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The Gospel Plus "NOTHING"

Robert Pate said:
That is your Catholic doctrine.
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Actually it's Jesus' doctrine.

Robert Pate said:
Paul says that we are saved by faith, Ephesians 2:8-9.
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Eph 2:8-9 does not say we are saved by faith alone.

Robert Pate said:
Nothing about baptism.
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Paul writes much about baptism
Or are you unaware that we who were baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection.
(Rom 6:3-4)

“..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (1Cor 6:11)

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; (Col 2:11-13)

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27).

" But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commissioned us; he has put his seal upon us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee." (2Cor 121-:22)

In none of those quotes does Paul mention faith.
Does that mean that faith is not required?
Of course not. You have to take ALL scripture into account. Not just pick out a few bits.


Robert Pate said:
Since Paul is a New Covenant Christian, I will believe Paul.
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Well I believe Jesus.
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
 
Robert Pate said:
There are two different kinds of baptism. There is water baptism and then there is spiritual baptism. We are spiritually baptized unto Christ when we believe the Gospel,

"This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the (because you did something) of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
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Then there are three kinds of baptism: baptism in water, baptism by the Holy Spirit, and baptism "unto" Christ.
 
Mungo said:
Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom.
"For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Rom 14:17)

"He has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son" (Col 1:13)

"These are the only men of the circumcision among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God, and they have been a comfort to me." (Col 4:11)

And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, arguing and pleading about the kingdom of God (Acts 19:8)

And he expounded the matter to them from morning till evening, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the law of Moses and from the prophets. (Acts 28:23)

And many more.
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Mungo, you are posting much truth because you are studying the word and grasping it. A good sign, keep going, keep searching for the truth in the scripture outside of the RC teaching. You will find it rewarding.
If we were on a remote island and people dropped in bibles for us, we would not come up with the roman church, no roasary beads, scapulas, priests, popes, nuns, holy water, first 'HOLY COMMUNION"confessionals,etc.
 
Mungo said:
We are baptised into Christ when we are baptised with water. At that time the Holy Spirit is given to us.
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There is no scripture that says water baptism saves anyone.

We are baptized into Christ when we hear and believe the Gospel.
"This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
 
Mungo said:
We are baptised into Christ when we are baptised with water. At that time the Holy Spirit is given to us.
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You are clearly confused. Try following the Bible instead of your denominational doctrine.

Romans 6:4, "Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life."

If your claim has any merit, which it doesn't, why weren't all the people that John baptized in water baptized into Christ?
 
Robert Pate said:
There is no scripture that says water baptism saves anyone.
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1 Pet 3:21
Baptism, ......, now saves you

Mk 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved

Robert Pate said:
We are baptized into Christ when we hear and believe the Gospel.
"This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
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all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Gal 3:27).

But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us, by putting his seal on us and giving us his Spirit in our hearts as a first installment. (2Cor 1:22)

When we are clothed with Christ we have been put into Christ and God gives us the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Just as was prophesied by Ezekial (Ez 36:25-27):
 
jaybo said:
You are clearly confused. Try following the Bible instead of your denominational doctrine.

Romans 6:4, "Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life."

If your claim has any merit, which it doesn't, why weren't all the people that John baptized in water baptized into Christ?
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Because John's baptism was only a baptism of repentance. It was OT ritual not baptism in Jesus name.

That is why when Paul found out that the 12 men at Ephesus had only been baptised with John's baptism he told them they must be baptised "in name of the Lord Jesus."
Try following the Bible instead of your personal doctrine.
 
Mungo said:
1 Pet 3:21
Baptism, ......, now saves you
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Notice a clear or clean conscience, not the water as cleaning the flesh, which infants at the baptismal font know nothing about.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21 — New Living Translation (NLT)​

21 And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 — New Century Version (NCV)​

21 And that water is like baptism that now saves you—not the washing of dirt from the body, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. And this is because Jesus Christ was raised from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21 — American Standard Version (ASV)​

21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 3:21 — 1890 Darby Bible (DARBY)​

21 which figure also now saves you, even baptism, not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the demand as before God of a good conscience, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 — GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)​

21 Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.

1 Peter 3:21 — The Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)​

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 — The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)​

21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)​

21 And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 — New International Reader’s Version (1998) (NIrV)​

21 The water of the flood is a picture of the baptism that now saves you also. The baptism I’m talking about has nothing to do with removing dirt from your body. Instead, it promises God that you will keep a clear sense of what is right and wrong.
Jesus Christ has saved you by rising from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21 — New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (NASB95)​

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 
Iconoclast said:
Notice a clear or clean conscience, not the water as cleaning the flesh, which infants at the baptismal font know nothing about.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21 — New Living Translation (NLT)​

21 And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 — New Century Version (NCV)​

21 And that water is like baptism that now saves you—not the washing of dirt from the body, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. And this is because Jesus Christ was raised from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21 — American Standard Version (ASV)​

21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 3:21 — 1890 Darby Bible (DARBY)​

21 which figure also now saves you, even baptism, not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the demand as before God of a good conscience, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 — GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)​

21 Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.

1 Peter 3:21 — The Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)​

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 — The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)​

21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)​

21 And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 3:21 — New International Reader’s Version (1998) (NIrV)​

21 The water of the flood is a picture of the baptism that now saves you also. The baptism I’m talking about has nothing to do with removing dirt from your body. Instead, it promises God that you will keep a clear sense of what is right and wrong.
Jesus Christ has saved you by rising from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21 — New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (NASB95)​

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
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Exactly! It's a spiritual cleansing not a physical one.
 
Baptism has nothing to do with one's salvation. We are saved and justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus and not because you got wet. To say that baptism saves is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.
 
Robert Pate said:
Baptism has nothing to do with one's salvation. We are saved and justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus and not because you got wet. To say that baptism saves is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.
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Iconoclast said:
yes...notice...towards God...Mungo...an infant does not know or do that. An adult can when God works in him or her.
The Church can not confer this. only the Spirit does.
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We are not discussing infant baptism.
That is a whole new issue.
 
Robert Pate said:
Baptism has nothing to do with one's salvation. We are saved and justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus and not because you got wet. To say that baptism saves is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.
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According to scripture baptism has a lot to do with our salvation.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
Baptism, .......now saves you (1Pet 3:21)
 
Mungo said:
According to scripture baptism has a lot to do with our salvation.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
Baptism, .......now saves you (1Pet 3:21)
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Baptism is a work. It is something that we do. God does not recognize or accept the works of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him. If God accepted our works and our obedience, then Jesus Christ lived and died in vain.
 
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Robert Pate said:
Baptism is a work. It is something that we do. God does not recognize or accept the works of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him. If God accepted our works and our obedience, then Jesus Christ lived and died in vain. Perhaps this is why your Catholic religion is anti-Christ.
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As I have pointed out before (several times) faith is also a work (mental work).
 
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