innocent person were to tread on those historical locations, without knowing it, without being warned? To him it is not sin.

"But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.
Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.​

I continue to insist that a "place prepared by God", by default becomes a holy place.

"and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days​

How come God himself doesn’t defend these supposed holy places?

Scripture has to be fulfilled.

These events are baked in the cake.

When the dragon saw that he was cast down, the first thing that he would want to do is to go after the "woman", God's People.

And then plan on attacking the "place prepared by God" for His Christian Church.

u45AS7g.png


"But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.​

God allows it. He said the wheat will grow with the tares until the harvest.

"Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.​

The only One that could give the Dragon the power to do these signs on behalf of, or in the presence of, the composite beast is God.

God allows the Dragon to give his power, and his throne, and his great authority to the composite beast for 42 months.

We might not like it.

But that's the deal.

Peaceful sabbath.
 
You think God has ONE Holy hill in the whole world? The Bible actually says "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." Why did he destroy his holy hill, by the way.
Jesus is in complete agreement with the Word concerning His one holy hill.
If you can name another " hill " that Good claims in scripture to be "holy" I would like to see it.
I am not aware of God naming any other except "Zion"
We can the specific locale because of the term " Zion"
Psa 2:6
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
The hill of Zion is still there .
Only the structures on it have been destroyed .
Which by the way is exactly what God foretold would happen if the people turned away from Him.
The destruction of them is God's prophesy fulfilled .
It is still His and He is far from done with it.
 
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