- Apr 22, 2011
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- #21
If people would read and Spiritually understand that which has already been written and given by the Holy Spirit instead of man's traditional theories then they would know the truth.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
The Great White Throne Judgement
- Thread starter for_his_glory
- Start date
The difficulty is that the Lord has hidden the understanding of the Prophesies, from the 'wise and learned'. Matthew 11:25-26
He does this so as His Plans are not known to all and sundry. But as Daniel 12:10 says: a few wise leaders will understand. What is needed is a cleared mind, [of all mans theories and doctrines] intensive study of ALL the Bible and prayer for help and enlightenment.
- Dec 2, 2022
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Elijah7777
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- Oct 30, 2024
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I was seeking God and God showed me Jesus, Jesus showed me the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lead me back to Jesus and Jesus lead me back to God.
The Holy Spirit is often described as our teacher and guide, leading believers into truth, wisdom, and understanding. In John 14:26, Jesus says: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
The Holy Spirit provides guidance, conviction, and comfort, helping believers navigate life with spiritual insight.
- Dec 2, 2022
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no the Holy spirit leads the apostles (apostolic church) into all truth they must teach us! otherwise it's spiritual chaos and anarchy! Jn 16:13
Christ founded the apostolic church to teach (truth revealed by Christ) and sanctify (administer the grace of baptism) all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19-20 the church has the authority of Christ in union with Christ!
Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:1-8
Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17-18
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…
thks
I understand the Scriptures to teach that there will be a Rapture of the church:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words". (1 Thess. 4:16-18)
The return of Jesus Christ is in TWO phases. The above is the FIRST PHASE when he comes FOR HIS SAINTS. He does not come all the way to the earth. The First coming of the Lord took 33-1/2 years to complete. the second coming may take longer to complete. When Jesus "raptures" the saints to heaven (the dead first, and then those who are alive) it comprises ALL believers. it is the WHOLE church. The TRIBULATION period of 7 years will begin at the Rapture. The last 3-1/2 years of that 7 years is the GREAT TRIBULATION.
During that 7 year Tribulation the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST will take place in Heaven. We don't know how long that will take. The Judgment Seat of Christ will not be punishment (as Christ died for our sins on the cross and already took all of God's wrath upon Himself). It will be a Judgment of how believers used their bodies on earth for the Lord: were they faithful? Were they unfaithful? Did they produce silver, gold and jewels, or wood hay and stubble? The Bible says that some will receive no reward, but will be "saved as though by fire". The faithful will receive crowns which will be thrown at Jesus' feet. The true sadness for those who don't receive crowns won't be that they have no crown to wear----it will be that they have no crown to throw at the feet of Jesus!
Some say that only the faithful will be raptured, and the rest left to go through the Tribulation to be tried, etc. But this is not true. The WHOLE CHURCH will be raptured-----HOWEVER, only those found FAITHFUL (at the Judgment Seat of Christ) will RETURN WITH JESUS TO EARTH --THE SECOND PHASE). In this Phase Jesus comes WITH HIS SAINTS. The first phase was Jesus coming FOR his saints---the second Phase is Jesus coming WITH his saints. Due to their faithfulness, part of the reward will be to ride white horses and return with Him to the earth. The "unfaithful" will not have this privilege. Again, this is not saying some are lost and some saved----ALL ARE SAVED. But the faithful will have the privilege to return with Christ to earth. There is no need to leave the unfaithful on earth to go through the Tribulation---the unfaithful will be judged at the Judgment seat of Christ---and the "judgment" they receive is LACK OF REWARD----NOT PUNISHMENT or WRATH.
It is important to see that there are TWO PHASES of this return. If you don't see that then you confuse the two and try to make it one return in one phase---that's where the problem lies in a lot of interpretations. Again, Jesus FIRST comes FOR his saints (the Rapture), then returns WITH his saints (Enoch mentions this phase--see Jude for this prophecy of Enoch:
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming WITH thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him" (Jude 14, 15).
This is the second and final phase of His return where he puts his feet on the Mount of Olives. And he destroys the Anti-Christ. A thousand years will then pass (and Satan will be locked up during that time). At the end of the thousand years Satan is loosed, and then the world is finally judged. Then comes the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT when unbelievers are resurrected. They have rejected Grace and so will be shown by their works why they are being throne into the Lake of Fire. This is the very end of time and the beginning of eternity.
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words". (1 Thess. 4:16-18)
The return of Jesus Christ is in TWO phases. The above is the FIRST PHASE when he comes FOR HIS SAINTS. He does not come all the way to the earth. The First coming of the Lord took 33-1/2 years to complete. the second coming may take longer to complete. When Jesus "raptures" the saints to heaven (the dead first, and then those who are alive) it comprises ALL believers. it is the WHOLE church. The TRIBULATION period of 7 years will begin at the Rapture. The last 3-1/2 years of that 7 years is the GREAT TRIBULATION.
During that 7 year Tribulation the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST will take place in Heaven. We don't know how long that will take. The Judgment Seat of Christ will not be punishment (as Christ died for our sins on the cross and already took all of God's wrath upon Himself). It will be a Judgment of how believers used their bodies on earth for the Lord: were they faithful? Were they unfaithful? Did they produce silver, gold and jewels, or wood hay and stubble? The Bible says that some will receive no reward, but will be "saved as though by fire". The faithful will receive crowns which will be thrown at Jesus' feet. The true sadness for those who don't receive crowns won't be that they have no crown to wear----it will be that they have no crown to throw at the feet of Jesus!
Some say that only the faithful will be raptured, and the rest left to go through the Tribulation to be tried, etc. But this is not true. The WHOLE CHURCH will be raptured-----HOWEVER, only those found FAITHFUL (at the Judgment Seat of Christ) will RETURN WITH JESUS TO EARTH --THE SECOND PHASE). In this Phase Jesus comes WITH HIS SAINTS. The first phase was Jesus coming FOR his saints---the second Phase is Jesus coming WITH his saints. Due to their faithfulness, part of the reward will be to ride white horses and return with Him to the earth. The "unfaithful" will not have this privilege. Again, this is not saying some are lost and some saved----ALL ARE SAVED. But the faithful will have the privilege to return with Christ to earth. There is no need to leave the unfaithful on earth to go through the Tribulation---the unfaithful will be judged at the Judgment seat of Christ---and the "judgment" they receive is LACK OF REWARD----NOT PUNISHMENT or WRATH.
It is important to see that there are TWO PHASES of this return. If you don't see that then you confuse the two and try to make it one return in one phase---that's where the problem lies in a lot of interpretations. Again, Jesus FIRST comes FOR his saints (the Rapture), then returns WITH his saints (Enoch mentions this phase--see Jude for this prophecy of Enoch:
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming WITH thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him" (Jude 14, 15).
This is the second and final phase of His return where he puts his feet on the Mount of Olives. And he destroys the Anti-Christ. A thousand years will then pass (and Satan will be locked up during that time). At the end of the thousand years Satan is loosed, and then the world is finally judged. Then comes the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT when unbelievers are resurrected. They have rejected Grace and so will be shown by their works why they are being throne into the Lake of Fire. This is the very end of time and the beginning of eternity.
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Elijah7777
Member
- Oct 30, 2024
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You can not say no to a person's testimony, it is what it is.
Elijah7777
Member
- Oct 30, 2024
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This sounds more like a resurrection than a rapture.
Elijah7777
Member
- Oct 30, 2024
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I have heard this before. God offers us a very good deal. He forgives us and still gives us rewards on top of that. But if He did not reward us, then we would to some degree pay for our own salvation and we know Jesus paid it all.
Ephesians 2:9, states: "not by works, so that no one can boast." This verse emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, not something earned through human effort.
- Apr 22, 2011
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- Thread starter
- #30
So, according to what the Catholic church teaches, are we to just rip out of the Bible what Jesus told us in John 14:26?
Just as God gave to Jesus what to speak and do, John 12:49, Jesus also gave first to the Apostles who were the first to receive the Holy Spirit through the Baptism of Christ in the upper room on the day of Pentecost. They were sent out to teach what Jesus gave them to speak and do, just as we who are anointed by the Holy Spirit to continue to take those teachings out into the world. Man's religion has nothing to do with the true teachings of Christ.
- Apr 22, 2011
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- 16,567
- Thread starter
- #31
Jesus never taught a pretrib Rapture nor a seven year tribulation period.
Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the 1800’s had a vision of a pretrib rapture, but she felt that the vision felt dark and evil as an untruth. When telling others of her vision many preachers ran with it as being true and started teaching their theories on pretrib rapture. There theories were handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.
There is no mention in scripture about a secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance, 1Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 1:7; John 14:17; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22 .
God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seventh trumpet, not a seven year tribulation, as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 1/2 years or 3 Times as the Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 1/2 years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5
No where in scripture does it mention a seven year tribulation, but only seven trumpets of God's fierce wrath as scripture says we will always have tribulations as the last time will be such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, Matthew 24:21; Deuteronomy 4:30-31; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1 Samuel 26:24; Matthew; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6.
- Dec 2, 2022
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no rapture only the second coming after the tribulation
thks
the rapture was a fundamentalist invention of the 18 century in the burned over district!
The crowns have nothing to do with salvation. The crowns are given based on what you did AFTER you were saved in your body as a Christian.
- Dec 2, 2022
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rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
- Dec 2, 2022
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Jn 14:26 Jn 16:13 refers to the apostles who are to teach all men! matt 28:19
thks
Elijah7777
Member
- Oct 30, 2024
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Yes, that is what I said. Sorry I did not make that more clear.
