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The destruction of the temple in 70AD, how do futurists deal with this?

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Can you please be specific? I asked you if you acknowledge that the event described as armies surrounding the city was the fulfillment to the christians then.
I know what you are getting at from a preterist view. I'm sure there were a lot of Christians in Jerusalem in 70AD and I am sure the Roman army that took Jerusalem captive at that time slaughtered many that were Christians. But according to Matthew 24:2, not adding to or taking away, Jesus was only speaking about the destruction of the temple that was desecrated being that of the fulfillment of what Jesus told the disciples that were showing Him the buildings. It was a fulfilment of only one prophecy, but not all of the end time prophecies that must come first before Christ returns.
 
So you’re not waiting for a new temple at all? Is that right? Just something sacrificial in the Dome of the Rock land?
Well, I suspect that a time will come when ‘politically correct’ leaders try to come up with a world religion that satisfies the scruples of all the major religions. I rather doubt that it would be a Jewish temple or a Muslim dome or a Christian cathedral for that matter. Something would be built and it would be fancy I’m sure. But it would be blasphemous because God no longer dwells in a temple made of stone. We are the temple.
 
Well, I suspect that a time will come when ‘politically correct’ leaders try to come up with a world religion that satisfies the scruples of all the major religions. I rather doubt that it would be a Jewish temple or a Muslim dome or a Christian cathedral for that matter. Something would be built and it would be fancy I’m sure. But it would be blasphemous because God no longer dwells in a temple made of stone. We are the temple.
There seems to be no indication of such but I know this is the theory. There’s also no gain for them in doing so.
 
I know what you are getting at from a preterist view. I'm sure there were a lot of Christians in Jerusalem in 70AD and I am sure the Roman army that took Jerusalem captive at that time slaughtered many that were Christians. But according to Matthew 24:2, not adding to or taking away, Jesus was only speaking about the destruction of the temple that was desecrated being that of the fulfillment of what Jesus told the disciples that were showing Him the buildings. It was a fulfilment of only one prophecy, but not all of the end time prophecies that must come first before Christ returns.
I actually was discussing an historical event, not a viewpoint. It a known fact that not a single christian was killed when Jerusalem fell because they believed the armies surrounding the city WAS the fulfillment of that Matthew 24 prophesy and left town. They thought the destruction in judgement on Jerusalem had come. Knowing something about that destruction, it’s difficult to say they were mistaken.

If you don’t believe me that this is actual history, I’d encourage you to research it.
 
There seems to be no indication of such but I know this is the theory. There’s also no gain for them in doing so.

It’s been put forward before by new-ager types. Anyway, here is a short article from my website.

Enjoy.
 
It’s been put forward before by new-ager types. Anyway, here is a short article from my website.

Enjoy.
When people in power suggest it then it’s a matter of interest. There’s no benefit for politicians to do so. It’s like religious people talk about building a new temple in Jerusalem but no politician in the whole world is going to take on the Muslims for that site. My personal belief is God sealed that piece of real estate on purpose so no jewish temple can ever be rebuilt.
 
I actually was discussing an historical event, not a viewpoint. It a known fact that not a single christian was killed when Jerusalem fell because they believed the armies surrounding the city WAS the fulfillment of that Matthew 24 prophesy and left town. They thought the destruction in judgement on Jerusalem had come. Knowing something about that destruction, it’s difficult to say they were mistaken.

If you don’t believe me that this is actual history, I’d encourage you to research it.
What is your source for what you say is a known fact there were not any Christians living in Jerusalem in 70AD.
The only thing I could find was what Eusebius saying the Christians fled Jerusalem before the Roman siege in 70AD as they went to Pella, but even then many say they can not trust his writings. I can only assume there were Christians living there, but can not be positive either way.

I do agree that many thought the destruction of Jerusalem was in judgement as it certainly was as many Jews never repented from going after other gods even though God gave them 490 years to repent, but that's another topic.

You seem to refute sources like Wikipedia, the Britannica or any encyclopedia for historical facts so what do you use for your research.
 
What is your source for what you say is a known fact there were not any Christians living in Jerusalem in 70AD.
The only thing I could find was what Eusebius saying the Christians fled Jerusalem before the Roman siege in 70AD as they went to Pella, but even then many say they can not trust his writings. I can only assume there were Christians living there, but can not be positive either way.
Thank you for looking but I find it difficult that you believe those who dismiss the first christian who undertook to write down the history of the church while believing Ireneus, the only one who wrote John was sentenced under Dominitian, who also wrote that Jesus died in his fifties. Other ancient sources say it was under Nero. It’s easier to dismiss Iraeneus who was wrong. Why don’t you doubt those who choose to cast aspersions on Eusebius? There are those who say the entire Biblical accounts are doubtful. We don’t believe them either.
I do agree that many thought the destruction of Jerusalem was in judgement as it certainly was as many Jews never repented from going after other gods even though God gave them 490 years to repent, but that's another topic.
I agree but why wouldn’t God want to rescue his own out of that judgement but instead leave them to suffer too? And it’s a fact that Roman armies surrounded the city and then left. Since the source even named city they fled to, why doubt this account? It all fits. Jesus told them Jerusalem would be destroyed. He loved them enough to tell them how to avoid this destruction. In your view he didn’t but punished them along with the rebellious Jews. Why doubt this beautiful account of a prophesy happening, believed to be about to happen and Christians believing the teaching of Jesus so strongly that they acted upon it at great cost. It’s a beautiful example of faith. Would you really prefer to believe God just let his own suffer with no escape?

And that leaves to a question, if a modern future army is going to surround Jerusalem connected to the Antichrist, how is anyone going to flee? And if it’s a worldwide problem, where are they going to flee to?
You seem to refute sources like Wikipedia, the Britannica or any encyclopedia for historical facts so what do you use for your research.
Well I went to university and we had to find original sources not opinion pieces from encyclopedias. Those are sometimes opinion pieces, sometimes verified and sometimes not. If you read in wikipedia pieces about christian matters, you can tell what the author believed. This m and it’s not information but an opinion.
 
Thank you for looking but I find it difficult that you believe those who dismiss the first christian who undertook to write down the history of the church while believing Ireneus, the only one who wrote John was sentenced under Dominitian, who also wrote that Jesus died in his fifties. Other ancient sources say it was under Nero. It’s easier to dismiss Iraeneus who was wrong. Why don’t you doubt those who choose to cast aspersions on Eusebius? There are those who say the entire Biblical accounts are doubtful. We don’t believe them either.

I agree but why wouldn’t God want to rescue his own out of that judgement but instead leave them to suffer too? And it’s a fact that Roman armies surrounded the city and then left. Since the source even named city they fled to, why doubt this account? It all fits. Jesus told them Jerusalem would be destroyed. He loved them enough to tell them how to avoid this destruction. In your view he didn’t but punished them along with the rebellious Jews. Why doubt this beautiful account of a prophesy happening, believed to be about to happen and Christians believing the teaching of Jesus so strongly that they acted upon it at great cost. It’s a beautiful example of faith. Would you really prefer to believe God just let his own suffer with no escape?

And that leaves to a question, if a modern future army is going to surround Jerusalem connected to the Antichrist, how is anyone going to flee? And if it’s a worldwide problem, where are they going to flee to?

Well I went to university and we had to find original sources not opinion pieces from encyclopedias. Those are sometimes opinion pieces, sometimes verified and sometimes not. If you read in wikipedia pieces about christian matters, you can tell what the author believed. This m and it’s not information but an opinion.

I never said God let His own suffer with no escape as God will always make a way where there seems to be no way.

Here is my take on what you have asked me.

Jesus foretells the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:1-2 but he never said when it would happen as it was yet future and happened in 70AD

Now when you read the rest in Matthew 24:4-8 Jesus is speaking about the beginning of sorrows and continue in vs. 9 Jesus said: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. So some who heed his warning to flee will be kept safe while others that are His own that did not flee His warning will die a martyr's death if they do not renounce Christ.

Further down in vs. 15 the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel has been debated for years. Some believe it was in 70AD while others believe it will be the time during the end of days when the son of perdition takes his seat on that very Temple mount of God for 3 1/2 years causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death, 2Thessalonians 2:1-4, but we know from scripture there will never be another Temple built on that very spot where the second one use to stand.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. In the end of days Israel will be attcked one last time.

The abomination will be that of a New World Order with a singular governmental power that controls all economic, political, military, educational, environmental and religious authority that takes its seat in Jerusalem, Isaiah 14:12, 13; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. This new government is a Global power giving false hope to the entire world as even the very elect of God will be deceived if possible, Matthew 24:24.

To answer your question about where will we flee to I believe you will find your answer in Rev 12. John is shown a great sign in heaven as he sees a vision of a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet. The sun is representative of the glory and brilliance of Gods righteousness that surrounds her and protects her. Under her feet the moon which is illustrative of eternity, light, Gods faithfulness in His Son Jesus who is the greater light of the gospel age as Jesus being the light of the world that shines in darkness, but the darkness can not comprehend the light, Psalms 72:5-7; Isaiah 2:3-5; Jeremiah 31:35-37; Isaiah 30:26-33; John 1:1-5.

The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.

The true congregation of God can be symbolized here as a mother that has all here children gathered in one place for safety which in this case is under the wings of the almighty God, Psalms 91. She cries out like a woman in labor as the pain of her persecutions has become too great to bear as she waits to be delivered from her persecutors, 2 Timothy 4:18; 2 Peter 2:9; Colossians 1:13.

The woman here represents the true congregation of God that flees to the wilderness for 1290 days just as Jesus forewarned her to do so in Matthew 24:15, 16. Jesus said when you see the abomination that causes desolation stand in the holy place Jesus is speaking about the son of perdition (the beast out of the earth, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13) taking a literal seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount of God where the Dome of the Rock presently stands.

The world cries out for a savior but rejects the one already given to them as they fall prey to that which comes under Satan’s control that is even secretly working in the world today. Jesus warned us to flee into the mountains/wilderness from this abomination and not to enter in and be yoked with the darkness as there is no communion with light and darkness, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. This will be the greatest time of faith as we rely on God to supply our need like He provided for Moses and the Israelites that wondered out in the dessert after their exodus.
 
I never said God let His own suffer with no escape as God will always make a way where there seems to be no way.
Yes you did. Read your post. You says the Christians died with all the rest when Jerusalem fell. I told you they left town and you don’t believe the historical source. So which is it? Did they leave believing the prophesy was coming true or stay and suffer?
Here is my take on what you have asked me.

Jesus foretells the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24:1-2 but he never said when it would happen as it was yet future and happened in 70AD
He says before that generation died out. But if you think it’s future, that is, to happen again, a worldwide problem, where are the citizens of Jerusalem going to flee to?
Now when you read the rest in Matthew 24:4-8 Jesus is speaking about the beginning of sorrows and continue in vs. 9 Jesus said: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. So some who heed his warning to flee will be kept safe while others that are His own that did not flee His warning will die a martyr's death if they do not renounce Christ.
Flee to where? And that is exactly what happened in the past, by the way?
Further down in vs. 15 the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel has been debated for years. Some believe it was in 70AD while others believe it will be the time during the end of days when the son of perdition takes his seat on that very Temple mount of God for 3 1/2 years causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death, 2Thessalonians 2:1-4, but we know from scripture there will never be another Temple built on that very spot where the second one use to stand.
Then how can there be an abomination of desolation set up in the temple if there is none. And the Romans did this in the temple, btw.
During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. In the end of days Israel will be attcked one last time.
Who wants Jerusalem? I know that’s your futurist view but who wants that place and for what?
The abomination will be that of a New World Order with a singular governmental power that controls all economic, political, military, educational, environmental and religious authority that takes its seat in Jerusalem, Isaiah 14:12, 13; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. This new government is a Global power giving false hope to the entire world as even the very elect of God will be deceived if possible, Matthew 24:24.
That’s your futurist view for sure.
To answer your question about where will we flee to I believe you will find your answer in Rev 12. John is shown a great sign in heaven as he sees a vision of a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet. The sun is representative of the glory and brilliance of Gods righteousness that surrounds her and protects her. Under her feet the moon which is illustrative of eternity, light, Gods faithfulness in His Son Jesus who is the greater light of the gospel age as Jesus being the light of the world that shines in darkness, but the darkness can not comprehend the light, Psalms 72:5-7; Isaiah 2:3-5; Jeremiah 31:35-37; Isaiah 30:26-33; John 1:1-5.
You think a metaphor answers that question? What you’re doing is running for cover under a pile of references none of which answer my question. If you leave Jerusalem you go to a physical place in earth.

The woman is the church through the centuries. And if you believe the christians didn’t escape the undeniable fulfillment of Jesus’ prophesies, why do you think future christians will?
The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.

The true congregation of God can be symbolized here as a mother that has all here children gathered in one place for safety which in this case is under the wings of the almighty God, Psalms 91. She cries out like a woman in labor as the pain of her persecutions has become too great to bear as she waits to be delivered from her persecutors, 2 Timothy 4:18; 2 Peter 2:9; Colossians 1:13.

The woman here represents the true congregation of God that flees to the wilderness for 1290 days just as Jesus forewarned her to do so in Matthew 24:15, 16. Jesus said when you see the abomination that causes desolation stand in the holy place Jesus is speaking about the son of perdition (the beast out of the earth, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13) taking a literal seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount of God where the Dome of the Rock presently stands.

The world cries out for a savior but rejects the one already given to them as they fall prey to that which comes under Satan’s control that is even secretly working in the world today. Jesus warned us to flee into the mountains/wilderness from this abomination and not to enter in and be yoked with the darkness as there is no communion with light and darkness, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. This will be the greatest time of faith as we rely on God to supply our need like He provided for Moses and the Israelites that wondered out in the dessert after their exodus.
That is just refusing to answer where they go when they leave the city. Piling up the references that have nothing to do with the answer won’t help.
 
But I will end my questioning your position with this post. I’m playing with fire and I just got one powerful mod angry at me. Best stick to the posters who just express their views and wield no power.

(I do expect further posts to be deleted by angry mod. It is the usual response. It’s just the price you pay for posting here.)
During your quiet peaceful time. Skim Read Ezekiel for the people who were marked on their forehead. These people left Jerusalem to avoid slaughter.

There was eternity before time
There was a timeline
The timeline will cease
Eternity will start again

In time I see people killed in the Ezekiel attack of Jerusalem.

In time you see the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD .

I think both times existed. I think there are others that see other dates and prophetic times.

If (I did say if) some people died in Jerusalem during Ezekiel’s time (?) this is not the most important death in the Bible.

The beginning of the permanent removal of tares is at the Resurrection (but bound up to be burned later). And honestly that statement will make no sense to 90% of readers. And, honestly, I do not know how to totally express / describe it.

We see through dark sunshades. Do we see anything? Yes. Is a shadow not clear? True a shadow is not clear.

We are all struggling to see all things. It takes time.

My hope is we can work through this with no disasters. There are a mixed group posting. Sons and Daughters both prophesy.

May the eyes off our understanding be opened.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Paired prophecy.
The destruction of evil with the deliverance of a remnant.

This can be physical or spiritual.

Some destructions of evil (by God).

I am headed toward OP

Cast out Adam and Eve out of Eden.
Parallel
Cast evil angels out of Heaven.

Flood destroyed evil people
Parallel
Tares removed at end of age

Remnant saved:
Noah and family
Lot and family
Young people in wilderness (almost every adult died).
Ezekiel’s dispersion saved marked people from death.

So Now we face the OP

What was destroyed
What was saved

I realize the lack of enough examples and a whole book written to explain, but the physical can be destroyed and the spiritual preserved.

One problem is seeing the treasures hidden inside the earthen vessels.

Today some are offspring of the remnant. Do we see the treasure?

eddif
 
Yes you did. Read your post. You says the Christians died with all the rest when Jerusalem fell. I told you they left town and you don’t believe the historical source. So which is it? Did they leave believing the prophesy was coming true or stay and suffer?

He says before that generation died out. But if you think it’s future, that is, to happen again, a worldwide problem, where are the citizens of Jerusalem going to flee to?

Flee to where? And that is exactly what happened in the past, by the way?

Then how can there be an abomination of desolation set up in the temple if there is none. And the Romans did this in the temple, btw.

Who wants Jerusalem? I know that’s your futurist view but who wants that place and for what?

That’s your futurist view for sure.

You think a metaphor answers that question? What you’re doing is running for cover under a pile of references none of which answer my question. If you leave Jerusalem you go to a physical place in earth.

The woman is the church through the centuries. And if you believe the christians didn’t escape the undeniable fulfillment of Jesus’ prophesies, why do you think future christians will?

That is just refusing to answer where they go when they leave the city. Piling up the references that have nothing to do with the answer won’t help.
It was you who asked how do futurist deal with this and I have given my futurist understanding so you should have known that futurist are not going to agree with preterist so I will withdraw from the conversation.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.
 
Not knowing much about prophesy, and knowing even less about what might happen on Temple Mount in the future, (it can only be conjecture at this moment in time,) I tend to avoid the subject, but I do know the Jews have always expected an earthly kingdom, and I read on the internet that the scriptures below have not yet been fulfilled. If that is the case, and these scriptures describe a united earthly kingdom and the return of the ten tribes which is already happening, then those living at the time will know that it won’t be long before Christ returns IMO.

Jer 50:4 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. Eze 37:20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

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Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
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You are at the right spot IMHO

Can you see when this was?
Can you see where it was fulfilled
Can you tell the real spiritual ultimate fulfillment of this event?

I think I know, but I have come to a frustrating point, where I get silence when I give (my?) explanation.

I got the fact you claim ignorance , but do you have an opinion? (Since you quoted the scripture).

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
You are at the right spot IMHO

Can you see when this was?
Can you see where it was fulfilled
Can you tell the real spiritual ultimate fulfillment of this event?

I think I know, but I have come to a frustrating point, where I get silence when I give (my?) explanation.

I got the fact you claim ignorance , but do you have an opinion? (Since you quoted the scripture).

Mississippi redneck
eddif
I leave opinions to others. I'm done for now and thanks.
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