The Good News/The Bad News

[jasonc]

i often wonder how the apostolic and Calvinist and church of Christ will react when the see other denoms in heaven

you do realize that these teach that there will be more then just 12 apostles that every generation has apostles .

also they are property gospel types .are you familiar with charsimatic circles ,were you one that has been, under female pastors ,prophets,prophetess?I got saved and attended one for years.these oddly don't teach that the apostle office is still active .

but nar goes beyond that .way beyond ,you can be blessed finacally by tithing ,that type of logic .

 

[Hospes]

i often wonder how the apostolic and Calvinist and church of Christ will react when the see other denoms in heaven

Hey, I'm just happy and surprised you think a Calvinist could end up in heaven!

 

[JLB]

Can I really make a commitment to Jesus forever without the help of the Holy Spirit?
The answer is no, so it is God's decision who gets saved, but it also is our decision to want to be saved.

The good news is, it’s not God’s will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Hey, I'm just happy and surprised you think a Calvinist could end up in heaven!

There won’t be any anyone in heaven except blood bought born again sons of God who obey Jesus Christ.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Hey, I'm just happy and surprised you think a Calvinist could end up in heaven!

CALVINIST is just a name tag it will either burn off going down or fall off going up.. God does not look at the denomination. he looks at the heart ! i have friends of all types even Calvinist/reformed

 

[jerry63935]

you do realize that these teach that there will be more then just 12 apostles that every generation has apostles .

also they are property gospel types .are you familiar with charsimatic circles ,were you one that has been, under female pastors ,prophets,prophetess?I got saved and attended one for years.these oddly don't teach that the apostle office is still active .

but nar goes beyond that .way beyond ,you can be blessed finacally by tithing ,that type of logic .

i have been around charismatics i have oneness Pentecostal friends ..i even have a dear friend who is full blown woman Pentecostal preacher . do i agree with every thing they believe NOPE sure dont.. see we focus on what we do believe Jesus way truth life . but see in all 3 of these groups i have heard there preachers say they are the true church . i know Baptist that would not let another Baptist preach in there pulpit. due to doctrinal differences . i have been in free will Baptist southern Baptist general Baptist non denom, raised U M C . I have PREACHED IN ALL THE ABOVE

 

[jasonc]

i have been around charismatics i have oneness Pentecostal friends ..i even have a dear friend who is full blown woman Pentecostal preacher . do i agree with every thing they believe NOPE sure dont.. see we focus on what we do believe Jesus way truth life . but see in all 3 of these groups i have heard there preachers say they are the true church . i know Baptist that would not let another Baptist preach in there pulpit. due to doctrinal differences . i have been in free will Baptist southern Baptist general Baptist non denom, raised U M C . I have PREACHED IN ALL THE ABOVE

the trinity is either true or not .

Jesus is either the son of God or not .it can't be true that one mess is ok but not Jehovah's witnesses .one ness is modalism ,Jesus on the earth ,yet a voice is heard from heaven saying then he is the son of God . I,get the trinity is hard to understand but well what exactly Jesus when God the father answered him,in modalism?they dance around that .

can't consistenly say oness is,biblical but not the Jesus of the jw

 

[Christ_empowered]

Ephesians 2:10

and also...

Matthew 13 , The parable of the sower.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

There won’t be any anyone in heaven except blood bought born again sons of God who obey Jesus Christ.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


JLB

Well said...Obedience is the key to following Jesus in the first place . It ( obedience) opens up a world of possibilities for the follower. It's like learning to ride a bicycle. It's so difficult in the beginning , bit if one perseveres, bicycling gives a person a great release and happiness. Same thing with Obedience. It is so blessed a feeling to walk in tandem with the Will of God. And it's all made possible when we begin to pick up our cross, deny the flesh and follow the Holy one. Obey the King . No greater joy ...
?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I would also mention the Beatitudes.
Matthew 5:3-10
1When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

7“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

8“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

10“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

We should all notice what TYPE of person Jesus would like to see us emulate.


Agreed.



I don't see the above in Matthew 16:25
Could you explain?


I agree that we must obey God's commandments and what Jesus taught.


I'd say that OSAS falls into this same dangerous category ---
Some persons take advantage of wrong teachings.
Not all persons do....



Love includes forgiving....we should have a thread on what it means to forgive.....


We agree on all.
I believe you've misunderstood the O.P.
It's speaking against the reformed faith, which does not believe God is love...
They believe in a God that would send some to hell for no reason at all.
This would not be a loving God...which, as you've stated, we know that our God IS love.
(and mercy and justice).

Amen, Amen, and Aameen to everything ?

 

[K2CHRIST]

Well said...Obedience is the key to following Jesus in the first place . It ( obedience) opens up a world of possibilities for the follower. It's like learning to ride a bicycle. It's so difficult in the beginning , bit if one perseveres, bicycling gives a person a great release and happiness. Same thing with Obedience. It is so blessed a feeling to walk in tandem with the Will of God. And it's all made possible when we begin to pick up our cross, deny the flesh and follow the Holy one. Obey the King . No greater joy ...
?

HA...

I kind of like the above post.... but it comes across a bit religious. For example - Jesus did and said only what the Father said and picked up His the cross, but do we really think that there was "No greater joy" than going through what Jesus did at the cross?????

Picking up our cross, our instructions, might not be as bad as His cross, but following the instructions the Lord gives you doesn't just give you "No Greater Joy"!! That is just saying something that sounds good and shows that we really don't know what we are talking about - meaning we really don't know Him like we pretend.

OH Yes - There are times of "NO GREATER JOY", but it is not all like that!!

Perhaps riding a bike is a good comparison. Riding a bike can be great fun, but what if you fall? In those moments you have greater harm because you were going faster when you fell. And what about if you stay on the bike and come to a hill? Then the going gets tough and take a lot of hard work - not so much fun then! And bikes sometimes break down and then you feel a bit stranded. Oh - I suppose the bike gets you where you need to go faster than walking, and the downhill grade on a bike can be fun... you might also get in good shape riding a bike, but it's not all as fantastic as it is sometime made out to be. So perhaps comparing a walk with the Lord to riding a bike is a good comparison, but lets be honest. We do know Him, right? Some times I wonder with some of the things I read.

Jer 20:2 Pashhur had Jeremiah the prophet beaten and put him in the stocks that were at the upper Benjamin Gate, which was by the house of the LORD.

Yeah - Jerimiah must have felt he got on the wrong bike!

Jer 20:7 O LORD, You have deceived me and I was deceived; You have overcome me and prevailed.
I have become a laughingstock all day long; Everyone mocks me.

Have you never felt that way after doing what the Lord told you??

I remember the first thing He had me doing when I got to know Him, and that was telling people at work about Him. It was awesome, and I saw Him do some amazing things, but they fired me. Just ten minutes before they fired me I found out that someone I prayed for had their wrist healed by the Lord, and He was indeed giving me great joy while I was being told they were firing me, but to make it sound it is all just fantastic is just wrong.

 

[Hospes]

With all this love for obedience, I am wondering how Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection is sufficient for our salvation when it seems that we, in and of ourselves, must add obedience to the mix to gain salvation. Does anyone want to explain the sufficiency of Christ's work in light of the necessity of our obedience? Maybe a more clear question is:

"How can Christ's work be sufficient for our justification when our salvation also requires our obedience?"

 

[Hospes]

CALVINIST is just a name tag it will either burn off going down or fall off going up.

Do you think the same way about the "nametag" CHRISTIAN?

 

[JLB]

It's so difficult in the beginning , bit if one perseveres, bicycling gives a person a great release and happiness. Same thing with Obedience. It is so blessed a feeling to walk in tandem with the Will of God.

Well said brother. We can start by small things He asks us to do, and before we know it, we are “exercising ourselves unto godliness”. The desire to please Him, inspired by our love for Him, coupled with the power and grace of the Spirit is a powerful combination.


Paul says it this way —


...The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6




JLB

 

[JLB]

With all this love for obedience

The common denominator in love, faith, righteousness and justification is obedience.

The obedience of faith.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



JLB

 

[JLB]

"How can Christ's work be sufficient for our justification when our salvation also requires our obedience?"

Justification by faith requires obedience; the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Romans 16:26


You won’t learn these all important truths, studying the teachings of Calvinism. They are only found in scripture.



JLB

 

[Hospes]

Justification by faith requires obedience; the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Romans 16:26


You won’t learn these all important truths, studying the teachings of Calvinism. They are only found in scripture.



JLB

After scouring Calvin's Institutes, all the writing of Edwards, Spurgeon's sermons, and DesiringGod.org, I decided to find my Bible and see what it says. :wink (The winky face is meant as a clue to those who are blind to tongue-in-cheek humor.)

Are these passages in Romans forgetting the necessity of our obedience in stating what brought about our justification? (I am assuming those that are justified are saved. Let me know if there is disagreement.)

“[They] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood.” Romans 3:24-25 (ESV)​

​

“[He] was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.” Romans 4:25 (ESV)​

​

“Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.” Romans 5:9 (ESV)​

​

JLB, I also noticed the word "for" in the verse you quote.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith... Romans 16:26​

Any idea what that "for" is there for? Or what implication it adds to the sentence?

 

[JLB]

After scouring Calvin's Institutes, all the writing of Edwards, Spurgeon's sermons, and DesiringGod.org, I decided to find my Bible and see what it says. :wink (The winky face is meant as a clue to those who are blind to tongue-in-cheek humor.)

Are these passages in Romans forgetting the necessity of our obedience in stating what brought about our justification? (I am assuming those that are justified are saved. Let me know if there is disagreement.)

“[They] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood.” Romans 3:24-25 (ESV)​

​

“[He] was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.” Romans 4:25 (ESV)​

​

“Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.” Romans 5:9 (ESV)​

​

JLB, I also noticed the word "for" in the verse you quote.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith... Romans 16:26​

Any idea what that "for" is there for? Or what implication it adds to the sentence?

We can obey what the Spirit leads to to obey because of His grace, empowering us to walk in righteousness.


The commandment of God to all nations, which includes both Jew and Gentile, is for the obedience of faith required for salvation.

This is obedience to the command of the Gospel which is repent.


Repent means to turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord.


This simple act of obedience, empowered by His grace, is what causes us to be transferred from the domain of darkness, with Satan as our lord, into the kingdom of God with Jesus as our Lord.





JLB

 

[Hospes]

We can obey what the Spirit leads to to obey because of His grace, empowering us to walk in righteousness.

The commandment of God to all nations, which includes both Jew and Gentile, is for the obedience of faith required for salvation.

This is obedience to the command of the Gospel which is repent.

Repent means to turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord.

This simple act of obedience, empowered by His grace, is what causes us to be transferred from the domain of darkness, with Satan as our lord, into the kingdom of God with Jesus as our Lord.

JLB, you restated what you believe (Some of which I am in agreement.), but did you address my two questions?

 

[K2CHRIST]

With all this love for obedience, I am wondering how Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection is sufficient for our salvation when it seems that we, in and of ourselves, must add obedience to the mix to gain salvation. Does anyone want to explain the sufficiency of Christ's work in light of the necessity of our obedience? Maybe a more clear question is:

"How can Christ's work be sufficient for our justification when our salvation also requires our obedience?"

It doesn't require obedience - it requires faith!!

The faith that we are talking about is faith in Him - that means we believe He is their, like in the Great I AM.
Because we believe He is their we seek Him, and just like it is written (all those who seek find) we find Him.
Because we find Him we hear from Him who we find.
Then, since He is Lord of lord, we get instructions from Him, plus a lot more, but instructions.
Then we are faced with the fact that the One who we think is God is giving us instructions, we the things that He says!!
Doing those things results in "obedience!

Therefore faith in Him results in "obedience"!

Of course there is that BIG PROBLEM, which is that we are people!
For numerous reasons, we don't always do what He says, even if we do believe Him and thus hear Him!!!!

So now comes in the "religious spirit" - a demon straight from Satan - which works on our religious pride. So we come across sounding pious. We stop being honest with ourselves. Still, pride is pride whether from a religious spirit or not. Even sarcastic remarks about "Does anyone want to explain the sufficiency of Christ's work in light of the necessity of our obedience?" has obvious "pride in it!

Certainly there is someone who wants to explain it, and if we were seeking Him then we got the explanation, right?

He even explained in in the Scriptures, which He wants to go over with you, right?

James 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself

So obviously "obedience comes into play!

Yet one person declares it doesn't, proving they don't know Him, and another person declares they don't sin and always do what He tells them, and also proving they don't know Him.

Yet where are the testimonies?????

Jame 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

I have and will show you my faith by my works, but I will also try to be honest and show you my humanity when I heard from Him, My Lord, and didn't do what He told me.

What I find amazing is that He, being God, can and has gotten me to do things (be obedient) in ways that I could never have gotten myself to do by my great efforts - like when He got me to quite a good job to spend all I had to open and run a Christian bookstore for Him and loose it all for His sake. I was obedient, but only because He is great enough to get me to do it. Then He would clearly ask me to do something so easy and simple that I certainly should be able to do it but couldn't get myself to do that - like the time a fantastic look lady came into the isle I was on and the Lord clearly asked me to inquire if she was going to church tomorrow, which happened to be Easter Sunday, but I could get myself to talk to her. Which was even worse after I asked Him for help and He got her to suddenly talk to me about doing a bar-b-que the next day. It would have been so simply to just say something like 'Are you doing that bar-b-que after going to church?' But I could even get myself to respond like that.

The point is: That a day will come that we will declare that we are worthless servants because we only did what He said, knowing that even needed help from Him. Still He will consider us faithful because we believed that He was there and did say things to us, so we did something for Him.

So what about the question: "How can Christ's work be sufficient for our justification when our salvation also requires our obedience?" - well that is bunch of religious non-sense - that's what about the question! Yeah, we are justified by Him, and we get salvation from Him, and faith with obedience too from Him - but if someone is asking do they know Him? If so, why are they asking us? Ask Him, and if you do know Him it will be easy for Him to show you what was going on in your own life!

I should probably be a bit nicer and more understanding. Yet when you read the Bible you find the authors getting a bit done by those religious spirits in people. Look again at what James wrote - was he not a bit upset with those pretending to be pious but clearly not taking things to the Lord - or why did James write what He did?

James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Wow, writing "you foolish fellow" is not what I would write, but I might think it.