THE FORMULA FOR SALVATION

[Dorothy Mae]

.

Nope, you started a subject; and you should expect people to respond to your posts.

It is unrighteous of you to speak of something that is off-topic in the hopes that no one will be able to respond; so that you can have a monopoly on the conversation.

If a person does wrong and others join in, do they have no responsibility for contributing to the wrong? Is that how God sees it? Adam tried that with Eve and God didn’t accept that excuse.

The correct response is the one I, notice just me and no one else, eventually gave which is “back to the OP.” That is what one is supposed to do when another does wrong. One doesn’t join in and blame the first party but provides correction.

I rarely toot my own horn but I was the only one to steer the discussion back to the OP. And again I say

BACK TO THE OP

(it’s really rude to laugh at people)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I said I don't know about preterism.
I said Jesus has not returned.
I agree with heartwashed in post 312.

I also don't believe in the rapture.

Am I a preterist??
I don't think so

Back to the OP

 

[heartwashed]

Your fault, Dorothy Mae,

For you brought up a subject that was forbidden.

You cannot blame other people for responding to your posts.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Your fault, Dorothy Mae,

For you brought up a subject that was forbidden.

You cannot blame other people for responding to your posts.

No, everyone is responsible before God for what they write/say. This is important beyond the thread.

Back to OP

 

[stovebolts]

Does God show us a formula for how to be saved?

If I were to choose my words carefully, I would say God shows us a way that leads to salvation.

this formula found in the Old Testament?

The “Way” should be apparent in the old covenant(s).

New Testament

Jesus professed, “I am the Way”.

What do you believe that formula to be?

To “Walk as Jesus Walked”.

Would an almighty God even have a formula?

No. Only a “Way”. Formulas don’t call for discernment. Instead, they require one follow specific instructions and upon completing all prescribed instructions, a result is presented. Israel was given instructions, yet lost their way because they did not know Gods way. They reduced Gods words to “instructions”. Many of todays churches do the same.

Iit very narrow and allows only a few into salvatiìon,

or is it wider than we would think and allows for more to be saved?

Jesus says the “Way” is narrow, and few find it. A formula would say that one “Must complete these requirements to procure salvation”. In other words, it is very easy for salvation to be viewed as a transaction. I do not believe this is what Jesus was trying to convey. From this perspective, I believe there will be many who are saved that a legalistic formula would have excluded.

 

[heartwashed]

No, everyone is responsible before God for what they write/say. This is important beyond the thread.

Back to OP

It seems to me that you wanted to make a statement and have no one respond to it.

Now, I am going to report your post.

Because according to you, that is what I should have done in the first place instead of responding to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

If I were to choose my words carefully, I would say God shows us a way that leads to salvation.

The “Way” should be apparent in the old covenant(s).

Jesus professed, “I am the Way”.


To “Walk as Jesus Walked”.

No. Only a “Way”. Formulas don’t call for discernment. Instead, they require one follow specific instructions and upon completing all prescribed instructions, a result is presented. Israel was given instructions, yet lost their way because they did not know Gods way. They reduced Gods words to “instructions”. Many of todays churches do the same.


Jesus says the “Way” is narrow, and few find it. A formula would say that one “Must complete these requirements to procure salvation”. In other words, it is very easy for salvation to be viewed as a transaction. I do not believe this is what Jesus was trying to convey. From this perspective, I believe there will be many who are saved that a legalistic formula would have excluded.

Great post and reply.
Amen to all !

 

[stovebolts]

Great post and reply.
Amen to all !

Have you considered Ephesians 5? Take note of the “therefore” with chapter 4 as a partial reference.

NIV
1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved usand gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

 

[JLB]

Being baptized in the sea and in the cloud is in fact being baptized in Jesus. I get it. But. It is a type and shadow of things to come. It is not about immersion in one sense, and at the same time it is about immersion. The water was stacked up crossing the Red Sea.

Three different baptisms from the Old Testament that typify or foreshadowed the New Testament baptisms.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4

• all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

Moses = Baptized into Christ by the Spirit.

The Sea = Baptized in water by man.

The Cloud = Baptized with the Spirit by Jesus Christ


Three different baptisms by three different baptizers.





JLB

 

[stovebolts]

The Sea = Baptized in water by man.

How so?

Moses stretched out his hand toward the sea, and the Lord drove the sea apart by a strong east wind all that night, and he made the sea into dry land, and the water was divided.

 

[JLB]

How so?

Moses stretched out his hand toward the sea, and the Lord drove the sea apart by a strong east wind all that night, and he made the sea into dry land, and the water was divided.

Yes, and Moses and the children of Israel went down into the sea, (death) and came up out of the sea, (resurrection), thus foreshadowing New Testament baptism in water.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

This topic, being a good topic, and having read all the replies is becoming a battlefield between a few members that are at each other claiming the right and wrong arguments and this needs to stop. Discussions are of our views and understandings of scripture which makes no one right or wrong, but how they understand. If we disagree with each other then state that of what you believe and why you believe as you do without degrading one another so it can be discussed in a Godly manner, which does not cause division among the members.

Some come with full truth, half truths and maybe no truth at all by how they allow themselves to be taught. Everyone claims to be taught by the Holy Spirit, but we see this is not always true by the various doctrines/theologies that are presented in these boards. If you disagree with someone just say so and try to prove your points by using the full context of scripture and not by trying to force others in believing how you do, which only causes division and arguments that end up with one not being very pleasing to the Lord.

I'm not calling out anyone in particular as each one will be held accountable before the Lord for every word they speak. Let us guard the words we speak and let them be edifying and lifting up one another as we walk in the unity of love.

2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[stovebolts]

Yes, and Moses and the children of Israel went down into the sea, (death) and came up out of the sea, (resurrection), thus foreshadowing New Testament baptism in water.



JLB

I understand that and I would even go as far as to say Moses was a type of Christ, in many ways.

What I am having a hard time understanding is how you link that event to a baptism “by” men.

Exodus 14 makes it fairly clear that it was the Lord that had everything to do with the sea.

What passage in Exodus 14 do you see that makes the connection that the baptism was from man?

 

[JLB]

I understand that and I would even go as far as to say Moses was a type of Christ, in many ways.

Yes, Moses was indeed a type of Christ.

What I am having a hard time understanding is how you link that event to a baptism “by” men.

It comes from the Lord Himself, in the scriptures —


for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1:5


New Testament water baptism is by man, John the Baptist as the forerunner, then the Apostles, then the evangelist Phillip and today the Evangelist or Pastor.


Jesus baptizes with the Spirit, man baptizes in water.


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8


The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ; born again, new birth being the work of the Spirit.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13



JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Yes, Moses was indeed a type of Christ.




It comes from the Lord Himself, in the scriptures —


for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1:5


New Testament water baptism is by man, John the Baptist as the forerunner, then the Apostles, then the evangelist Phillip and today the Evangelist or Pastor.


Jesus baptizes with the Spirit, man baptizes in water.


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8


The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ; born again, new birth being the work of the Spirit.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13



JLB

John isn’t referred to as Moses. As such, he wouldnt be viewed as a type of Christ like Moses is.

When Peter writes about Moses, he is referring to Expdus 14. Nowhere does he mention John. As such, to say that crossing the sea was by man (Moses) doesn’t make any since to me because Exodus 14 gives that credit to God.

 

[JLB]

John isn’t referred to as Moses.

I never said such a thing.

Moses is a type of Christ.

"They", the children of Israel were "baptized" into Moses.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses...
1 Corinthians 10:1-2

This is foreshadowing our initial salvation when we are born again, and baptized by the Spirit into Christ.

This occurred when they kept the passover, a type of crucifixion when the "Lamb of God was slain for our sins".

"Baptized in the sea" came afterward, and foreshadows water baptism.


Sorry for not being more clear.


JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I never said such a thing.

Moses is a type of Christ.

"They", the children of Israel were "baptized" into Moses.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses...
1 Corinthians 10:1-2

This is foreshadowing our initial salvation when we are born again, and baptized by the Spirit into Christ.

This occurred when they kept the passover, a type of crucifixion when the "Lamb of God was slain for our sins".

"Baptized in the sea" came afterward, and foreshadows water baptism.


Sorry for not being more clear.


JLB

Ha, I feel like I’m the one not being very clear. Let me try again.
You said,

The Sea = Baptized in water by man.

This event took place with Moses and is recorded in Exodus 14.

When I asked you about this event, you brought up John the Baptist and I don’t think John’s baptism and being baptized into Moses are similar enough to relate.

That being said, I am trying to understand how you see baptized into Moses (the sea) as a baptism by man through the lens of Exodus 14.

What I think, and I could be wrong so please don’t take offense, but I don’t think you’ve taken the time to study Exodus 14 well enough. If you have, then please show me how you come up with the statement that the sea, as written about in Exodus 14 refers to baptism by man?

As a side note, it did cause me to ponder…. Jesus was a man, and we are baptized into Christ and will be raised to life just like Jesus. However, it is still through the Lord, and not of man. Keeping in mind that Moses was a type of Christ.

 

[JLB]

When I asked you about this event, you brought up John the Baptist and I don’t think John’s baptism and being baptized into Moses are similar enough to relate.

Baptized into Moses foreshadows being baptized into Christ.
Baptized in the sea foreshadows water baptism.
Baptized in the cloud foreshadows baptism with the Holy Spirit.




JLB

 

[JLB]

When I asked you about this event, you brought up John the Baptist and I don’t think John’s baptism and being baptized into Moses are similar enough to relate.

Being baptized into Moses foreshadows initial baptism; being born again, baptized into Christ by the Spirit.

This is when we believe and therefore obey the Gospel, which correlates to the Passover; eating the Passover lamb.

Jesus said unless you eat my flesh… Indicating He Himself was the Passover Lamb; the Lamb of God slain for the sins of the world.

When we believe the Gospel we are born of the Spirit, and the Spirit baptizes us into Christ; we are made to drink of the Spirit.

Regeneration is the work of the Spirit.

In this baptism the Spirit is the Baptizer.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

This is when we are joined to Christ, and thereby become one spirit with Him; one spirit with the Spirit of life in Christ.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17






JLB

 

[eddif]

John isn’t referred to as Moses. As such, he wouldnt be viewed as a type of Christ like Moses is.

When Peter writes about Moses, he is referring to Expdus 14. Nowhere does he mention John. As such, to say that crossing the sea was by man (Moses) doesn’t make any since to me because Exodus 14 gives that credit to God.

stovebolts JLB
There are a huge number of piles in Y’all’s conversation, and I am not capable of doing all of it myself.

Types and shadows are tough to follow.

Numbers 33 takes you through the (Stages) of Israel in the wilderness.
That old rightly dividing scripture into piles:
Repentance has a pile
Jesus has a pile
Holy Spirit has a pile
The sameness of the Godhead has a pile
The difference of the Godhead has a pile


Then man has a pile:
Made in the image of God
Trying to be above God
The failures of man
Calling on the name of God
Having a heart after God
Receiving the quickening spirit (Christ in us ?)

A comment
Joseph is probably more a type of Jesus than Moses.
Had a coat of many colors ( Jesus had a seamless garment).
Joseph delivered the world from starvation (Jesus delivers all from sin)
Joseph was in prison with two men one restored, and one killed ( Jesus was in death with two men one into paradise the other into eternal death.
Joseph respected his father (Jesus respected his father.
Joseph placed in authority in Egypt (Jesus given all authority by God)
And many more examples

Because of the complexity of types and shadows it is not an easy task to try and get it totally (Right).

The one new man in Christ still has to understand the one saved by faith and the otherthrough faith.

Both have slide projectors presenting their viewpoints. The problem is they are both wearing welding glasses and can barely see the others screen.

Do we need another thread? To me it fits under formulas.
But
The formula is one that takes up a 4foot high by 16foot long board with Einstein writing the formula. I never took Calculus so I do not qualify to write the dissertation with proofs.

On my redneck level I try. It just ain’t good enough.

eddif