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conchoreb
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Will the fetus, aborted or otherwise, know his/her parents when they arrive in heaven (assuming they have subsequently asked forgiveness and accepted Christ as their Savior)? Will they know him/her?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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GojuBrian
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JoJo said:
Mine as well.
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conchoreb
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JoJo said:
Mine too, but I was hoping someone had sources. Someone once said during a talk at my church that his aborted grandchild would know him and would come to him but he would not know, or at least not go to, his grandchild. Wondered where he got that information/belief.
lovely
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- Apr 20, 2005
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I agree that they will know each other. I don't think this verse actually says that they will know one another, but it does seem to indicate it by what David says. For David to say "I will go to him, but he shall not return to me". He had hopes of seeing his son again, of going to him. He is no less a son of David, even though he died so young, and will be known in Heaven as such I believe. There is only an age difference when we consider that God knows us in the womb...like David. Or that it's possible for John the Baptist to have been filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb...and joy! A child who had been murdered in an abortion, or a child who had died due to miscarriage...their parents will go to them. I hope this helps. The Lord bless you.
2 Samuel 12
21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
2 Samuel 12
21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
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Paidion
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People don't have souls; people are souls!
So then Yahweh God formed man, of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life––and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 Rotherham
The word "soul" simply means "being" in this context, as in the NASB translation:
Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Do you think, as in ancient Greek philosophical thought, that you have some sort of "soul" separate from his body which goes somewhere at death? That your "soul" is your consciousness, the "real you"?
If so, then how can the body and the "soul" interact as they do? For example, why would something purely physical, such as giving a person a severe blow on the physical head render the "soul" unconscious? Or conversely, why would too much worry taking place in a person's "soul", result in something physical, namely stomach ulcers? And why, as a person ages, do things happen to their "soul" such as memory loss, or Alzheimer's?
I think mind and body are just two different aspect of the complete human being. The aborted foetus has had life in the womb, but has not yet experienced consciousness in the sense that we experience it. It may be in raising the foetus to life again, God will permit it to grow at the normal rate until it becomes an infant. Perhaps it will continue to grow as an infant does, and go through childhood. At that stage it can interact with his or her resurrected relatives.
I am not sure why so many of you think that the "soul of the foetus" will recognize its relatives. Perhaps it is wishful thinking. Even in this life, if a baby is taken from a mother at birth and raised by someone else, he will not recognize his biological mother if he meets her years later. Even when the child is told that the woman is his "real" mother, he may be quite uninterested.
So then Yahweh God formed man, of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life––and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 Rotherham
The word "soul" simply means "being" in this context, as in the NASB translation:
Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Do you think, as in ancient Greek philosophical thought, that you have some sort of "soul" separate from his body which goes somewhere at death? That your "soul" is your consciousness, the "real you"?
If so, then how can the body and the "soul" interact as they do? For example, why would something purely physical, such as giving a person a severe blow on the physical head render the "soul" unconscious? Or conversely, why would too much worry taking place in a person's "soul", result in something physical, namely stomach ulcers? And why, as a person ages, do things happen to their "soul" such as memory loss, or Alzheimer's?
I think mind and body are just two different aspect of the complete human being. The aborted foetus has had life in the womb, but has not yet experienced consciousness in the sense that we experience it. It may be in raising the foetus to life again, God will permit it to grow at the normal rate until it becomes an infant. Perhaps it will continue to grow as an infant does, and go through childhood. At that stage it can interact with his or her resurrected relatives.
I am not sure why so many of you think that the "soul of the foetus" will recognize its relatives. Perhaps it is wishful thinking. Even in this life, if a baby is taken from a mother at birth and raised by someone else, he will not recognize his biological mother if he meets her years later. Even when the child is told that the woman is his "real" mother, he may be quite uninterested.
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conchoreb
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Paidion said, "The aborted foetus has had life in the womb, but has not yet experienced consciousness in the sense that we experience it."
That's true, but some, the mentally retarded for example, live long lives and never expierience "consciousness in the sense we do". In fact does anyone experience conscousness exactly like anyone else?
Comparing an infant "in this life" with the soul of a fetus seems beside the point.
That's true, but some, the mentally retarded for example, live long lives and never expierience "consciousness in the sense we do". In fact does anyone experience conscousness exactly like anyone else?
Comparing an infant "in this life" with the soul of a fetus seems beside the point.
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Paidion
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Or to go even further, do zygotes go to heaven if they die without becoming blastocysts?
Or how about the millions of sperm who don't make it? That's human life isn't it? Do the sperm have souls? Or does a sperm have to unite with an egg to form a zygote before it gets a soul. And how does it get a soul anyway? Does God have a bundle of souls up in heaven, which he attaches to every zygote?
If that is what happens, then why are children born with sinful natures? Surely God wouldn't create sinful souls! Or are souls inherited along with their bodies from Adam and Eve?
Or how about the millions of sperm who don't make it? That's human life isn't it? Do the sperm have souls? Or does a sperm have to unite with an egg to form a zygote before it gets a soul. And how does it get a soul anyway? Does God have a bundle of souls up in heaven, which he attaches to every zygote?
If that is what happens, then why are children born with sinful natures? Surely God wouldn't create sinful souls! Or are souls inherited along with their bodies from Adam and Eve?
lovely
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How could Levi pay tithes to Melchizadek?
Why did God tell Jeremiah that He knew him before he was in the womb, and consecrated him before he was born?
Why did Rachel have two nations in her womb?
Why did Jacob grab Esau's heel in the womb?
How is it exactly that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb? How is it that David was known in the womb?
How is it that my oldest son knew the sound of his father's voice the moment he was born?
How is it many babies are in pictures sucking their thumb to comfort themselves in their mother's womb?
How is it that you can sing,or rock an active baby to sleep in the womb?
How can they taste, hear, feel if they are non-human?
Why do these non-humans need a system to feed them, CARRY THEM OXYGEN, and dispose of waste?
Why do mothers who abort their unborn feel guilt even when planned parenthood says they don't have to?
Why do mothers who miscarry children naturally go into a season of mourning?
A child that is brutally tortured and then murdered in the womb, or stabbed to death just before leaving the womb, or unmercifully suffocated just after being torn from the womb, is a human being. Sometimes I can't believe this is even up for a discussion.
Why did God tell Jeremiah that He knew him before he was in the womb, and consecrated him before he was born?
Why did Rachel have two nations in her womb?
Why did Jacob grab Esau's heel in the womb?
How is it exactly that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb? How is it that David was known in the womb?
How is it that my oldest son knew the sound of his father's voice the moment he was born?
How is it many babies are in pictures sucking their thumb to comfort themselves in their mother's womb?
How is it that you can sing,or rock an active baby to sleep in the womb?
How can they taste, hear, feel if they are non-human?
Why do these non-humans need a system to feed them, CARRY THEM OXYGEN, and dispose of waste?
Why do mothers who abort their unborn feel guilt even when planned parenthood says they don't have to?
Why do mothers who miscarry children naturally go into a season of mourning?
A child that is brutally tortured and then murdered in the womb, or stabbed to death just before leaving the womb, or unmercifully suffocated just after being torn from the womb, is a human being. Sometimes I can't believe this is even up for a discussion.
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Paidion
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It seems to me, Lovely, that you have been attacking a straw man. :yes
I know of no individual who has contributed to this thread who denies that the zygote is human.
I believe we all agree with you concerning the humanity of people right from conception. :amen
I know of no individual who has contributed to this thread who denies that the zygote is human.
I believe we all agree with you concerning the humanity of people right from conception. :amen
To be honest I believe a lot of the beliefs here are born (no pun intended) of human emotion.
Don't we just want to 'think' that we will be re-united in heaven because we 'think' that God is loving and merciful and kind and would not punish those who are not even born?
Jesus said that no-one can enter the kindom of heaven UNLESS he is born AGAIN. How can you be born again (of the Spirit) if you are not already born (of the flesh)?
Don't we just want to 'think' that we will be re-united in heaven because we 'think' that God is loving and merciful and kind and would not punish those who are not even born?
Jesus said that no-one can enter the kindom of heaven UNLESS he is born AGAIN. How can you be born again (of the Spirit) if you are not already born (of the flesh)?