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The difference in the rapture and the second coming

Themessengeroftruth said:
Whether I speak with ye or you hitherto or there it does not make a difference

If you understand than u do if U don't than u don't

For I tell u I spoken to some people plainly on different sites and in person and they sill couldn't understand so why not speak in riddles?
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1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue
 
Themessengeroftruth said:
I don't know what she dreamed she can tell me and what do u mean not there in your opinion?
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Seems i remember you saying God wuold give an answer in her dream.. Guess not...

Not IMO Post #61....you see a rapture in the verses you posted in Post #61 in my opinion there is not a rapture there
 
reba said:
Seems i remember you saying God wuold give an answer in her dream.. Guess not...

Not IMO Post #61....you see a rapture in the verses you posted in Post #61 in my opinion there is not a rapture there
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I had a vision but I don't know what it means neither do I think it was about khati and

The word rapture is not there but how be it?

If there is men who will bury men after the day if The Lord and there be a thousand year reign

How will god save them from fire?

After the thousand tear reign satan will be loses as he is loosed now

But during he willbe shut up in chains

But after The Lord says brine stone will reign out of heaven

None ever wondered how he will save his new flock in those days
 
Kathi said:
Got questions takes the credit for it.It is very Biblical and follows Scripture.


The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).

3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).

The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Rapture-Second-Coming.html#ixzz3CgkxfKef
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Using scripture (without Revelation), show me where Jesus as a man told people they must one day return to Earth with him.


Eternity > 1000 years
 
sojourner4Christ said:
.



Even though I have been a Post-Tribulationist for many years and have been repeatedly and viciously attacked by Pre-Tribulationists, I am consistently surprised at how many believers continue to view the various 'Thief In The Night' passages in the Scriptures as being descriptive of a pretribulation rapture. Through widespread usage, the evocative phrase has evolved into a somewhat universal description of the much touted hypothetical secret coming of Christ to evacuate believers before the tribulation begins.

Christian books, multitudes of prophecy tapes, dramatic video productions, and a host of other media have been utilizing the theme for many years. For example, a feature film entitled Thief In The Night has been extensively screened (on film & video) to Christian audiences throughout North America -- even as the word thief has found its way into the titles of numerous rapture-oriented prophecy books and magazine articles. Clearly, a large portion of the church believes the various thief verses in the Bible provide Scriptural support for the fictitious doctrine of the pre-trib rapture.

The fact is, the verses in the New Testament that reference Christ's coming as a thief, without exception, refer to His second coming -- at the very end of the tribulation.

The word thief actually appears 27 times in the entire Bible. It's found 12 times in the Old Testament, and 15 times in the New Testament. None of the OT references are germane to the study as they typically describe the sanctions and prohibitions against theft; e.g. Thou Shalt Not Steal. (Ex 20:15).

In the New Testament, all 15 occurrences of the word thief are relevant, so they are representative of the intent and meaning inherent in the phrase 'come like a thief,' or 'thief in the night.' At the Olivet mountain, Jesus taught that "... if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up." (Mat 24:43). In this account, which is echoed in Luke, we see the concept of watching for the unexpected arrival of the thief.

However, what most rapturists miss here is the obvious fact that the thief is spoken of in a negative context for his actions are hardly desirable as his activity is textually limited to the 'breaking up' of the goodman's house -- hardly descriptive of someone coming on a mission of rescue and evacuation. It's also important to remember that this particular reference about the thief COMING TO DESTROY appears in the very chapter wherein Christ is articulating the events surrounding His return -- Matthew 24.

In the next occurrence of the word thief, we see Jesus responding to His betrayal and subsequent arrest by the Jewish and Roman authorities. As Judas led the armed guards to his former master, Christ asked "Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me." (Mat 26:55). Here the text illustrates that thieves were considered to be dangerous enough that their arrest warranted 'swords and staves.'

In the book of John, Jesus further elaborates on the characteristics of a "... thief (who) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy...." (John 10:10). It is apparent from this passage that the term thief connotes someone that does far more than simply steal. The thief also comes to destroy. Indeed, when one remembers the two thieves that were ultimately crucified next to Christ, it's not difficult to see that the title was applied to persons that came to perpetrate an act of violence or pure destruction, for Roman society considered thieves a sufficient threat that they crucified them.

Moving on to the epistles, while the rapture crowd chooses to characterize the allusion to a thief as an indication of the immanency of the so-called rapture, the Apostle Peter chooses to describe the coming of the thief in the night as incredibly destructive, highly visual, and even very noisy:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with a fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (2 Pet 2:10).

This vivid description doesn't sound at all like what one might expect from a 'secret coming' that suddenly and discriminately snatches up the faithful believer, and leaves everyone else in the clutches of the Antichrist. After all, if the earth is "burned up" and the heavens pass away with a 'big bang' WHEN this "thief" comes, how could there then be 7 years left for the tribulation?

In addition to these citations from Matthew, Luke, John, and Peter, the Apostle Paul also taught that the coming of the thief in the night would be accompanied by a tremendous and final destruction. In a favorite passage frequently cited by the group I've come to refer to as The Rapture Cult, Paul writes that "... the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." (1 Thes 5:2, 3). Once again, the arival of the thief in the night coincides with "sudden destruction."

When both Peter and Paul describe the arrival of the thief in the night as an event of tremendous destruction, they both state that true believers will not be caught unawares for they will be watching for the return of The Lord.

Paul actually uses the word thief again in the very next verse following his first reference to the thief in the night. He writes that the true believer is "... not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief." (1 Thes 5:4).

This verse succinctly states that believers WILL be on the earth when "the day" arrives, but they'll be prepared for that day for they've been WATCHING and anticipating the Lord's arrival. This is precisely what Christ instructed the errant church in Sardis to do in order to renew their right standing with Him: Repent and WATCH.

The allusion to Christ's return as a thief actually occurs twice in Revelation. In fact, the similarity between The Thief of Sardis in Revelation 3 and the thief mentioned in Revelation 16 is striking. Both verses are the actual words of Jesus. Both verses refer to Christ coming as a thief. Both verses admonish believers to watch. Both verses state that believers are to keep their garments from being "defiled."

Obviously, both verses merit a close look.

When The Thief of Sardis (Jesus) states that those who do not repent and watch "will... not know what hour (He) will come upon thee" (Rev 3:3), He states that His coming will then be "as a thief." (Rev 3:3). Much later, in Revelation 16:15, Jesus says "Behold, I come as a thief... Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

At this point, all 7 seal judgment have occurred. All 7 trumpet judgment have gone by. And at least 6 of the 7 vial judgments have been poured out. Indeed, the very next verse says "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." (Rev 16:16). It is at the battle of Armageddon that Christ returns to the earth -- after the tribulation has fully run its course (Rev 19:19). Yet immediately preceding this battle, AFTER the seal, trumpet, and vial Judgments, Christ says in the FUTURE tense, "Behold, I come as a thief." (Rev 3:3).

Furthermore, there is no doubt this is the same coming of the thief that is referred to in Revelation 3 -- the words spoken to the church of Sardis, for both references include specific details such as not defiling one's garments, watching, and the actual reference to Christ's return as being like that of a thief. In short, this is precise and irrefutable Scriptural proof that the thief in the night comes AFTER the tribulation.
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Amen!!!!!Very well said............
 
JLB said:
If you have received the Holy Spirit then you can speak in others tongues.


JLB
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Tongues is just a language,difference being when one speaks the tongues as written in scripture and not this babble in Churches today,all will be able to understand whats being said regardless of what language they speak.....
 
Question: when in the events of the book of Revelation is the following scripture to occur? Before the tribulation, or at its end?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
 
Eugene said:
Question: when in the events of the book of Revelation is the following scripture to occur? Before the tribulation, or at its end?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
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That literally happened to John, so that he could literally see the things that God showed him and write about them.

That has nothing to do with the tribulation.


JLB
 
Eugene said:
Question: when in the events of the book of Revelation is the following scripture to occur? Before the tribulation, or at its end?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
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John wasn't on Patmos for vacation, as he was already suffering tribulation.

Rev 1:9 ¶ I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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Notice John is also already in the kingdom of Christ.:eek2
 
Sinthesis said:
John wasn't on Patmos for vacation, as he was already suffering tribulation.

Rev 1:9 ¶ I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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Notice John is also already in the kingdom of Christ.:eek2
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Exactly. And he was not referring to "HAVING BEEN" in tribulation back when he was on Patmos. (Revelation was written AFTER he was freed from Patmos) He was in tribulation, just like all the other Jews, at that very time.
 
BTW, did anyone ever notice that the great persecutions (tribulations) were NOT just Jews being down on Christians? All that "temple destroying" and "priest killing" was directed precisely, and specifically at the Jewish religion, whether the Jews being killed happened to be believers in Christ, or not.
 
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