The Lords Sabbaths and his Feasts, Holy Convocations/Leviticus 23:1; 1 Corinthians 5:8

[Karl]

Hi Karl, what I don't understand is where you are getting the understanding of 6 pm? It is my understanding that the time is determine by sunset, from sunset to sunset. As the seasons change that time changes as well.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Jewish-Day.htm

Yes you are correct, the Synagog and Adventists here use 6:00 PM and that was what I was going by, but that doesn't change the fact that the weeks are 7.37 minutes longer since Joshua's longest day, the setting of the sun during the different seasons just complicates things even more, don't you agree?

I'm so glad I don't have to worry about that, in fact I'm free to worship my Lord everyday of the week instead of just one and He's always ready, ...no matter what time or day it is.

 

[Deborah13]

Yes you are correct, the Synagog and Adventists here use 6:00 PM and that was what I was going by, but that doesn't change the fact that the weeks are 7.37 minutes longer since Joshua's longest day, the setting of the sun during the different seasons just complicates things even more, don't you agree?

I'm so glad I don't have to worry about that, in fact I'm free to worship my Lord everyday of the week instead of just one and He's always ready, ...no matter what time or day it is.

The calendar is set by the lunar cycles so it shouldn't be a problem, I don't think? The 10th day of that lunar cycle would be the 10th day.
Joshua's day was just a long day. When God defined 1 day, He said morning and evening equaled one day or light and darkness. He didn't specify how many hours one day is. So if there was a longer day I would think it would be counted as one day, no matter how many hours there were in that day and then at sunset there began the next day.
Am I missing something? Sometimes I can be dense. :neutral

 

[Karl]

Really?

5 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 41 seconds were added?

WOW!!

When was this added?

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

How is: about a whole day, suddenly 5 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds ?

From 7.73 minutes?

Must be new math.


JLB

May I suggest a book, Worlds in Collision, I forgotten the author, been a long time since I read it, but it's been historically proven that Mars entered into the Earth's orbit, once every so many years, sometimes ahead of the Earth and sometimes behind the Earth, the last time was Joshua's longest day, what happened is it's gravitational force pulled the Earth farther out from the Sun, the Earth was still rotating at it's same speed, but because it was being slowly pulled away from the Sun it appeared to be standing still (this was a favorite demonstration in science class). We can do the math, it's simple circle circumference, to determine how far the Earth moved, but it wasn't much, just enough to change the length of a year 5 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 41 seconds.

It's really interesting to study, they have found planets leave trails in space, like boats traveling through water and it's called resonance, they have duplicated the orbits of both Mars and the Earth with computers using the resonance trails they have left behind back to Joshua's longest day and beyond, ...also Mars was the principle God of all of the Earth up until that time, they have found archeological evidence of this, ...they have written records of it being the longest night in the lands that were going through night time, ...they have records explaining why Rome and other major cities were built way upstream (check it out on a map) from the ocean because of the high tides the Mars pass by caused, ...there's lots more, like I said, it's very interesting if you like that kind of stuff, but most important is history and archeology both authenticate the Bible and that just sends shudders up my spine every time I read or learn of these discoveries, because, ...........that's my Papa!

 

[Karl]

The calendar is set by the lunar cycles so it shouldn't be a problem, I don't think? The 10th day of that lunar cycle would be the 10th day.
Joshua's day was just a long day. When God defined 1 day, He said morning and evening equaled one day or light and darkness. He didn't specify how many hours one day is. So if there was a longer day I would think it would be counted as one day, no matter how many hours there were in that day and then at sunset there began the next day.
Am I missing something? Sometimes I can be dense. :neutral

What I have read is the original year was twelve months of thirty days, 12x30=360 (I have also read the calculations of days during the Flood proved the year was 360 days), then God told Moses to change which month was to be considered the first month Ex 12:2 for the Children of Israel, whether it was a solar or lunar year that worked until the years became longer, because every month had thirty days, but now every month is about thirty minutes longer which means, starting at Joshua's longest day using our months, the month of February (using a 360 day year) actually starts on January 30th at about 11:30 PM, that is why the months in our calendar are of different duration so that we only have to add one day every four years, but I think the Jewish calendar has to add one month. this I'm not certain about, I need to do some research on it.

So, the Earth's orbit has gained 5+ days, but the Moon's orbit hasn't, it is still orbiting the Earth at it's original speed at it's time of creation, that explains why Easter, a Lunar based holiday fluctuates so much.

Does that help, or am I the dense one? LOL


(No such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher that can't reach the student to help them understand)

 

[JLB]

May I suggest a book, Worlds in Collision, I forgotten the author, been a long time since I read it, but it's been historically proven that Mars entered into the Earth's orbit, once every so many years, sometimes ahead of the Earth and sometimes behind the Earth, the last time was Joshua's longest day, what happened is it's gravitational force pulled the Earth farther out from the Sun, the Earth was still rotating at it's same speed, but because it was being slowly pulled away from the Sun it appeared to be standing still (this was a favorite demonstration in science class). We can do the math, it's simple circle circumference, to determine how far the Earth moved, but it wasn't much, just enough to change the length of a year 5 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 41 seconds.

It's really interesting to study, they have found planets leave trails in space, like boats traveling through water and it's called resonance, they have duplicated the orbits of both Mars and the Earth with computers using the resonance trails they have left behind back to Joshua's longest day and beyond, ...also Mars was the principle God of all of the Earth up until that time, they have found archeological evidence of this, ...they have written records of it being the longest night in the lands that were going through night time, ...they have records explaining why Rome and other major cities were built way upstream (check it out on a map) from the ocean because of the high tides the Mars pass by caused, ...there's lots more, like I said, it's very interesting if you like that kind of stuff, but most important is history and archeology both authenticate the Bible and that just sends shudders up my spine every time I read or learn of these discoveries, because, ...........that's my Papa!

I guess this means I'm not going to get a scripture for this 5 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 41 seconds that is really 7.37 minute phenomenon?

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The calendar is set by the lunar cycles so it shouldn't be a problem, I don't think? The 10th day of that lunar cycle would be the 10th day.
Joshua's day was just a long day. When God defined 1 day, He said morning and evening equaled one day or light and darkness. He didn't specify how many hours one day is. So if there was a longer day I would think it would be counted as one day, no matter how many hours there were in that day and then at sunset there began the next day.
Am I missing something? Sometimes I can be dense. :neutral

 

[Deborah13]

What I have read is the original year was twelve months of thirty days, 12x30=360 (I have also read the calculations of days during the Flood proved the year was 360 days), then God told Moses to change which month was to be considered the first month Ex 12:2 for the Children of Israel, whether it was a solar or lunar year that worked until the years became longer, because every month had thirty days, but now every month is about thirty minutes longer which means, starting at Joshua's longest day using our months, the month of February (using a 360 day year) actually starts on January 30th at about 11:30 PM, that is why the months in our calendar are of different duration so that we only have to add one day every four years, but I think the Jewish calendar has to add one month. this I'm not certain about, I need to do some research on it.

So, the Earth's orbit has gained 5+ days, but the Moon's orbit hasn't, it is still orbiting the Earth at it's original speed at it's time of creation, that explains why Easter, a Lunar based holiday fluctuates so much.

Does that help, or am I the dense one? LOL


(No such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher that can't reach the student to help them understand)

No I think you explained the science quite well. I understood it better than when I was in school probably.
The only thing is, is that I don't see how that effects what day Shabbat would fall on.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Really?

I said it was a sin to keep the law?

If you don't think it's a sin to keep the law then we have no argument with each other.

The Holy Spirit does not led us to keep the law of Moses.

I think what you mean is the Holy Spirit does not lead YOU to keep the law. We are already in agreement that Paul is an example of the Holy Spirit leading a person to keep the law.

 

[JLB]

If you don't think it's a sin to keep the law then we have no argument with each other.


I think what you mean is the Holy Spirit does not lead YOU to keep the law. We are already in agreement that Paul is an example of the Holy Spirit leading a person to keep the law.

Sorry Brother, as much as I want to find common ground with in this area of doctrine, we are not in agreement about the Holy Spirit leading Paul to keep the law of Moses.

For the third time now, Paul "became" as one under the law, just as he "became" as a Gentile to the Gentiles.

Does that mean Paul was Gentile?

Paul "appeared" or related to those under the law, so they would listen to him, explain the Gospel.

The Holy Spirit led Paul to preach the Gospel and start churches, not keep the law of Moses.

If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law.

To keep the law of Moses, or being Torah Observant, one has to do all of the law of Moses and continue.

Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them. Galatians 3:10

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sorry Brother...we are not in agreement about the Holy Spirit leading Paul to keep the law of Moses.

Oh.

So what do I do with this, then?

Paul, being led by the Spirit to do these things was for the purpose of setting free those who were under the law, that they might receive the adoption as sons... that they would be delivered from the law.

 

[JLB]

Oh.

So what do I do with this, then?

Place it in the category of Paul preaching the Gospel to those who were under the law.

He wanted to see his countrymen free from the law, redeemed, delivered from the law so that... that might receive adoption as sons.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Oh.

So what do I do with this, then?

If you could, please post some scriptures of these "Observant" Gentiles from the scriptures.


JLB

 

[Karl]

I guess this means I'm not going to get a scripture for this 5 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 41 seconds that is really 7.37 minute phenomenon?

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.


JLB

Bro, I gave you the Scripture Jos 10:12-14, and I have tried to explain, in my recent posts, the historical, astronomical, archeological and scientific facts, that coincide with Scripture that verify what happened that day, ...what more can I say?

Unless I'm not understanding your question?

 

[JLB]

Bro, I gave you the Scripture Jos 10:12-14, and I have tried to explain, in my recent posts, the historical, astronomical, archeological and scientific facts, that coincide with Scripture that verify what happened that day, ...what more can I say?

Unless I'm not understanding your question?

I'm sorry brother for not being more clear with my question.

 

[Karl]

No I think you explained the science quite well. I understood it better than when I was in school probably.
The only thing is, is that I don't see how that effects what day Shabbat would fall on.

What day the Sabbath, or any other of the feasts or festivals is precise, because God said do it on that day, kinda like if we have a rendezvous with the doctor we don't show up a day late, ...so what I'm seeing is I need to give an example of how precise God is to maybe help you understand it better.

The fish with the coin in it's mouth was precisely how much Peter needed to pay for himself and the Lord.

Concerning the 70 week prophecy in Dan 9 and the Messiah presenting Himself precisely on the last day of the 69th week,

The prophecy is divided into seven weeks, sixty two weeks and one week, 7+62+1=70

Seven weeks plus sixty two weeks is sixty-nine weeks, the Jews count in seven like we count in tens (decades), one week speaks of seven years, seven years of 360 days,

7 weeks + 62 weeks= 69 weeks
69 weeks of 7 years= 483 years
483 years x 360 days per year = 173880 days

The prophecy gives a starting date, the rebuilding of Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity, and the Bible Neh 2:8 and history records for us that Artaxerxes I “Longimanus” gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC which started the prophetic clock ticking of the 173880 day prophecy and ended with the Triumphal Entry of the King of Israel riding on a donkey on April 6, 32 AD.

445 BC - 32 AD: 173,740
March 14 - April 6: 24
Leap Years: 116
173,880

I think we could call that precision and notice, very important, God was counting the years as 360 day years during the period of the New Testament.

One more to bore you, but I love this kind of stuff, the value of pi,

We think of pi as 3.1416, but it's actually 3.14159265359, however in
1Ki 7:23 we are given the dimensions of the bronze laver (corrected to English)

Hiram made a pool from cast metal. It was 15 feet in diameter. It was round, 7 1/2 feet high, and had a circumference of 45 feet.

Wait a minute π x D = C and C / D = π, ...45 / 15 = 3, that's not the value of pi, the value of π is,

3.1416 x 15 feet = 47.124 feet
and more accurate,
3.14159265359 x 15 feet = 47.12388980385 feet
either way it's not 45 feet!

However in the Hebrew text of 1 Kings 7:23 it specifies what is the value of π and it very precise and when used to multiply the diameter it is much more precise, more than π we commonly use today, and we have to take note this was before the Greeks introduced π to the world, ...IMHO God is very precise in His numbers, if not then were there actually 7 days of Creation, or really 10 Commandments or any of the other numerous times He used numbers in the Word are they accurate and precise?

Personally, I think what it all comes down to is, ...if we were able to be as precise as God in our world we would turn His things into idols, just like the Bronze Serpent was back then and Sabbath worship has become to some today.

Sorry if I bored you.

Many blessings

 

[ezrider]

You guys are working real hard to get this thread closed down too!

From the OP

What festivals did the early apostolic church observe?

The early church was not required to keep these festivals, though I do think early on that some the apostles thought that way as well, being that they were raised under the Law. But as Paul teaches, to be all things to all people for the sake of the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:19-24 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

If you could, please post some scriptures of these "Observant" Gentiles from the scriptures.

Acts 21:26-29 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

 

[JLB]

The early church was not required to keep these festivals, though I do think early on that some the apostles thought that way as well, being that they were raised under the Law. But as Paul teaches, to be all things to all people for the sake of the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:19-24 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.



Acts 21:26-29 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them. 27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.) Acts 21:25-29

 

[JLB]

The prophecy gives a starting date, the rebuilding of Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity, and the Bible Neh 2:8 and history records for us that Artaxerxes I “Longimanus” gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC which started the prophetic clock ticking of the 173880 day prophecy and ended with the Triumphal Entry of the King of Israel riding on a donkey on April 6, 32 AD.

There is no such scripture that says the week's are 7.37 minutes longer because of Joshua's longest day.

There is no scripture that says anything about March 14, 445 BC.

JLB

 

[chessman]

In your opinion, does "The Law" Paul spoke of in Gal 4:4-5 include: Exodus 20:9 (LEB) Six days you will work, and you will do all your work? I say yes. What say you?

Yes, if you are calling Exodus 20:9 the law of Moses.
JLB

Thanks. I agree. In fact, it’s fairly obvious to me that Paul has the ‘six days you will work’ specifically in mind in Gal 4:4-5 as he specifically says “works” of The Law just prior:

Gal 3:2-3 (LEB) Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish?​

But here's why I asked you the question that I did. It's in support of my belief/argument that Paul (et. al. Christians) are literally observing the Lord's Sabbath Rest right now. Which you evidently disagreed with.

Technically I believe Paul is (an others also) now, quite literally, this very day (Tuesday, the 2nd day of the week, 27th day of the month), celebrating the Lord’s Sabbath Rest:

The Sabbath Rest is when the Lord returns, and we are Resurrected from the dead

If we look at what Paul says in Gal 3-4 about “The Law” (in light of Ex 20:9, working six days per week, as the law he means) then I make the following observations:

Saul, prior to becoming a believer (Paul), was once detained (imprisoned) under The Law (as sinners starting with Adam are subject to it).

So, if you recognize that Paul means he was [Past Tense] detained by ‘working six days per week’, imprisoned by ‘woking six days per week’ UNTIL the coming faith was reveled, then basically Paul moved on past ‘working six days per week’ once the faith was revealed. (i.e. He’s observing the Sabbath Rest, since he (and we also) since we are no longer detained/imprisoned by ‘working six days per week’.
I mean, in a very clear sense, Gal 3:23 is telling us:

Galatians 3:23 (LEB) But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.

​

But before faith came, we were detained under Ex 20:9, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.
But before faith came, we were detained under ‘working six days per week’, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.

And boy hasn't it been revealed! The only logical conclusion is that seven comes after six.

Also it's relevant how Saul was released from his previous detainment, and imprisonment and came to be renamed Paul:

Gal 3:2-3 (LEB) Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish?​

Anyway, that was my point and justification for saying that Paul (and myself, since I've "heard the faith') is observing the Lord’s Sabbath Rest this very day.

 

[JLB]

Thanks. I agree. In fact, it’s fairly obvious to me that Paul has the ‘six days you will work’ specifically in mind in Gal 4:4-5 as he specifically says “works” of The Law just prior:

Gal 3:2-3 (LEB) Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish?​

But here's why I asked you the question that I did. It's in support of my belief/argument that Paul (et. al. Christians) are literally observing the Lord's Sabbath Rest right now. Which you evidently disagreed with.

​

If we look at what Paul says in Gal 3-4 about “The Law” (in light of Ex 20:9, working six days per week, as the law he means) then I make the following observations:

Saul, prior to becoming a believer (Paul), was once detained (imprisoned) under The Law (as sinners starting with Adam are subject to it).

So, if you recognize that Paul means he was [Past Tense] detained by ‘working six days per week’, imprisoned by ‘woking six days per week’ UNTIL the coming faith was reveled, then basically Paul moved on past ‘working six days per week’ once the faith was revealed. (i.e. He’s observing the Sabbath Rest, since he (and we also) since we are no longer detained/imprisoned by ‘working six days per week’.
I mean, in a very clear sense, Gal 3:23 is telling us:

Galatians 3:23 (LEB) But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.

​

But before faith came, we were detained under Ex 20:9, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.
But before faith came, we were detained under ‘working six days per week’, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.

And boy hasn't it been revealed! The only logical conclusion is that seven comes after six.

Also it's relevant how Saul was released from his previous detainment, and imprisonment and came to be renamed Paul:

Gal 3:2-3 (LEB) Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish?​

Anyway, that was my point and justification for saying that Paul (and myself, since I've "heard the faith') is observing the Lord’s Sabbath Rest this very day.

i.e. He’s observing the Sabbath Rest, since he (and we also) since we are no longer detained/imprisoned by ‘working six days per week’.
I mean, in a very clear sense, Gal 3:23 is telling us:

Paul wasn't put in prison for working six days a week.

And we also

The "we" in this verse is referring to natural Jews who were under the law.

"We" Gentiles were never under the law.


JLB