Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
The Eternal Kingdom/Reign of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter SolaScriptura
- Start date
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever -the Spirit of truth.
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
Fathers promise-In the last days I will pour out "MY SPIRIT"
The Spirit sent is sent through Jesus and in His name and represents the presence of Christ in the believer but it is the one and only eternal spirit of the sovereign Lord. (Father) Therefore both Father and Son make their home with us.
Father in regard to Jesus
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
Jesus reads from the scroll - The Father sent Jesus
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Jesus speaks of that Spirit as another the Father does not.
The Fathers own Spirit would be Divine but acts according to the will of the mind of the Spirit. Speaks only what He hears. The Father's will because its His Spirit. The Sons will because it was given to Him with full authority. They are one but Jesus has His own spirit.
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
Fathers promise-In the last days I will pour out "MY SPIRIT"
The Spirit sent is sent through Jesus and in His name and represents the presence of Christ in the believer but it is the one and only eternal spirit of the sovereign Lord. (Father) Therefore both Father and Son make their home with us.
Father in regard to Jesus
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
Jesus reads from the scroll - The Father sent Jesus
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Jesus speaks of that Spirit as another the Father does not.
The Fathers own Spirit would be Divine but acts according to the will of the mind of the Spirit. Speaks only what He hears. The Father's will because its His Spirit. The Sons will because it was given to Him with full authority. They are one but Jesus has His own spirit.
The Promise of the Father is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is given by Jesus Christ.
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5
And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:7-8
Jesus Christ pours out the Holy Spirit.
Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33
JLB
The Father calls that "MY SPIRIT" - There you go the testimony of God
Mary conceived by that Spirit since you think the Spirit is a person why doesn't Jesus call the Holy Spirit His Father?
Fathers Promise=>“’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
God does not call that Spirit another not a person but "My Spirit"
Matt 10:20
Jesus=>for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
I don't see the Spirit as a person but as the Spirit of my Heavenly Father who I believe to be the only true God.
Since the Spirit also acts on the mind and will of Christ then the presence of Christ can be in the believer via that Spirit.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
We know Jesus called Saul. So whose words did the Spirit speak?
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
What I believe is what it says. You know what it says. Thus you claim it is an error. You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.
Now,, when you knowingly reject what the Bible says, that is relevant.
Quantrill
You believe Melchizedek has no beginning of days?
You believe the "Father" is the "only" true God?
I have explained many times over my belief and your unbelief. Go back and reread.
Quantrill
Yes or no please
You believe Melchizedek has no beginning of days?
You believe the "Father" is the "only" true God?
Hypocrisy
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
Jesus=>Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
It doesn't matter whether Melchizedek actually had no beginning of days. He is presented as having no beginning of days, because he is presented as the Son is, Who is without beginning of days. (Heb. 7:3)
Such a clear statement of the eternality of God that all you can do is say God was mistaken.
Ask me again and I will tell you the same thing.
All three Persons of the Trinity are God. God the Father. God the Son. God the Holy Spirit.
Ask me again and I will tell you the same thing.
Quantrill
I believe Jesus. Good thing for me He is the head of the body of Christ.
God didn't make David His firstborn He appointed His firstborn to the line of David.
The Christ is the most exalted and remains forever. As the Lord has sworn by His Holiness concerning David
that his line will continue forever
and his throne endure before me like the sun;
Psalm 89:27
And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
It has always been the church of the firstborn
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
The Christ is the most exalted and remains forever. As the Lord has sworn by His Holiness concerning David
that his line will continue forever
and his throne endure before me like the sun;
Psalm 89:27
And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
It has always been the church of the firstborn
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
So? What is your point?
You have already revealed that you only believe the Scripture you want to. Are you trying to make yourself look like a real believer in the Word of God after denying it?
Perhaps you should edit the Bible and produce your own to agree with you.
Quantrill
Jesus-the very first Being that the Deity called into existence. Gods firstborn
The firstborn of all creation
the beginning of the creation of God
A being with no beginning doesn't have a God and there is only one God the Father
Paul did write this
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
And you claim I stated I don't believe in the word of God - show me where I made that statement. For I believe the contention lies with interpretation not unbelief. I stated Melchizedek cannot be a being with no beginning. Its not a possible answer
You also have Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
And from what I read it is biblical to interpret that to mean Jesus is the very first being created by God
OUR GOD
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
There are 3 greatly opposing statements for a case of Jesus being God with no beginning in eternity. All from Jesus Himself. We all believe Jesus was before the world began. We all believe by Him the creation was made. Me-through Him and for Him. We believe He is before all things not meaning the Father. That He is all that the Father is. Me- the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. The Fathers Deity was gifted not formed. He is the exact imprint of Gods being but a Son with His own spirit.
(1) The Father is the only true God - that should be enough
(2) The Father is His God
(3) He lives by the Father
(1) The Father is the only true God - that should be enough
(2) The Father is His God
(3) He lives by the Father
The Man we know as Jesus Christ had a beginning....the Incarnation when Mary gave birth to Jesus. It was when the eternal Son took on a body and became a Man.
The term 'firstborn' can speak to the literal first born of a family, or it speaks to the title as to who is designated the 'firstborn'. Meaning whoever has the title of the firstborn, has all the rights of the first born. (Gen. 25:27-24) (Deut. 21:15-17)
So, Jesus had a beginning at the incarnation. But He is the 'firstborn of all Creation' because He has all the rights of the firstborn.
See your post #(160) for your statement proving you don't believe the Bible as the Word of God.
Concerning (Rev. 3:14) Jesus is the beginning of the Creation of God. He is the beginning because of Who He is as God the Son. As (Col. 1:15) says, "the first born of every creature". As (Col. 1:17) says, "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist". As (Col. 1:18) says, "who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead".
Jesus Christ is the beginning of the Creation because all of the Creation is built upon Him. He has all the rights of the firstborn. He is firstborn of the dead meaning He also has all rights of the firstborn for those that follow being born-again.
And show me what you read that says Jesus is the first being created by God. Give me the reference. Three guess on whether that will happen.
What is your point under your title 'Our God'?
Quantrill
The creation was by the Father through Jesus. All things are from the Father
All things were created through Him and for Him
Jesus is first in everything the first being
There are, though, passages from the Greek translation of the Hebrew, the LXX, that might be mentioned. They are:
Gen.10:10; "beginning of the kingdom of him"-"arche tes basileias autou."
Gen.49:3 ; "first of the children of me"-"arche teknon mou."
Deut.21:17;"first of the children of him"-"arche teknon autou."
Hos.1:2 "beginning of the word of Lord"-"arche logou kuriou."
and from the New Testament:
Mat. 24:8."beginning of pangs of birth-"arche odinon."
Mark1:1 "beginning of the good news"-"arche tou euggeliou."
Phil.4:15 "at the start of declaring of the good news"- "arche tou enaggeliou."
These all contain the word "ARCHE" as does Rev.3:14 followed by a noun in the genitive case. What should be done is not look at the word "ARCHE" only but we must look at similar constructions which we have above. All the examples above show that the one, ones or events are the results of the action of another one. It is a passive meaning we have here, not in the sense of causing the action/results. They have the meaning of "the start of," or "the first of." Hence we would be on scriptural grounds entirely to say that the meaning of "arche", "beginning," at Rev.3:14 was also with that meaning. He, Jesus Christ, was the "first of" God's creation
Our God well my God then if it troubles you
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Last edited:
Our discussion concerns the 'eternality' of the Son. Jesus the Man had a beginning. God the Son did not.
That the term 'firstborn' is a title is what is being addressed in (Deut. 21:16-17). The one who was not 'firstborn' was declared the 'firstborn'. Title. It doesn't matter if it is used in other places to denote the actual first born. Greek or Hebrew doesn't help here. How it is used must be observed.
My question was, what is your point of the phrase, 'my God and your God'. What is that supposed to prove to me?
Quantrill
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
Houston we have a problem
This is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
If you can't accept His words I am wasting my time. I can accept His words.
You are biased by the trinity and try to fit everything in to it. I am biased by Jesus's words and am able to take a closer look at all that is written about Him.
I disagree with your take on "the firstborn of all creation" - He, (His spirit), is the beginning of the creation of God and Gods firstborn. The fullness was pleased to in Him. The Father is His God. And it is the Fathers deity that dwells in Him. They are one in that manner and Jesus is the exact imprint of Gods being in that manner. And in Jesus, through Jesus and for Jesus God, (The Father), made all things.
I think a being who was before Adam could be stated as a High Priest with no beginning of days not a priesthood starting with a ancestor or Father and Mother or genealogy but by Gods appointment. Likewise Melchizedek was before Levi and was appointed by God. There are passages of scripture that go into detail about the Son who was and even the Father and none of them state God always was. This passage was about the priest and priesthood not about the Son who was.
Moses was shown alive in the NT and still in Gods service more than a 1000 years after his body died so Melchizedek by Gods grace could be appointed a priest forever.