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THE FORMULA FOR SALVATION

eddif said:
Numbers 33 takes you through the (Stages) of Israel in the wilderness.
That old rightly dividing scripture into piles:
Repentance has a pile
Jesus has a pile
Holy Spirit has a pile
The sameness of the Godhead has a pile
The difference of the Godhead has a pile
Click to expand...

What is a pile?
 
JLB said:
Baptized into Moses foreshadows being baptized into Christ.
Baptized in the sea foreshadows water baptism.
Baptized in the cloud foreshadows baptism with the Holy Spirit.




JLB
Click to expand...
Please be slow to speak and quick to hear.

I asked you a specific question regarding Exodus 14. It would be nice if you addressed my question with a passage from Exodus 14.

I’m not that interested in all the other things you’ve written because they haven’t addressed my question.

You said,
JLB said:
The Sea = Baptized in water by man.
Click to expand...
This event takes place in Exodus 14. Can you show me a supporting passage in Exodus 14 that supports your assertion?

If you can’t find supporting verses in Exodus 14,, and I don’t think you will then you may want to rethink that portion of your doctrine on Baptism.
 
eddif said:
stovebolts JLB
There are a huge number of piles in Y’all’s conversation, and I am not capable of doing all of it myself.

Types and shadows are tough to follow.

Numbers 33 takes you through the (Stages) of Israel in the wilderness.
That old rightly dividing scripture into piles:
Repentance has a pile
Jesus has a pile
Holy Spirit has a pile
The sameness of the Godhead has a pile
The difference of the Godhead has a pile


Then man has a pile:
Made in the image of God
Trying to be above God
The failures of man
Calling on the name of God
Having a heart after God
Receiving the quickening spirit (Christ in us ?)

A comment
Joseph is probably more a type of Jesus than Moses.
Had a coat of many colors ( Jesus had a seamless garment).
Joseph delivered the world from starvation (Jesus delivers all from sin)
Joseph was in prison with two men one restored, and one killed ( Jesus was in death with two men one into paradise the other into eternal death.
Joseph respected his father (Jesus respected his father.
Joseph placed in authority in Egypt (Jesus given all authority by God)
And many more examples

Because of the complexity of types and shadows it is not an easy task to try and get it totally (Right).

The one new man in Christ still has to understand the one saved by faith and the otherthrough faith.

Both have slide projectors presenting their viewpoints. The problem is they are both wearing welding glasses and can barely see the others screen.

Do we need another thread? To me it fits under formulas.
But
The formula is one that takes up a 4foot high by 16foot long board with Einstein writing the formula. I never took Calculus so I do not qualify to write the dissertation with proofs.

On my redneck level I try. It just ain’t good enough.

eddif
Click to expand...
Ha, great post and some very good points.

As far as Joseph, while he is my favorite OT character, he is far from a type of Christ.

Moses mirrors Jesus in that he was willing to die for Israel. This event took place after the incident of the Golden Calf where God wanted to smite them for breaking covenant even before the consummation.

God said the Angel of the Lord would not go before them. This is to say Israel will be slaughtered. What does Moses say in reply?

No other prophet of old except Moses was willing to lay their life down for the people. This is why Moses is a type of Christ and why Moses said one greater than he would come. Moses knew this when he asked God, “show me your glory”, which is to say, “who will save them”.

Give Exodus a new read with that perspective.

Cheers.

PS I am traveling to TN today so I won’t be online much.
 
stovebolts said:
Please be slow to speak and quick to hear.

I asked you a specific question regarding Exodus 14. It would be nice if you addressed my question with a passage from Exodus 14.

I’m not that interested in all the other things you’ve written because they haven’t addressed my question.

You said,

This event takes place in Exodus 14. Can you show me a supporting passage in Exodus 14 that supports your assertion?

If you can’t find supporting verses in Exodus 14,, and I don’t think you will then you may want to rethink that portion of your doctrine on Baptism.
Click to expand...

Jeff, the doctrine comes from the New Testament, specifically
1 Corinthians 10:1-4

It spans much more that Exodus 14. Why are you just focused on Exodus 14?

It begins with the Passover. Which is found in Exodus 12.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4



What is your specific question? Please refer me to the post where you asked your specific question. I will go back and see where I failed to answer your specific question.



JLB
 
JLB said:
What is a pile?
Click to expand...
Rightly dividing the Word of God.

Not rightly divining the word of God.

Call them folders if you want.

Then when a discussion arises about a concept, you can pull the same concept from different context areas and try and see the light.

The idea being:
The seed is the Word of God

The ground is men’s hearts

Creation context
VS / Agreement With
Revealed meaning of a previously hidden truth.

You divide the Word then reform the statements knowing their parallel meanings.

You eat meat. Break the meat down into amino acids.
Then reform those amino acids into who you are as a man made in the image of God, but reborn in Christ Jesus (New Creation).

We do not live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

Food and drink are not ultimate highest order realities, but are a stepping stone on the way to understandig truth. Shadows alert a person to look for what is causing the shadow. Jesus is the body casting the shadow.

Jewish persons have the oracles of God. The advantage is for the Jew, and I suppose us if we are grafted in.

You have permission to refine statements.

eddif
 
eddif said:
Rightly dividing the Word of God.

Not rightly divining the word of God.

Call them folders if you want.
Click to expand...

So a “pile” is rightly dividing the word or not rightly dividing the word?
 
stovebolts said:
Ha, great post and some very good points.

As far as Joseph, while he is my favorite OT character, he is far from a type of Christ.

Moses mirrors Jesus in that he was willing to die for Israel. This event took place after the incident of the Golden Calf where God wanted to smite them for breaking covenant even before the consummation.

God said the Angel of the Lord would not go before them. This is to say Israel will be slaughtered. What does Moses say in reply?

No other prophet of old except Moses was willing to lay their life down for the people. This is why Moses is a type of Christ and why Moses said one greater than he would come. Moses knew this when he asked God, “show me your glory”, which is to say, “who will save them”.

Give Exodus a new read with that perspective.

Cheers.

PS I am traveling to TN today so I won’t be online much.
Click to expand...
Numbers 16:47 kjv
47. And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.

Arron finally got some backbone.

Just who he was a shadow of, maybe you can tell us after your trip.

eddif
 
JLB said:
So a “pile” is rightly dividing the word or not rightly dividing the word?
Click to expand...
In my opinion.

I hear many times when people take a scripture and divine a meaning. Where the authority comes from is debatable.

The statement about the two women are two covenants came by revelation to the New Testament writer. I just read about the two women for years. I got the Jew and gentile, but missed the covenants, the branch broken off (by divorce), the grafting in (with the warning).

Without the folders it all runs together.

You shall not cook two beans in the same pot / vessel. You cook one bean in one pot / folder.
I have not refined that concept yet.

eddif
 
eddif said:
In my opinion.

I hear many times when people take a scripture and divine a meaning. Where the authority comes from is debatable.

The statement about the two women are two covenants came by revelation to the New Testament writer. I just read about the two women for years. I got the Jew and gentile, but missed the covenants, the branch broken off (by divorce), the grafting in (with the warning).

Without the folders it all runs together.

You shall not cook two beans in the same pot / vessel. You cook one bean in one pot / folder.
I have not refined that concept yet.

eddif
Click to expand...

Paul using the Old Testament types to teach a New Testament truth is there for us to learn from. The inspiration of this comes from the Holy Spirit.


The Passover lamb is a type of Christ and his sacrifice on the cross on Passover.

Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples. And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”
John 1:35-36


Believing the Gospel is how we are saved; born again, and thus baptized into Christ, in which we are made to drink of the Spirit.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

  • This is the work of the Spirit, whereby the Spirit is the One Baptizing.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses… 1 Corinthians 10:1-2


Moses being a type of Christ.





JLB
 
stovebolts said:
I understand that and I would even go as far as to say Moses was a type of Christ, in many ways.

What I am having a hard time understanding is how you link that event to a baptism “by” men.

Exodus 14 makes it fairly clear that it was the Lord that had everything to do with the sea.

What passage in Exodus 14 do you see that makes the connection that the baptism was from man?
Click to expand...

I believe this is the post you are referring to.


And the LORD said to Moses, “Why do you cry to Me? Tell the children of Israel to go forward. But lift up your rod, and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it. And the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea. Exodus 14:15-16

  • But lift up your rod, and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it.

The Lord commanded Moses to do the work.


Who baptizes people in water?

God or man?


for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1:5



JLB
 
This is interesting.
Moses led the people of Israel (under the law) into the promised land.

Joseph helped everyone stay alive physically.

Jesus ministered to mainly Jews but did minister to some gentiles:
Physically
Spiritually
Promised / gave much prophecy

One new man made of Jew and gentile.

eddif
 
eddif said:
stovebolts JLB
There are a huge number of piles in Y’all’s conversation, and I am not capable of doing all of it myself.

Types and shadows are tough to follow.

Numbers 33 takes you through the (Stages) of Israel in the wilderness.
That old rightly dividing scripture into piles:
Repentance has a pile
Jesus has a pile
Holy Spirit has a pile
The sameness of the Godhead has a pile
The difference of the Godhead has a pile


Then man has a pile:
Made in the image of God
Trying to be above God
The failures of man
Calling on the name of God
Having a heart after God
Receiving the quickening spirit (Christ in us ?)

A comment
Joseph is probably more a type of Jesus than Moses.
Had a coat of many colors ( Jesus had a seamless garment).
Joseph delivered the world from starvation (Jesus delivers all from sin)
Joseph was in prison with two men one restored, and one killed ( Jesus was in death with two men one into paradise the other into eternal death.
Joseph respected his father (Jesus respected his father.
Joseph placed in authority in Egypt (Jesus given all authority by God)
And many more examples

Because of the complexity of types and shadows it is not an easy task to try and get it totally (Right).

The one new man in Christ still has to understand the one saved by faith and the otherthrough faith.

Both have slide projectors presenting their viewpoints. The problem is they are both wearing welding glasses and can barely see the others screen.

Do we need another thread? To me it fits under formulas.
But
The formula is one that takes up a 4foot high by 16foot long board with Einstein writing the formula. I never took Calculus so I do not qualify to write the dissertation with proofs.

On my redneck level I try. It just ain’t good enough.

eddif
Click to expand...
It's good enough.
 
JLB said:
It spans much more that Exodus 14. Why are you just focused on Exodus 14?
Click to expand...
Because the verse you quoted refers directly back to the event recorded in Exodus. The Torah is the very foundation of the Bible so when you say that the sea in Exodus 14 refers to a baptism by man, then Exodus 14 must bear that out otherwise your theology on the matter fails to line up with the very foundation of your theology.
 
eddif said:
Numbers 16:47 kjv
47. And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.

Arron finally got some backbone.

Just who he was a shadow of, maybe you can tell us after your trip.

eddif
Click to expand...
Good question…. I don’t really know. He was the first high priest and was spared his life after making the golden calf because of the intercession from his brother.

Do you have a thought? I’d be interested in hearing it.
 
stovebolts said:
Because the verse you quoted refers directly back to the event recorded in Exodus. The Torah is the very foundation of the Bible so when you say that the sea in Exodus 14 refers to a baptism by man, then Exodus 14 must bear that out otherwise your theology on the matter fails to line up with the very foundation of your theology.
Click to expand...

See my post #350
 
stovebolts said:
when you say that the sea in Exodus 14
Click to expand...

I never referred to Exodus 14.

I Quoted 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

If you believe Paul was referring to another baptism, other than water baptism when he said baptized in the sea, then please share which baptism you believe he was referring to.

I believe that being baptized --

into Moses, foreshadows us being baptized into Christ, when we believe the Gospel, that occurred on the Passover, by the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.

In the sea, foreshadows water baptism.

in the cloud, foreshadows the baptism with the Holy Spirit.



JLB
 
Types, shadows, foreshadowing, parables, stories are not what you grab your camera to take your picture of. Nor do we write endless books describing endless conversations about the physical.

A shadow will never be clear. We have to realize the shadow is about the real reality to come.
Once we see Jesus as the fulfillment of the law we have arrived at the truth. The truth is established.

You. Look for the reality that all these things point to.

When Jesus taught the beatitudes the inner realities were revealed. We seem to think a microscope looking at DNA is an ultimate truth. I amguilty too. Faith sees God.

Seems strange, but God judges the intents of the heart.

The moon turned to blood.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
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