The Holy Spirit and Salvation ! -

[savedbygrace57]

as

Not so.

Yes so..

 

[Digger]

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Thats is correct. For it is the Holy Spirit that effects their obedience ! 1 Pet 1:2

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God has given the Holy Spirit to those obeying Him, their obeying Him is Proof or evidence of that..

 

[Digger]

Thats is correct. For it is the Holy Spirit that effects their obedience ! 1 Pet 1:2

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God has given the Holy Spirit to those obeying Him, their obeying Him is Proof or evidence of that..

You are teaching dangerous error.

When the long winded rhetoric is stripped from your words you are simply one who has turned the grace of God into a license to keep on sinning.

In post number 2 in this thread you teach that faith is not a condition that we must meet in order to be saved...

Yes Faith is essential to salvation, the bible makes that clear, but the error of today is that its a condition for getting saved...the fatal error in religion today is saying that faith or believing is a condition for salvation we must meet

Rather, according to you Jesus did it all and we have to do nothing,

...for every condition for bestowing salvation on the chosen has been met by Christ and through Him by The Spirit

Thus, in your theology, anything we do is simply a fruit of already being saved. This is really the underlying foundation of every post you make. You have perverted the Gospel by taking the conditions of repentance and faith and removed then from being the responsibility of the individual and instead shifted them to God and implied that these are things that He will make one do at some stage and then that will be the evidence that one was already one of the elect. Nonsense. Dangerous nonsense!

The prodigal son chose, of his own free will, to forsake the fields he shared with the pigs and return to the father. This didn't save him but in doing so he met a condition that the father required in order that he be saved.

Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

Your teaching has the father going to the pig pen and dragging the son out. When people believe that that it serves to soothe any conviction which would lead to a genuine repentance and conversion.

Wickedness has to be forsaken willfully before pardon is granted.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

One must first be willing.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

As it was with Israel it is the same with us.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

It is by faith that one does these things.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It was through a working obedient believing faith that Noah put the grace of God to use and thus was preserved through the flood.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Noah's faith and obedience was not evidence that he was already saved. That is pure nonsense.

God's grace is freely given, but it must be put to use via and authentic believing faith lest it be received to no working effect.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:



One of the reasons that you believe that Jesus did it all and that we have to do nothing is that you have fallen prey to the deception of the Penal Substitution view of the atonement as taught by John Calvin.

I recommend reading up on this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement_in_Christianity

If Jesus was punished in your place then of course there would be no sin that you could do that would bring you under condemnation. Double jeopardy would rule this out. This is the reason why those who are deceived by this doctrine explain away all the scriptural warnings about falling away. It is a doctrine that gives comfort to people who have not departed from iniquity.

The propitiatory offering of Christ's blood only covers the past sins of those who have forsaken their sins in repentance.

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luk_24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Hence it is only if you are walking in the light that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you from all sin.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[savedbygrace57]

digger

You are teaching dangerous error.

You are nt able to discern the Truth !

 

[savedbygrace57]

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/faith of the truth:

Those who are sanctified by the Holy Spirit, do believe the Truth, because Faith is the fruit of sanctification of the Spirit Gal 5:22, only the Spiritual Alive believe in Christ !

 

[John O]

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/faith of the truth:

Those who are sanctified by the Holy Spirit, do believe the Truth, because Faith is the fruit of sanctification of the Spirit Gal 5:22, only the Spiritual Alive believe in Christ !

Oops according to your definition of salvation this part of the verse would not be possible through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/faith of the truth:

Belief and Faith would be works according to your definition so sorry no cigar salvation would not be available to you because it would be by works.

John O

 

[John O]

The Holy Spirit has been sent to us as our tutor that we might know God. Those who respond to the prompting of the Holy Spirit will be saved as they call upon the name of the Lord.

(oops for some that might be works but for the rest of us that's grace)

John O

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Holy Spirit has been sent to us as our tutor that we might know God. Those who respond to the prompting of the Holy Spirit will be saved as they call upon the name of the Lord.

(oops for some that might be works but for the rest of us that's grace)

John O

You teach salvation by works, by something man does , which this time you call respond !

The word respond means:

to reply or answer in words: to respond briefly to a question.
2. to make a return by some action as if in answer: to respond generously to a charity drive.

3. to react favorably.

The word action means:

something done or performed; act; deed.

The greek word for work in scripture is ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupieda) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So this confirms you teach salvation by works ! And the same goes for anyone agreeing with you !

 

[John O]

You teach salvation by works, by something man does , which this time you call respond !

The word respond means:

to reply or answer in words: to respond briefly to a question.
2. to make a return by some action as if in answer: to respond generously to a charity drive.

3. to react favorably.

The word action means:

something done or performed; act; deed.

The greek word for work in scripture is ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupieda) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So this confirms you teach salvation by works ! And the same goes for anyone agreeing with you !

The problem with your view on this means that no one can be saved. Can you explain how you are saved? Did you suddenly wake up saved one morning?

I would be most interested to hear your salvation experience.

John O

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Holy Spirit has been sent to us as our tutor that we might know God.

The Holy Spirit was not sent to everyone in the World Jn 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:16-18&version=KJV

 

[John O]

The Holy Spirit was not sent to everyone in the World Jn 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Come on savedbygrace your interpretation does not match what this verse said. What it says is that those who follow after the world system and self can not receive Him because to receive they must repent and they choose not to.

I asked previously of your salvation I would love to know and I am sure others would. Declare it that God might get the glory>

John O

 

[John O]

The Holy Ghost in Salvation !


Now what happened here in 1 Thess 1, it is but as it was in Acts 2, the Word as preached by Peter was coming in power and the Holy Ghost and much assurance converting power!

This shows us how the New Covenant Israel was being formed by adding both jew and gentiles converts, Abraham's Seed of believers, they also receiving the Spirit of promise Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

1

Is not our God Great well written.

John O

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Holy Spirit gives Life ! But to who ?

Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

In the Covenant of Grace or the Everlasting Covenant, the Holy Spirit gives life, spiritual life, to all those Christ has died for, and has on their behalf satisfied law and Justice, and have had Righteousness laid to their account ! This Righteousness which is not their own, demands Life, as the saying is True, in the way of Righteousness is Life ! 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[John O]

The Holy Spirit gives Life ! But to who ?

Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

In the Covenant of Grace or the Everlasting Covenant, the Holy Spirit gives life, spiritual life, to all those Christ has died for, and has on their behalf satisfied law and Justice, and have had Righteousness laid to their account ! This Righteousness which is not their own, demands Life, as the saying is True, in the way of Righteousness is Life ! 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

You are on a roll good stuff if only you could accept He died for all, but other than that it is a well set out piece of writing.

John O

 

[John O]

Unto Obedience !


1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

All for whom Christ died shall be made obedient which is an effect and fruit of the success of His Death. The Holy Spirit is responsible in the Covenant engagement to bring all for whom Christ died to obedience to the Faith Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

These here are the Elect of God, Elect according to the Foreknowledge of God the Father, because He chose them in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats why they are the foreknown, and they were Chosen to Obedience or to Faith and the Holy Spirit brings that about, this comes through the New Birth for they are begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is how the Elect begin their New Life of Obedience, for the word begotten us again in the greek is the word anagennaō and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

We have our minds changed [repentance] so that we do live a new life, one conformed to the will of God, that's the beginning of Obedience !

This is but the fulfillment of the Covenant Promise that promised obedience Ezk 36:26-27


26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

You see that ? Thats promised obedience ! This is the Ministry of the New Covenant, the administration of the Spirit 2 Cor 3:5-8, So the Apostles knew as they were directed to Preach the Gospel , they knew that those who obeyed, that God had given them the Spirit Ezk 36:27

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And so Peter declared that God had given the Spirit of promise to those obeying Him Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Which are these 1 Pet 1:1-2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

If they were obeying, it was because they had partaken of the Holy Spirit's Sanctification !

Nope back to the old line- Sorry but salvation is available to all.

John O

 

[Elijah674]

Re: The Holy Spirit and Salvation ! -

--Elijah here:

This is the issue.

Mankind was not needing to be reborn before he was lost. He freely went against the fatal WARNING of God. He LOST the Rightous Garment that was Given on condition of [WORKING] Obedience.

And then? God tells us that there was only one way to be reclaimed, His PLAN REQUIRED [WORKING] OBEDIENCE. It was then & only then that the Holy Spirit would ever be given again! Acts 5:32. And even then.. it was only the 'earnest of the Holy Spirit' as a type of down payment to see if one's final faith would find them at the end of life safe to save in full maturity! Nah. 1:9 + Heb. 11:1-13.

And agreed, that [[IF]] one would 'submit' 100% to the Lord's plan & stay submitted, ALL PROVISION WOULD BE SUPPLIED! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9.


And as Heb. 12:4-8 & beyond, show all of us, we can at any time freely choose not to stay partakers. ibid 8. Rom. 8:14 is ETERNAL GOSPEL of free Choice!

Lets say that nobody had freewill, would we really still have a need for The Holy Spirit or for the Eternal Plan of Salvation? NO, there would be NO need for mankind to be created as anything other than BRAIN/DEAD robots!

No Condition of OBEDIENCE, finds NO saved person in Eternity! He was GRIEVED

for 120 years with only 8 souls being saved going into the Ark!(without Acts 5:32's Eternal Condition!) And God says.. 'What is new????????

NOTHING!​

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Dear Saved, I have really enjoyed your postings, but I suspect there are many reading this who cannot relate to the salvation you have experienced. You would only know the things you speak to if you have recieved the Holy Spirit from Christ and I wonder how many reading this actually have. As you know, it is a physical and spiritual transformation too few enjoy these days. We are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise Which is the earnest of our inheritance.....That is God's pledge to us of the new nature, and a pledge of future gifts, thus differing from other pledges. In any case, keep up the good fight of the purchased possession, bringing glory to our LORD.

Let me ask this for clarification: Are you saying that what you describe here does not happen to every believer once they recognize they are sinners in need of a Savior who is Christ, who by the power of the Holy Spirit acting upon (as opposed to "within") them to open their mind to salvation, who then make a true and sincere confession of faith that is acceptable to God? Is that what you are saying, that what you describe is a separate event?

 

[watchman333]

Let me ask this for clarification: Are you saying that what you describe here does not happen to every believer once they recognize they are sinners in need of a Savior who is Christ, who by the power of the Holy Spirit acting upon (as opposed to "within") them to open their mind to salvation, who then make a true and sincere confession of faith that is acceptable to God? Is that what you are saying, that what you describe is a separate event?

Dear Disconnect, I would have to be a lawyer, which I am not, to answer the question the way you pose it. Let me just say this: When my Beloved saved me, I KNEW it, it was a total transformation of soul & spirit and it happened immediately. It would be impossible to know how others are saved outside of what the Scriptures tell us or their own testimony. Additionally, I think some who think they are saved, are not. I hope that clarifies a little.

 

[Sparkey]

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