S
savedbygrace57
Guest
as
Yes so..
Yes so..
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
The Holy Spirit and Salvation ! -
- Thread starter Sam21
- Start date
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Thats is correct. For it is the Holy Spirit that effects their obedience ! 1 Pet 1:2
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
God has given the Holy Spirit to those obeying Him, their obeying Him is Proof or evidence of that..
You are teaching dangerous error.
When the long winded rhetoric is stripped from your words you are simply one who has turned the grace of God into a license to keep on sinning.
In post number 2 in this thread you teach that faith is not a condition that we must meet in order to be saved...
savedbygrace57 said:
Rather, according to you Jesus did it all and we have to do nothing,
savedbygrace57 said:
Thus, in your theology, anything we do is simply a fruit of already being saved. This is really the underlying foundation of every post you make. You have perverted the Gospel by taking the conditions of repentance and faith and removed then from being the responsibility of the individual and instead shifted them to God and implied that these are things that He will make one do at some stage and then that will be the evidence that one was already one of the elect. Nonsense. Dangerous nonsense!
The prodigal son chose, of his own free will, to forsake the fields he shared with the pigs and return to the father. This didn't save him but in doing so he met a condition that the father required in order that he be saved.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Your teaching has the father going to the pig pen and dragging the son out. When people believe that that it serves to soothe any conviction which would lead to a genuine repentance and conversion.
Wickedness has to be forsaken willfully before pardon is granted.
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
One must first be willing.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
As it was with Israel it is the same with us.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
It is by faith that one does these things.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
It was through a working obedient believing faith that Noah put the grace of God to use and thus was preserved through the flood.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah's faith and obedience was not evidence that he was already saved. That is pure nonsense.
God's grace is freely given, but it must be put to use via and authentic believing faith lest it be received to no working effect.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
One of the reasons that you believe that Jesus did it all and that we have to do nothing is that you have fallen prey to the deception of the Penal Substitution view of the atonement as taught by John Calvin.
I recommend reading up on this issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement_in_Christianity
If Jesus was punished in your place then of course there would be no sin that you could do that would bring you under condemnation. Double jeopardy would rule this out. This is the reason why those who are deceived by this doctrine explain away all the scriptural warnings about falling away. It is a doctrine that gives comfort to people who have not departed from iniquity.
The propitiatory offering of Christ's blood only covers the past sins of those who have forsaken their sins in repentance.
Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luk_24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Hence it is only if you are walking in the light that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you from all sin.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
digger
You are nt able to discern the Truth !
You are nt able to discern the Truth !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/faith of the truth:
Those who are sanctified by the Holy Spirit, do believe the Truth, because Faith is the fruit of sanctification of the Spirit Gal 5:22, only the Spiritual Alive believe in Christ !
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/faith of the truth:
Those who are sanctified by the Holy Spirit, do believe the Truth, because Faith is the fruit of sanctification of the Spirit Gal 5:22, only the Spiritual Alive believe in Christ !
Oops according to your definition of salvation this part of the verse would not be possible through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/faith of the truth:
Belief and Faith would be works according to your definition so sorry no cigar salvation would not be available to you because it would be by works.
John O
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
You teach salvation by works, by something man does , which this time you call respond !
The word respond means:
to reply or answer in words: to respond briefly to a question.
2. to make a return by some action as if in answer: to respond generously to a charity drive.
3. to react favorably.
The word action means:
something done or performed; act; deed.
The greek word for work in scripture is ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupieda) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
So this confirms you teach salvation by works ! And the same goes for anyone agreeing with you !
Last edited by a moderator:
The problem with your view on this means that no one can be saved. Can you explain how you are saved? Did you suddenly wake up saved one morning?
I would be most interested to hear your salvation experience.
John O
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Holy Spirit was not sent to everyone in the World Jn 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:16-18&version=KJV
Come on savedbygrace your interpretation does not match what this verse said. What it says is that those who follow after the world system and self can not receive Him because to receive they must repent and they choose not to.
I asked previously of your salvation I would love to know and I am sure others would. Declare it that God might get the glory>
John O
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Holy Spirit gives Life ! But to who ?
Prov 12:28
In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
In the Covenant of Grace or the Everlasting Covenant, the Holy Spirit gives life, spiritual life, to all those Christ has died for, and has on their behalf satisfied law and Justice, and have had Righteousness laid to their account ! This Righteousness which is not their own, demands Life, as the saying is True, in the way of Righteousness is Life ! 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Prov 12:28
In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
In the Covenant of Grace or the Everlasting Covenant, the Holy Spirit gives life, spiritual life, to all those Christ has died for, and has on their behalf satisfied law and Justice, and have had Righteousness laid to their account ! This Righteousness which is not their own, demands Life, as the saying is True, in the way of Righteousness is Life ! 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You are on a roll good stuff if only you could accept He died for all, but other than that it is a well set out piece of writing.
John O
E
Elijah674
Guest
Re: The Holy Spirit and Salvation ! -
--Elijah here:
This is the issue.
Mankind was not needing to be reborn before he was lost. He freely went against the fatal WARNING of God. He LOST the Rightous Garment that was Given on condition of [WORKING] Obedience.
And then? God tells us that there was only one way to be reclaimed, His PLAN REQUIRED [WORKING] OBEDIENCE. It was then & only then that the Holy Spirit would ever be given again! Acts 5:32. And even then.. it was only the 'earnest of the Holy Spirit' as a type of down payment to see if one's final faith would find them at the end of life safe to save in full maturity! Nah. 1:9 + Heb. 11:1-13.
And agreed, that [[IF]] one would 'submit' 100% to the Lord's plan & stay submitted, ALL PROVISION WOULD BE SUPPLIED! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9.
And as Heb. 12:4-8 & beyond, show all of us, we can at any time freely choose not to stay partakers. ibid 8. Rom. 8:14 is ETERNAL GOSPEL of free Choice!
Lets say that nobody had freewill, would we really still have a need for The Holy Spirit or for the Eternal Plan of Salvation? NO, there would be NO need for mankind to be created as anything other than BRAIN/DEAD robots!
No Condition of OBEDIENCE, finds NO saved person in Eternity! He was GRIEVED
for 120 years with only 8 souls being saved going into the Ark!(without Acts 5:32's Eternal Condition!) And God says.. 'What is new????????
NOTHING!
This is the issue.
Mankind was not needing to be reborn before he was lost. He freely went against the fatal WARNING of God. He LOST the Rightous Garment that was Given on condition of [WORKING] Obedience.
And then? God tells us that there was only one way to be reclaimed, His PLAN REQUIRED [WORKING] OBEDIENCE. It was then & only then that the Holy Spirit would ever be given again! Acts 5:32. And even then.. it was only the 'earnest of the Holy Spirit' as a type of down payment to see if one's final faith would find them at the end of life safe to save in full maturity! Nah. 1:9 + Heb. 11:1-13.
And agreed, that [[IF]] one would 'submit' 100% to the Lord's plan & stay submitted, ALL PROVISION WOULD BE SUPPLIED! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9.
And as Heb. 12:4-8 & beyond, show all of us, we can at any time freely choose not to stay partakers. ibid 8. Rom. 8:14 is ETERNAL GOSPEL of free Choice!
Lets say that nobody had freewill, would we really still have a need for The Holy Spirit or for the Eternal Plan of Salvation? NO, there would be NO need for mankind to be created as anything other than BRAIN/DEAD robots!
No Condition of OBEDIENCE, finds NO saved person in Eternity! He was GRIEVED
NOTHING!
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Let me ask this for clarification: Are you saying that what you describe here does not happen to every believer once they recognize they are sinners in need of a Savior who is Christ, who by the power of the Holy Spirit acting upon (as opposed to "within") them to open their mind to salvation, who then make a true and sincere confession of faith that is acceptable to God? Is that what you are saying, that what you describe is a separate event?
watchman333
Member
Dear Disconnect, I would have to be a lawyer, which I am not, to answer the question the way you pose it. Let me just say this: When my Beloved saved me, I KNEW it, it was a total transformation of soul & spirit and it happened immediately. It would be impossible to know how others are saved outside of what the Scriptures tell us or their own testimony. Additionally, I think some who think they are saved, are not. I hope that clarifies a little.
MODERATOR NOTE: I have split this thread sending many of the posts that were deemed to be "blog style" postings to the section of our forum designed for that purpose.
Please follow continue your efforts to follow the Stickies and guidelines while posting here. It is every member's responsibility to check ToS, SoF, Announcements and Stickies regularly, otherwise they may miss important information. Links to this information may be found in the TopMenu under the heading "QuickLinks"
************************
Kindly accept my apology for any apparent loss of continuity incurred by this action and know that your continued cooperation with these factors in mind is appreciated by myself and by your Staff here at ChristianForums.net in general. The posts that were split may be read in their entirety at their new location in the Personal Blog forum, here: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=54324
Cordially,
Sparrowhawke
Please follow continue your efforts to follow the Stickies and guidelines while posting here. It is every member's responsibility to check ToS, SoF, Announcements and Stickies regularly, otherwise they may miss important information. Links to this information may be found in the TopMenu under the heading "QuickLinks"
- Forum: Ye Old Apologetics & Theology
Discuss topics related to defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines and theology.
Prior to posting, please see STICKIES found above the Ye Old A&T forum including: Posting and Answering post in Apologetics & Theology
- Forum: Bible related Personal Blog Threads
Place your Bible related blog entries here.
Prior to posting, please see Please see STICKIES found above the Personal Blog forum including: PLEASE READ: Purpose of this Forum.
************************
Kindly accept my apology for any apparent loss of continuity incurred by this action and know that your continued cooperation with these factors in mind is appreciated by myself and by your Staff here at ChristianForums.net in general. The posts that were split may be read in their entirety at their new location in the Personal Blog forum, here: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=54324
Cordially,
Sparrowhawke