The Israelis Survived

[edwin]

It goes even beyond that.....it includes those that lived before Jesus was born. Please realize that the House of Israel is not the Jews. Many people think the Jews is Israel…..they are not. The tribe of Israel separated themselves from Judah after the death of Solomon, and became an independent Nation seperate from Judah. The house of Israel is the 12 tribes of Israel, which the tribe of Judah (Jews) is only one of the twelve. In truth though, the name Israel rightfuly belong to Ephraim and Manasseh.

Those of the House of Israel that have died will be among those in the second resurrection, and will be living under the New Covenant.

Ezekiel 37:1-28 (BBE)
1 The hand of the Lord had been on me, and he took me out in the spirit of the Lord and put me down in the middle of the valley; and it was full of bones;
2 And he made me go past them round about: and I saw that there was a very great number of them on the face of the wide valley, and they were very dry.
3 And he said to me, Son of man, is it possible for these bones to come to life? And I made answer, and said, It is for you to say, O Lord.
4 And again he said to me, Be a prophet to these bones, and say to them, O you dry bones, give ear to the word of the Lord.
5 This is what the Lord has said to these bones: See, I will make breath come into you so that you may come to life;
6 And I will put muscles on you and make flesh come on you, and put skin over you, and breath into you, so that you may have life; and you will be certain that I am the Lord.
7 So I gave the word as I was ordered: and at my words there was a shaking of the earth, and the bones came together, bone to bone.
8 And looking I saw that there were muscles on them and flesh came up, and they were covered with skin: but there was no breath in them.
9 And he said to me, Be a prophet to the wind, be a prophet, son of man, and say to the wind, The Lord has said: Come from the four winds, O wind, breathing on these dead so that they may come to life.
10 And I gave the word at his orders, and breath came into them, and they came to life and got up on their feet, a very great army.
11 Then he said to me, Son of man, these bones are all the children of Israel: and see, they are saying, Our bones have become dry our hope is gone, we are cut off completely.
12 For this cause be a prophet to them, and say, This is what the Lord has said: See, I am opening the resting-places of your dead, and I will make you come up out of your resting-places, O my people; and I will take you into the land of Israel.
13 And you will be certain that I am the Lord by my opening the resting-places of your dead and making you come up out of your resting-places, O my people.
14 And I will put my spirit in you, so that you may come to life, and I will give you a rest in your land: and you will be certain that I the Lord have said it and have done it, says the Lord.
15 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
16 And you, son of man, take one stick, writing on it, For Judah and for the children of Israel who are in his company: then take another stick, writing on it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and all the children of Israel who are in his company:
17 Then, joining them one to another, make them one stick, so that they may be one in your hand.
18 And when the children of your people say to you, Will you not make clear to us what these things have to do with us?
19 Then say to them, This is what the Lord has said: See, I am taking the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel who are in his company; and I will put it on the stick of Judah and make them one stick, and they will be one in my hand.
20 And the sticks with your writing on them will be in your hand before their eyes.
21 And say to them, These are the words of the Lord: See, I am taking the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and will get them together on every side, and take them into their land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king over them all: and they will no longer be two nations, and will no longer be parted into two kingdoms:
23 And they will no longer make themselves unclean with their images or with their hated things or with any of their sins: but I will give them salvation from all their turning away in which they have done evil, and will make them clean; and they will be to me a people, and I will be to them a God.
24 And my servant David will be king over them; and they will all have one keeper: and they will be guided by my orders and will keep my rules and do them.
25 And they will be living in the land which I gave to Jacob, my servant, in which your fathers were living; and they will go on living there, they and their children and their children's children, for ever: and David, my servant, will be their ruler for ever.
26 And I will make an agreement of peace with them: it will be an eternal agreement with them: and I will have mercy on them and make their numbers great, and will put my holy place among them for ever.
27 And my House will be over them; and I will be to them a God, and they will be to me a people.
28 And the nations will be certain that I who make Israel holy am the Lord, when my holy place is among them for ever.

I think there are numerous problems with your analysis. I suggest your read the entire chapter of Jeremiah and you will see that the theme is about the redemption of the Jewish people. Right from the start the prophet says that "yet again" Israel will be rebuilt. For something to happen "yet again" it had to have happened a first time- something which never is described in the Hebrew bible wrt the gentiles.

On numerous occasions the Hebrew Bible tells us that God's covenant with the Jewish people is eternal. Paul would have you believe that God realized he made the rules too tough and changed the rules even though God Himself tells us the laws were not too hard to follow (see Deut 30.v14).

The passage you quoted begins with prophet addressing both the House of Israel and the House of Judah, in other words an ingathered Jewish people. (Your other passage in Ezekiel does as well). This was not the situation in first century Judea since the House of Israel had been dispersed by Assyria more than 700 years prior to Jesus. The prophet speaks of "days are coming" when referring to both Houses, then later he mentions only the House of Israel in reference to an era "after those days"...ie. the days after the scattered Jewish people are repatriated. Did this occur in Jesus' time? Was there established universal knowledge of the God of Israel
(Jeremiah 31:33[34] – "And no longer shall they teach, a man his neighbor, and a man his brother, saying, 'Know the L-rd', for they shall all know Me, from their smallest to their greatest," says the L-rd, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will no longer remember.") in 33-34 C.E? If so please show us the proof.

 

[Bazz1040]

ah yes they do, we have to ask the lord to to forgive us.

what does this verse mean to you from acts 16:31 believe on the lord Jesus christ, and thou shall be saved, and thy house

and in addition romans 10:9 to 11.
its says that we must do something here. confess, what is the confession.

the lord asked those that crucified him and funny peter in acts told them they need to what repent,

see acts 2:17 to verse 38, and notice this part" Repent and be baptised every one of you" so then i guess peter was lying then or was the lord? does the bible contradict itself?

we have accept the lord's blood and change our ways, meaning that we acknowledge our sins and then act accordingly and pray for the power to stop sinning. The lord will answer that.

So you are saying that even though Jesus prayed to the Father to forgive those people who were crucifying Him, that they were not forgiven because they never asked for forgiveness? Do you only forgive someone that did you wrong only if they ask for forgiveness? Did Jesus ever teach the disciples only to forgive a person when they ask for forgiveness?

 

[jasoncran]

they have to accept that. we all do, the price is paid for our sins but we have to accept it. if we dont we are still in sin. that is what the lord meant by us believing in him.

if i give you 10 ten bucks as a gift you must open your hand and take it.
if not i still have it. the same with your sins. if you dont give the lord your sins he cant remove them.we must ask the lord to remove our sins and live accordingly.

 

[Bazz1040]

I think there are numerous problems with your analysis. I suggest your read the entire chapter of Jeremiah and you will see that the theme is about the redemption of the Jewish people. Right from the start the prophet says that "yet again" Israel will be rebuilt. For something to happen "yet again" it had to have happened a first time- something which never is described in the Hebrew bible wrt the gentiles.

On numerous occasions the Hebrew Bible tells us that God's covenant with the Jewish people is eternal. Paul would have you believe that God realized he made the rules too tough and changed the rules even though God Himself tells us the laws were not too hard to follow (see Deut 30.v14).

The passage you quoted begins with prophet addressing both the House of Israel and the House of Judah, in other words an ingathered Jewish people. (Your other passage in Ezekiel does as well). This was not the situation in first century Judea since the House of Israel had been dispersed by Assyria more than 700 years prior to Jesus. The prophet speaks of "days are coming" when referring to both Houses, then later he mentions only the House of Israel in reference to an era "after those days"...ie. the days after the scattered Jewish people are repatriated. Did this occur in Jesus' time? Was there established universal knowledge of the God of Israel
(Jeremiah 31:33[34] – "And no longer shall they teach, a man his neighbor, and a man his brother, saying, 'Know the L-rd', for they shall all know Me, from their smallest to their greatest," says the L-rd, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will no longer remember.") in 33-34 C.E? If so please show us the proof.

Then why did God say that He was going to make a New Covenant to the House of Israel and Judah?

Jeremiah 31:31 (Darby)
31 Behold, days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 

[Bazz1040]

they have to accept that. we all do, the price is paid for our sins but we have to accept it. if we dont we are still in sin. that is what the lord meant by us believing in him.

if i give you 10 ten bucks as a gift you must open your hand and take it.
if not i still have it. the same with your sins. if you dont give the lord your sins he cant remove them.we must ask the lord to remove our sins and live accordingly.

You have not answered my questions though.

 

[jasoncran]

i did , and i told you that we must act an acknowlege our sins.

the lord didnt say to us, oh and i forgive go and sin more and more now did he.

what did he say to the the woman caught in adultery? GO and SIN NO more. that means that we must stopp sinning.

that is the condition to salvation one must stop sinning. how does one do that. by asking the lord to change us and repenting when we do sin.

you are confusing this doctrine of personal relationships(forgiving others when they dont repent or do) with the salvational act of the lord.

we must confess our sins to the lord. that is why i posted romans 10:9 and 10. and added 11 for you.

i also should add that in galatians is says that whatsoever is sown shall we reap. if good then good if discord then discord. so we must pay for our sins even if the lord did as you say.

the paid the price indeed but we must let him cleanse us.

read 1 john 1;9

and what it says.

what does he do when we repent?

 

[Sissy]

Then why did God say that He was going to make a New Covenant to the House of Israel and Judah?

Jeremiah 31:31 (Darby)
31 Behold, days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Good point.

Also, the new covenant was not according to the old.

Hebrews 8
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
​

There would be no need for a new covenant if the old one was faultless.
There would be no need for a new Jerusalem if the old one was faultless.
There would be no need for us to be a new creature if the old one was faultless.

 

[jasoncran]

let me pick that apart and explain which promise that edwin is mentioning.

in genesis 15:9 to 21. which is covenant is that? the promise of land given to abraham and who passed through the heifer? the Lord. so the lord made the covenent with abraham, that means something here. abraham recieved the promise but didnt make as he never passed through that cow.

read it for your self. the law is another covenant.

isreal has the promised of land then the law and what the lord would do if they kept the law. the land wasnt affected by the law breaking permantely as you see i and others stated earlier that the lord states that land will be reinhabited.

so the lord call all of us spiritual temples when its described in ezekiel the new temple being built? i will have to look at that one more.

what about the temple that the lord mentions about the abomonation of desolation.

to the jews that heard that they surely took it as a literal temple when he said that as that was the case!

 

[Bazz1040]

i did , and i told you that we must act an acknowlege our sins.

the lord didnt say to us, oh and i forgive go and sin more and more now did he.

what did he say to the the woman caught in adultery? GO and SIN NO more. that means that we must stopp sinning.

that is the condition to salvation one must stop sinning. how does one do that. by asking the lord to change us and repenting when we do sin.

you are confusing this doctrine of personal relationships(forgiving others when they dont repent or do) with the salvational act of the lord.

we must confess our sins to the lord. that is why i posted romans 10:9 and 10. and added 11 for you.

i also should add that in galatians is says that whatsoever is sown shall we reap. if good then good if discord then discord. so we must pay for our sins even if the lord did as you say.

the paid the price indeed but we must let him cleanse us.

read 1 john 1;9

and what it says.

what does he do when we repent?

Didn't Jesus say He did not condemn her? So did she ask for forgiveness? Show me in the Bible where Jesus said that to be forgiven you must ask for forgiveness?

 

[Bazz1040]

Good point.

Also, the new covenant was not according to the old.

Hebrews 8
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
​

There would be no need for a new covenant if the old one was faultless.
There would be no need for a new Jerusalem if the old one was faultless.
There would be no need for us to be a new creature if the old one was faultless.

Correct..........

 

[edwin]

Then why did God say that He was going to make a New Covenant to the House of Israel and Judah?

Jeremiah 31:31 (Darby)
31 Behold, days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

I will be pleased to respond to your question, once you have addressed those questions I presented in my last post.

 

[jasoncran]

ok i will show this then why does it say that in luke 12:8 whomsover confess me before men shall i confess before god.

so then how does on confess the lord to you. since we dont need to anything? let me restate this. is a muslim. buddhist, or athiest already forgiven by the lord and on thier way to heaven?

 

[Bazz1040]

I will be pleased to respond to your question, once you have addressed those questions I presented in my last post.

That scripture was posted before you presented your questions; I just cut and paste a portion of it again because you ignored it to first time.

 

[Bazz1040]

ok i will show this then why does it say that in luke 12:8 whomsover confess me before men shall i confess before god.

so then how does on confess the lord to you. since we dont need to anything? let me restate this. is a muslim. buddhist, or athiest already forgiven by the lord and on thier way to heaven?

You are putting words in my mouth again.

 

[jasoncran]

no because you go there then when you say that we dont need to ask for forgiveness. so what to do have to do with the lord? you say nothing becuause he has already forgiven us. so then what of the athiest?

what does he or she have to do get to heaven according to you if he is already forgiven.

the bible isnt in agreement with you.

what does this mean to you? he that endureth to the end the same same shall be saved?

who is doing the enduring?

 

[edwin]

Good point.

Also, the new covenant was not according to the old.

Hebrews 8
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
​

There would be no need for a new covenant if the old one was faultless.
There would be no need for a new Jerusalem if the old one was faultless.
There would be no need for us to be a new creature if the old one was faultless.

Again I await a response to my previous post. I will add however there is little reason why I should heed the author of the Letter to the Hebrews who purposely mistranslates Jeremiah 31:31(32) by trying to reverse the prophet's original message. Heb 8:9 says "...because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not...". However the Hebrew text from Jeremiah actually says "...for they broke my covenant, although I WAS A HUSBAND (Heb. ba'alti) unto them." The prophet is metaphorically conveying the message of the compassion and love that God has for Israel-translating this as disregarding them is the antithesis of the true meaning of the passage!:

 

[Bazz1040]

no because you go there then when you say that we dont need to ask for forgiveness. so what to do have to do with the lord? you say nothing becuause he has already forgiven us. so then what of the athiest?

what does he or she have to do get to heaven according to you if he is already forgiven.

the bible isnt in agreement with you.

what does this mean to you? he that endureth to the end the same same shall be saved?

who is doing the enduring?

All are forgiven, but one can reject it. It is the same as a person that does something wrong and is going to pay the price for what he did. Then someone paid the fine or penalty in the person's place. The guilty person can either accept the fact that someone paid the penalty for him and walk a free man, or reject it and suffer. But the fact still remains that someone paid the penalty for him. He was forgiven but he refuses to be forgiven. All people have been forgiven but they don’t know that they have been, nor do they know that they have done something wrong that is worthy of death…..they are blind to their sins. When God opens their mind, then they will see, and then they will repent and accept God’s gift of forgiveness. But God did not sit around and wait for mankind to ask for God to send Jesus to die for their sins. God did it even though we never asked for it.

 

[jasoncran]

lol, i was trying to say that too you the whole time, by confessing our sins were saying to the lord that we are wrong and ask that we be forgiven. knowing that the lord did it on the cross.

many churches dont teach it that way, its just say this prayer and never teach what the walk is.

fortunalely i read my bible and learned from the ones that did teach that. i wanted to know what the lord said.

if i go to my wife and tell her i was wrong and even though she forgave me. she wont tell me that i was right but rather that i forgive. when we tell the lord our sins, we are saying to him. yes i am sinner and i need the blood to cover the sin

 

[Bazz1040]

lol, i was trying to say that too you the whole time, by confessing our sins were saying to the lord that we are wrong and ask that we be forgiven. knowing that the lord did it on the cross.

many churches dont teach it that way, its just say this prayer and never teach what the walk is.

fortunalely i read my bible and learned from the ones that did teach that. i wanted to know what the lord said.

if i go to my wife and tell her i was wrong and even though she forgave me. she wont tell me that i was right but rather that i forgive. when we tell the lord our sins, we are saying to him. yes i am sinner and i need the blood to cover the sin

It is good when the one that is forgiven acknowledge not only the wrong that they have done, but accept forgiveness as well. But, as I said before one does not have to ask for forgiveness before they are forgiven. God reached out to us before we had a mind that would reach back to Him.

 

[jasoncran]

its best that they do, as that shows them that they were a sinner and in need of a savior.

it also means that we agree with the lord when says that all have fallen short of the glory of the lord.

repent in greek is this metanoyoh which means to change ones mind, surely you agree with that.

that has to happen in order to get to heaven. we have to vomit that sin up.