The difference in the rapture and the second coming

[reba]

Yup there is a huge difference between fitting my beliefs into scripture and fitting scripture to my beliefs..

 

[The Poly Grip Kid]

The doctrine of the Rapture is not as confusing or complicated as some may believe. We simply need to look at the actual Scriptures.
John 14:1-3
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 John 3:1-3
1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

What are we taught in these Scriptures?
1. Christ will return from Heaven for His saints in order to take them to Heaven with Him. IOW There will be a specific coming of Christ FOR His saints (John 14:1-3).
2. When Christ comes for His saints, He will descend with a shout, a trumpet will sound and an archangel will also shout (presumably to call all the saints home). This will be "the last trumpet" for the saints (Note: this has nothing to do with judgments) (1 Cor 15:52; 1 Thess 4:16)
3. When He comes many believers will be alive, and those who are alive will be "changed" -- transformed, perfected, glorified (1 Cor 15:51).
4. At the same time the dead will be changed and their dead bodies will be raised "incorruptible", but also transformed, perfected, glorified (1 Cor 15:52).
5. The souls and spirits of those who died in Christ will be brought by Him to be joined to their incorruptible bodies (1 Thess 4:14).
6. The living saints will not precede or go ahead of those who are being resurrected, but the dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thess 4:15,16).
7. Then the living saints will rise up "together" with them to meet the Lord in the air (atmosphere). The "clouds" are the clouds of glorified saints, since they will pass through the stratosphere as well as outer space to go directly to Heaven (1 Thess 4:17).
8. We shall all resemble Christ and we shall also see Him as He now is -- glorious with the brightness of God's glory (1 Jn 3:2).
9. We will be eternally with Christ as He promised in John 14:3 (1 Thess 4:17).

Now why is it so hard to understand that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ WITH His saints (Rev 19:11-21), since none of this happens after the Great Tribulation when Christ comes to wage war on the ungodly?
Jude 1:14,15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Amen!
The calling up of the saints and the second coming of Christ Jesus are two separate events I think the thing most people are stuck on is when will the event of the calling up of the saints will occur the most popular subscription is pre tribulation rapture which the origin of this doctrine started with John Darby in 1830, Many claim its origin began in the eighteenth century by Puritan preachers however there is no evidence to support this claim.
The early Church held to and taught the pre millennium doctrine I think the apostles and the early Church had it right and John Darby was taking scripture out of context to support this new pre tribulation doctrine which I am leaning toward it being a false doctrine. which can be dangerous to those who hold to the Pre tribulation doctrine that they could fall away from the faith when the tribulation begins and the rapture does not occur.
As I mentioned I held to the doctrine for many years until I stopped listening to those teaching and preaching the doctrine and started studying the scriptures for my self When you read the books of the bible that prophesy the end times those books should always be read word for word, page to page. Darby took a few verses from one book or epistle and combined it with another verse or three to a completely different book or epistle to fabricate this pre tribulation doctrine.
Rightly dividing the word of truth is taking scripture that is parallel to one another not to cut and paste until you get the result you are trying to accomplish. this is exactly what John Darby did when he dreamed up this doctrine sorry to say no matter how much I wish pre trib doctrine is truth I believe it is a false doctrine .I can give you all the scripture that Darby and other pre trib theologians use to try to support this doctrine.
I absolutely mean no offense to those who hold to this doctrine but I believe Christians will go through the tribulation and will be called up before Gods wrath is poured out on the earth not before the tribulation starts.
.

 

[JLB]

Amen!
The calling up of the saints and the second coming of Christ Jesus are two separate events I think the thing most people are stuck on is when will the event of the calling up of the saints will occur the most popular subscription is pre tribulation rapture which the origin of this doctrine started with John Darby in 1830, Many claim its origin began in the eighteenth century by Puritan preachers however there is no evidence to support this claim.
The early Church held to and taught the pre millennium doctrine I think the apostles and the early Church had it right and John Darby was taking scripture out of context to support this new pre tribulation doctrine which I am leaning toward it being a false doctrine. which can be dangerous to those who hold to the Pre tribulation doctrine that they could fall away from the faith when the tribulation begins and the rapture does not occur.
As I mentioned I held to the doctrine for many years until I stopped listening to those teaching and preaching the doctrine and started studying the scriptures for my self When you read the books of the bible that prophesy the end times those books should always be read word for word, page to page. Darby took a few verses from one book or epistle and combined it with another verse or three to a completely different book or epistle to fabricate this pre tribulation doctrine.
Rightly dividing the word of truth is taking scripture that is parallel to one another not to cut and paste until you get the result you are trying to accomplish. this is exactly what John Darby did when he dreamed up this doctrine sorry to say no matter how much I wish pre trib doctrine is truth I believe it is a false doctrine .I can give you all the scripture that Darby and other pre trib theologians use to try to support this doctrine.
I absolutely mean no offense to those who hold to this doctrine but I believe Christians will go through the tribulation and will be called up before Gods wrath is poured out on the earth not before the tribulation starts.
.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


The Resurrection/Rapture are One Event.



JLB

 

[smaller]

Air and Clouds.

Air in the spiritual sense does not mean the air we breathe.

Clouds in the spiritual sense are not clouds dangling in the air we breathe.

These two terms are used to describe the popularized rapture theory. Is there even such a term in the scriptures as rapture?

The Second Coming is the revealing of Christ IN US, our hope of glory. God in Christ will not be standing in front of your eyes. He Himself will be IN US, looking OUT of our TEMPLE, our BODY. This actually is already a Spiritual Fact. We just have a very hard time coming to grips with that reality because our AIR is FOWLED/FOULED.

If the Second Coming is the revealing of Christ IN US, it will not be seen in the physical/external senses. Just as Our Savior came the first time, largely without recognition in the external senses.

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

So, what is UP with the AIR?

The 'air' has issues.

Mark 4:4
And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Luke 8:5
A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Are we talking about literal birds in the AIR we breathe here? Uh, no.

What then is being shown here with fowls in the air?

Pertaining to Mark's statement in 4:4:

14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Pertaining to Luke's statement in 8:5

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Are we seeing the location of the AIR yet? Uh, yeah, it's in the heart, inside, where the Kingdom of God is meant to be and there, the spiritual air is HIDDEN from sight. Fowled, pardon my pun.

Who is this character?

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

There is presently a temporal ruler, a fowl in the spiritual sense, in the AIR in the spiritual sense. That FOWL is SATAN in the AIR. We do not see Satan flying around in the AIR. It is a spirit of disobedience within the temple. In Christ we are to RULE over that spirit until He Arrives in full spiritual battle array to DESTROY that enemy.

When we are caught up in the AIR, The RULER will have been changed and be in charge WITHIN, in The Kingdom of God within US.

Matthew 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Luke 17:35
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left

Luke 17:36
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 13:
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

The Kingdom of God is WITHIN us. What will be gathered OUT? Who will be TAKEN?

These are very simple explanations. Clearly shown. Yet hidden from flesh eyes. Even when it is set forth before our eyes. We just can NOT HEAR.

When Jesus comes AS lightning, it is an allegorical expression of an internal reality, even shining within from EAST to WEST. Even that LIGHT that destroys the enemy with the BRIGHTNESS of HIS COMING. When Jesus comes AS a thief in the night, again, ALL allegorical expressions. He is not coming in the darkness of the external sense, but within, where it is DARK. And His enemies will not see or know that HE IS coming. These are expressed in allegories.

The Pharisees of the N.T. made the same external fleshly mistakes about The Messiah. They were looking on the OUTSIDE at the kingdom of this world, expecting a worldly power player who could KILL all their enemies.

It will not be 'like' that. The enemies of the Kingdom within are WITHIN. It is WITHIN that He Will come, gather and destroy.

And it will not be as ANY try to see on the outside in air and clouds or any other given number of external fantasies. The temple of our body will be turned into A CLEANSED TEMPLE without enemy occupancy within. It shall be SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.

"BEHOLD, I COME QUICKLY."

If this INTERNAL sight is taken UP, any reader can also track the precursors to these matters, which are transpiring.

 

[JLB]

Air and Clouds.

Air in the spiritual sense does not mean the air we breathe.

Clouds in the spiritual sense are not clouds dangling in the air we breathe.

These two terms are used to describe the popularized rapture theory. Is there even such a term in the scriptures as rapture?

The Second Coming is the revealing of Christ IN US, our hope of glory. God in Christ will not be standing in front of your eyes. He Himself will be IN US, looking OUT of our TEMPLE, our BODY. This actually is already a Spiritual Fact. We just have a very hard time coming to grips with that reality because our AIR is FOWLED/FOULED.

If the Second Coming is the revealing of Christ IN US, it will not be seen in the physical/external senses. Just as Our Savior came the first time, largely without recognition in the external senses.

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

So, what is UP with the AIR?

The 'air' has issues.

Mark 4:4
And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Luke 8:5
A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Are we talking about literal birds in the AIR we breathe here? Uh, no.

What then is being shown here with fowls in the air?

Pertaining to Mark's statement in 4:4:

14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Pertaining to Luke's statement in 8:5

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Are we seeing the location of the AIR yet? Uh, yeah, it's in the heart, inside, where the Kingdom of God is meant to be and there, the spiritual air is HIDDEN from sight. Fowled, pardon my pun.

Who is this character?

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

There is presently a temporal ruler, a fowl in the spiritual sense, in the AIR in the spiritual sense. That FOWL is SATAN in the AIR. We do not see Satan flying around in the AIR. It is a spirit of disobedience within the temple. In Christ we are to RULE over that spirit until He Arrives in full spiritual battle array to DESTROY that enemy.

When we are caught up in the AIR, The RULER will have been changed and be in charge WITHIN, in The Kingdom of God within US.

Matthew 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Luke 17:35
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left

Luke 17:36
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 13:
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

The Kingdom of God is WITHIN us. What will be gathered OUT? Who will be TAKEN?

These are very simple explanations. Clearly shown. Yet hidden from flesh eyes. Even when it is set forth before our eyes. We just can NOT HEAR.

When Jesus comes AS lightning, it is an allegorical expression of an internal reality, even shining within from EAST to WEST. Even that LIGHT that destroys the enemy with the BRIGHTNESS of HIS COMING. When Jesus comes AS a thief in the night, again, ALL allegorical expressions. He is not coming in the darkness of the external sense, but within, where it is DARK. And His enemies will not see or know that HE IS coming. These are expressed in allegories.

The Pharisees of the N.T. made the same external fleshly mistakes about The Messiah. They were looking on the OUTSIDE at the kingdom of this world, expecting a worldly power player who could KILL all their enemies.

It will not be 'like' that. The enemies of the Kingdom within are WITHIN. It is WITHIN that He Will come, gather and destroy.

And it will not be as ANY try to see on the outside in air and clouds or any other given number of external fantasies. The temple of our body will be turned into A CLEANSED TEMPLE without enemy occupancy within. It shall be SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.

"BEHOLD, I COME QUICKLY."

If this INTERNAL sight is taken UP, any reader can also track the precursors to these matters, which are transpiring.

Can you show us in this verse that Paul writes and teaches about the Rapture and Resurrection, where you see two different events?


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Paul says we who are alive will be caught up together with them, the Resurrected ones.

Together with them in the clouds... we, all the Church, will we with the Lord.


The Resurrection/Rapture are One Event.



JLB

 

[smaller]

Can you show us in this verse that Paul writes and teaches about the Rapture and Resurrection, where you see two different events?

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Paul says we who are alive will be caught up together with them, the Resurrected ones.

Together with them in the clouds... we, all the Church, will we with the Lord.

The Resurrection/Rapture are One Event.

JLB

I observed some matters in the prior post. The air is not the air we breathe nor are the clouds clouds in the sky. They are spiritual matters, both. And they are purposefully Divinely blocked from the view of flesh/carnal eyes. The two sights will remain always at odds. There is no remedy between them. There is no unity between them. It is not possible.

Nevertheless, God Himself has Ordained, first the natural (carnal/fleshly), then the spiritual. And to that Divine Construct, I bow to the very solid fact of the construct. No offense intended to any believer. We can see only how we are allowed to see. It is pointless to request a fleshly sight to see spiritual matters. We can point and say see? But there is nothing tangible to see, see? :nod

 

[The Poly Grip Kid]

ed xThat isess i shoul exactly what my Bible says too yes the resurrection and the calling up is the same event. I suppose i


should have mentioned that in my post.

Air and Clouds.

Air in the spiritual sense does not mean the air we breathe.

Clouds in the spiritual sense are not clouds dangling in the air we breathe.

These two terms are used to describe the popularized rapture theory. Is there even such a term in the scriptures as rapture?

The Second Coming is the revealing of Christ IN US, our hope of glory. God in Christ will not be standing in front of your eyes. He Himself will be IN US, looking OUT of our TEMPLE, our BODY. This actually is already a Spiritual Fact. We just have a very hard time coming to grips with that reality because our AIR is FOWLED/FOULED.

If the Second Coming is the revealing of Christ IN US, it will not be seen in the physical/external senses. Just as Our Savior came the first time, largely without recognition in the external senses.

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

So, what is UP with the AIR?

The 'air' has issues.

Mark 4:4
And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Luke 8:5
A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Are we talking about literal birds in the AIR we breathe here? Uh, no.

What then is being shown here with fowls in the air?

Pertaining to Mark's statement in 4:4:

14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Pertaining to Luke's statement in 8:5

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Are we seeing the location of the AIR yet? Uh, yeah, it's in the heart, inside, where the Kingdom of God is meant to be and there, the spiritual air is HIDDEN from sight. Fowled, pardon my pun.

Who is this character?

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

There is presently a temporal ruler, a fowl in the spiritual sense, in the AIR in the spiritual sense. That FOWL is SATAN in the AIR. We do not see Satan flying around in the AIR. It is a spirit of disobedience within the temple. In Christ we are to RULE over that spirit until He Arrives in full spiritual battle array to DESTROY that enemy.

When we are caught up in the AIR, The RULER will have been changed and be in charge WITHIN, in The Kingdom of God within US.

Matthew 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Luke 17:35
Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left

Luke 17:36
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 13:
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

The Kingdom of God is WITHIN us. What will be gathered OUT? Who will be TAKEN?

These are very simple explanations. Clearly shown. Yet hidden from flesh eyes. Even when it is set forth before our eyes. We just can NOT HEAR.

When Jesus comes AS lightning, it is an allegorical expression of an internal reality, even shining within from EAST to WEST. Even that LIGHT that destroys the enemy with the BRIGHTNESS of HIS COMING. When Jesus comes AS a thief in the night, again, ALL allegorical expressions. He is not coming in the darkness of the external sense, but within, where it is DARK. And His enemies will not see or know that HE IS coming. These are expressed in allegories.

The Pharisees of the N.T. made the same external fleshly mistakes about The Messiah. They were looking on the OUTSIDE at the kingdom of this world, expecting a worldly power player who could KILL all their enemies.

It will not be 'like' that. The enemies of the Kingdom within are WITHIN. It is WITHIN that He Will come, gather and destroy.

And it will not be as ANY try to see on the outside in air and clouds or any other given number of external fantasies. The temple of our body will be turned into A CLEANSED TEMPLE without enemy occupancy within. It shall be SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.

"BEHOLD, I COME QUICKLY."

If this INTERNAL sight is taken UP, any reader can also track the precursors to these matters, which are transpiring.

i have one question for you: do you believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus?

 

[Edward]

I try not to use got questions. I prefer to be able answer things for myself. if I need to use a commentary then I got to them. ie matthew henry and adam Clarke.

This is the absolute best post in the thread.

Ok scripture told me another saying so lets inquir of The Lord to see if what I believe is correct and what u believe is correct.

He will tell u in a dream and just tell me what u dreamt

How dare you lay this into the Lords hands! Don't you know we're all smart humans and can figure all this out for our-self?!
...and to release the Lord to speak through a dream, in walk? Unheard of! You're not just a believer, are you? You have belief too.

 

[smaller]

ed xThat isess i shoul exactly what my Bible says too yes the resurrection and the calling up is the same event. I suppose i

should have mentioned that in my post.

i have one question for you: do you believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus?

The ressurection pertaining to His Body or the remainder of His Body, believers?

Yes to both. One has already transpired. And one to complete.

 

[JLB]

I observed some matters in the prior post. The air is not the air we breathe nor are the clouds clouds in the sky. They are spiritual matters, both. And they are purposefully Divinely blocked from the view of flesh/carnal eyes. The two sights will remain always at odds. There is no remedy between them. There is no unity between them. It is not possible.

Nevertheless, God Himself has Ordained, first the natural (carnal/fleshly), then the spiritual. And to that Divine Construct, I bow to the very solid fact of the construct. No offense intended to any believer. We can see only how we are allowed to see. It is pointless to request a fleshly sight to see spiritual matters. We can point and say see? But there is nothing tangible to see, see? :nod

Are you trying to say that the Physical Resurrection of the dead in Christ is not a tangible reality?

Every eye will see Jesus Christ return in His post Resurrected form.

Besides all this, that is not the question I asked.

This event is one event that happens together, whereby the Raptured ones and caught up with the Resurrected ones and are all together with the Lord, in the clouds.


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

This Resurrection/Rapture are One Event based on The teaching of the Apostle Paul.



JLB

 

[smaller]

Are you trying to say that the Physical Resurrection of the dead in Christ is not a tangible reality?

Tangible by what measures? A New Body, assuredly. Certainly nothing that we can imagine presently other than as a dim sight.

Every eye will see Jesus Christ return in His post Resurrected form.

Never said otherwise.

Besides all this, that is not the question I asked.

This event is one event that happens together, whereby the Raptured ones and caught up with the Resurrected ones and are all together with the Lord, in the clouds.

Already noted. It will not be 'in the air' we breathe and the clouds hanging in the air we breathe, as duly noted for view in the post put up regarding air, with the many associated details therein.

Our life is presently hid with God in Christ in any case:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

We are already seated with Him:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[JLB]

The ressurection pertaining to His Body or the remainder of His Body, believers?

Yes to both. One has already transpired. And one to complete.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:21-23


There is only one Resurrection for the dead in Christ.

... in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive...those who are Christ's at His coming.


The Old Testament saints that were raised and were taken to heaven did not receive their Resurrection immortal body, that will shine like the sun, and never die.

These will return with Jesus to receive their bodies in Resurrection form, which will be clothed with immortality.


One Resurrection for the dead in Christ.

All will stand before the Judgement seat of Christ when He returns with all His holy angels and is seated upon His throne here on earth.


JLB

 

[smaller]

There is only one Resurrection for the dead in Christ.

I don't hold to the soul sleep theory if that's where yer going. God Is God of the Living.

The Old Testament saints that were raised and were taken to heaven did not receive their Resurrection immortal body, that will shine like the sun, and never die.

Hard for me to see it that way, seeing Elijah and Moses in the mount of transfiguration for example. Is our portion as members of The Body completed? Not yet. That doesn't mean construction via additions hasn't been going on for quite awhile already though. I suspect that it's an 'out of time' view as we presently perceive time.

 

[JLB]

smaller said -

Already noted. It will not be 'in the air' we breathe and the clouds hanging in the air we breathe, as duly noted for view in the post put up regarding air, with the many associated details therein.

Sorry brother,

your "explanation" makes no sense, is not scriptural and doesn't pertain to the subject.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

This Resurrection/Rapture are One Event based on The teaching of the Apostle Paul.

The resurrected ones and Raptured ones shall be caught up together.

caught up together.

Together with the Lord.


The Resurrection and rapture are the same event and occur at the same time; at the Coming of the Lord.

Our life is presently hid with God in Christ in any case:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

We are already seated with Him:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

These scriptures do not pertain to the Resurrection of the physically dead.


JLB

 

[reba]

This verse along with a few others was confusing to me as a kid...
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Mommy Mommy does that mean we will live on the clouds?

The other one that really messed me up Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. I could not 'get' past why dont we want Him... 2

 

[jasonc]

This verse along with a few others was confusing to me as a kid...
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Mommy Mommy does that mean we will live on the clouds?

The other one that really messed me up Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. I could not 'get' past why dont we want Him... 2

lol. you were taking that literally.

 

[reba]

I never thought of it that way but i guess so... The how, what, and when of eternity are not as important as the where.

 

[jasonc]

I never thought of it that way but i guess so... The how, what, and when of eternity are not as important as the where.

funny you should mention that if I could post sermons from my church on this stuff I would.

 

[JLB]

This verse along with a few others was confusing to me as a kid...
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Mommy Mommy does that mean we will live on the clouds?

The other one that really messed me up Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. I could not 'get' past why dont we want Him... 2

It would be confusing if the verse said we were live in the clouds, but it doesn't.

We will all be caught up to meet Him in the clouds on His way to Jerusalem.

Amen.


JLB

 

[reba]

Remember i was a kid... :tongue I know it doesn't now...
Is Jerusalem in the clouds ?
The mix of literal and spiritual we all use in understanding scripture is something else...