The Lords Sabbaths and his Feasts, Holy Convocations/Leviticus 23:1; 1 Corinthians 5:8

[JLB]

So, if you recognize that Paul means he was [Past Tense] detained by ‘working six days per week’, imprisoned by ‘woking six days per week’ UNTIL the coming faith was reveled, then basically Paul moved on past ‘working six days per week’ once the faith was revealed. (i.e. He’s observing the Sabbath Rest, since he (and we also) since we are no longer detained/imprisoned by ‘working six days per week’.
I mean, in a very clear sense, Gal 3:23 is telling us:

Galatians 3:23 (LEB) But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.

​

But before faith came, we were detained under Ex 20:9, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.
But before faith came, we were detained under ‘working six days per week’, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed.

But before faith came , we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed .
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us untoChrist, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come , we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Galatians 3:23-25

The law of Moses kept the children of Israel "guarded" against transgressing God's (Abrahamic) Covenant Law as a fence guards against transgressing the boundries of a property.

What purpose then does the law serve?....It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; Galatians 3:19

Like a fence is "added" to guard against the transgression of property boundries, the law was added to protect the natural offspring of Abraham from transgressing the boundaries of of the Abrahamic Covenant, SO THAT...
God could continue to bless them with the blessing of Abraham, which included God's protection from their enemies.

God couldn't bless Covenant Breakers (transgressors) and without His blessing upon the children of Israel they couldn't defeat the Giants and fulfill God's promise to Abraham to give his decendants the "Promised Land".

No Blessing, No Ability to drive out the Giants from the land God promised to give Abraham's decendants!!!


JLB

 

[ezrider]

You originally made this request,

If you could, please post some scriptures of these "Observant" Gentiles from the scriptures.

Then I replied by posting Acts 21:26-29 as a scriptural example of Gentiles who were observing the days of purification.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them. 27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.) Acts 21:25-29

So now you simple quote the same scripture back to me as if you think you are saying something yourself, but you haven't even acknowledged with your own words whether this satisfies your demand of a scripture showing an example of the "Observant" Gentile as you called him. So do you accept the example I have posted, or have you added Acts 21:25 in your response and then made it bold as if you were attempting to dispute or reject the scriptural evidence that I presented.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

 

[JLB]

You originally made this request,


Then I replied by posting Acts 21:26-29 as a scriptural example of Gentiles who were observing the days of purification.


So now you simple quote the same scripture back to me as if you think you are saying something yourself, but you haven't even acknowledged with your own words whether this satisfies your demand of a scripture showing an example of the "Observant" Gentile as you called him. So do you accept the example I have posted, or have you added Acts 21:25 in your response and then made it bold as if you were attempting to dispute or reject the scriptural evidence that I presented.

So what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

The point I am making is there were no Gentiles that were being "observant" in this account of Acts 21.

Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality." Acts 21:23-25


The four men that were from the group with James were Jews.

As verse 25 clearly says - But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing,

No Torah observant Gentiles are mentioned in this account.

As you insinuated in your previous post that Paul brought Gentiles into the Temple, which the scripture does not say that. It says some troublemakers tried to stir up the crowds by saying that about Paul.


Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place."
29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

They just saw Gentiles with Paul in the city, not the Temple.


No Gentiles were keeping the law of Moses.

 

[ezrider]

The point I am making is there were no Gentiles that were being "observant" in this account of Acts 21.

Its pretty clear to me that the scriptures in Acts 21 show that even though the gentiles were not required to observe the feasts, there were some present in the temple observation the days of purification. They were a witness against the Jews.

No Torah observant Gentiles are mentioned in this account.

Why do they have to be "Torah" observant Gentiles. You are adding in your own qualifications here, when all that is said is they observed the days of purification.

They just saw Gentiles with Paul in the city, not the Temple.

Acts 21:28 clearly states that the Greeks were in the temple. The Jews assumed Paul had brought them in because they thought they saw him in the city with them.

No Gentiles were keeping the law of Moses.

Nobody said they were keeping the law, and it was agreed that that requirement was not put upon them. So why do you continually force the premise that "keeping" the law is somehow the same as simply "observing" it.

 

[JLB]

Its pretty clear to me that the scriptures in Acts 21 show that even though the gentiles were not required to observe the feasts, there were some present in the temple observation the days of purification. They were a witness against the Jews.

There are no Gentiles that were Observing or Keeping the law of Moses mentioned in Acts 21.

They were Jews that were taking a vow from the group with James.

As the scripture clearly teaches about the mindset of the group with James about this very thing, please read what this scripture says in Acts 21 -

But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, Acts 21:25

Observe no such thing.

That should be sufficient for anyone who truly desires to know the truth about Gentiles being "observant".

... they should observe no such thing,

Acts 21:28 clearly states that the Greeks were in the temple. The Jews assumed Paul had brought them in because they thought they saw him in the city with them.

Clearly Greeks were NOT in the temple, as the scripture sates -

crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple. Acts 21:29


No Gentiles were Observant to keep the law of Moses in Acts 21.

No Gentiles were in the Temple in Acts 21.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

There are no Gentiles that were Observing or Keeping the law of Moses mentioned in Acts 21.

They were Jews that were taking a vow from the group with James.

As the scripture clearly teaches about the mindset of the group with James about this very thing, please read what this scripture says in Acts 21 -

But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, Acts 21:25

Observe no such thing.

That should be sufficient for anyone who truly desires to know the truth about Gentiles being "observant".

... they should observe no such thing,





Clearly Greeks were NOT in the temple, as the scripture sates -

crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple. Acts 21:29


No Gentiles were Observant to keep the law of Moses in Acts 21.

No Gentiles were in the Temple in Acts 21.


JLB

(Edited, ToS 2.4, Rudness, unwelcome spiritual advice. Obadiah)

Why does the scripture say the Jews accused Paul of bringing Greeks, who are by definition Gentiles, into the temple and defiling the holy place if no Greeks (Gentiles) were seen in the temple?

(Edited, ToS 2.4, Rudness. ToS 2.6, threads are the property of CF.NET and members may not dictate how other members may respond. Obadiah)

 

[JLB]

Why does the scripture say the Jews accused Paul of bringing Greeks, who are by definition Gentiles, into the temple and defiling the holy place if no Greeks (Gentiles) were seen in the temple?

They were stirring up the people against Paul, because of the Gospel, falsely accusing Him, as the next verse 29, tells us the truth.

They never saw any Gentiles in the Temple, they saw them in the city and ASSUMED or SUPPOSED that Paul brought them into the temple.

...whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.

v 29.(For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29 (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.) Acts 21:27-29


JLB

 

[Karl]

There is no such scripture that says the week's are 7.37 minutes longer because of Joshua's longest day.

There is no scripture that says anything about March 14, 445 BC.

JLB

No, there aren't any Scriptures that say that per se, but there are historical documents, astrological documents, archeological findings and scientific facts that verify the Scriptures.

So, how do you account for or explain the Earth's years changing from 360 days to 365 1/4 days?

As for March 14, 445 BC it's prophecy fulfilled and we have the Scriptural and archeological evidence that verify it, are you saying you don't believe in fulfilled Biblical prophecy?

 

[JLB]

No, there aren't any Scriptures that say that per se, but there are historical documents, astrological documents, archeological findings and scientific facts that verify the Scriptures.

So, how do you account for or explain the Earth's years changing from 360 days to 365 1/4 days?

As for March 14, 445 BC it's prophecy fulfilled and we have the Scriptural and archeological evidence that verify it, are you saying you don't believe in fulfilled Biblical prophecy?

If the bible uses a 360 day year, why do you rely on secular information that is based on a 365.4 day year?

By the way, it was Cyrus that gave the command that started the prophetic clock in Daniel.

JLB

 

[Karl]

If the bible uses a 360 day year, why do you rely on secular information that is based on a 365.4 day year?

By the way, it was Cyrus that gave the command that started the prophetic clock in Daniel.

JLB

Yep, the Bible uses a 360 day years, but in our real time a year is 365 1/4 days, ...we can't deny that, so, the point is we have lost track over the centuries as to when the Sabbath starts, that means we can't keep them accurately which translates out to maybe those that judge others and say we have to keep the Sabbath tonight at sunset might actually have missed the 360 day year Sabbath that could of started Tuesday at 9:13AM, .......which means the traveled more that a Sabbath's day journey on the true Sabbath, and when they turned the light on in the morning they were also guilty of kindling a fire, ...just saying.


This is what I read in my Bible,

Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Ezr 1:2

I think we can agree that is talking about the Temple and even though Cyrus returned the objects taken from the Temple and also gave incentives to return, only about 50,000 Jews returned under the leadership of Zerubbabel in 538BC.

But in Daniel it says,

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Dan 9:25

The prophetic clocks starts with the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem, ....not the Temple.

And we find in Neh 2:1 it states,

And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine, and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence.

And said unto the king, Let the king live for ever: why should not my countenance be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire? Ezr 2:3

...And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.Ezr 2:8

We have Scriptural,historical and archeological evidence that Artaxerxes signed the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC which is 93 years after the decree of Cyrus and thus the exact date the prophetic clock started for the 69 weeks in Daniel's prophecy, ...if, if the prophetic clock started with the decree of Cyrus, then the Messiah entered Jerusalem 60 years before Jesus was born, ...something wrong with that.

 

[JLB]

Yep, the Bible uses a 360 day years, but in our real time a year is 365 1/4 days, ...we can't deny that, so, the point is we have lost track over the centuries as to when the Sabbath starts, that means we can't keep them accurately which translates out to maybe those that judge others and say we have to keep the Sabbath tonight at sunset might actually have missed the 360 day year Sabbath that could of started Tuesday at 9:13AM, .......which means the traveled more that a Sabbath's day journey on the true Sabbath, and when they turned the light on in the morning they were also guilty of kindling a fire, ...just saying.


This is what I read in my Bible,

Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Ezr 1:2

I think we can agree that is talking about the Temple and even though Cyrus returned the objects taken from the Temple and also gave incentives to return, only about 50,000 Jews returned under the leadership of Zerubbabel in 538BC.

But in Daniel it says,

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Dan 9:25

The prophetic clocks starts with the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem, ....not the Temple.

And we find in Neh 2:1 it states,

And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine, and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence.

And said unto the king, Let the king live for ever: why should not my countenance be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire? Ezr 2:3

...And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.Ezr 2:8

We have Scriptural,historical and archeological evidence that Artaxerxes signed the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC which is 93 years after the decree of Cyrus and thus the exact date the prophetic clock started for the 69 weeks in Daniel's prophecy, ...if, if the prophetic clock started with the decree of Cyrus, then the Messiah entered Jerusalem 60 years before Jesus was born, ...something wrong with that.

I think it's time to take our discussion to PM, unless I get permission from WalterandDebbie to continue with this line of discussion.

I will PM them.


Thanks JLB

 

[Karl]

I really don't understand why we need permission to discuss the Sabbaths and feasts, isn't that what this thread about?

All I have done is asked the question of, how do we know what day we should celebrate them, ...God gave specific instructions, even changed their calendar, that they were to be celebrated on a specific day didn't He?

 

[JLB]

I really don't understand why we need permission to discuss the Sabbaths and feasts, isn't that what this thread about?

All I have done is asked the question of, how do we know what day we should celebrate them, ...God gave specific instructions, even changed their calendar, that they were to be celebrated on a specific day didn't He?

Yes discuss the Sabbath and the feasts, however our discussion took a turn towards Daniel's 70 weeks.

I sent you a PM.


Thanks JLB

 

[Karl]

Yes discuss the Sabbath and the feasts, however our discussion took a turn towards Daniel's 70 weeks.

I sent you a PM.


Thanks JLB

Ummmm, the 70 weeks prophecy is the backbone of Biblical Prophecy, but the one reason I mentioned it was to verify God is still on a 360 day year calendar today Jan 30, 2015 and since it was God who instituted the Sabbath and the feasts, they must be celebrated on the day God said, ........which is impossible today because we don't know what month or day it is in a 360 day year, ...that's all.

I'm not one to beat a dead horse ......the point has been made several times.

 

[Obadiah]

I agree, the discussion of Daniel's 70 weeks is straying a long ways from the original post. Your point about not knowing the days of the sabbath and feasts has been made. Lets get back to the topic.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

All this talk about the law of Moses and the Sabbath.
Here is what I have come to understand...
We Have been redeemed from the curse of the law. (Thank God)
We have a brand new and better covenant with God (Thank God)
That old law was destroyed and it was for unbelievers to see how bad or wrong they were. (again Thank God )

So in all this I have come to truly believe that God is Pleased when we set a day apart for Him.
This day is not a law or a must do in the way I do thing. I know of others who have found this in thier life as well and through prayer set sunday as the day they set aside for God and honor Him and praise Him and fellowship with Him and take comunion over thier tithe.

The Sunday is church day thing I believe is just another worldy thing such as dec 25 christmas and for the most part people did not really work on sundays as the side walks were rolled up.
Any way that is the way I see it.
P.S I am not saying anything against going to church on sunday....
Jim

(A&T Guidelines state "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding. Obadiah)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you could, please post some scriptures of these "Observant" Gentiles from the scriptures.

Wait a minute. You did not explain how you can say, "Paul, being led by the Spirit to do these things", but then turn right around and say, "The Holy Spirit does not led us to keep the law of Moses." That's what we were talking about.

Which one were you in error about? Because they both can't be true. Kindly explain.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We Have been redeemed from the curse of the law.

Do you know what that means?

In your understanding, does that mean a Christian can't be observant if they want to be?

That old law was destroyed...

But I'm sure Jesus said he did not come to do that. Explain what you mean by 'destroyed'.

 

[JLB]

Wait a minute. You did not explain how you can say, "Paul, being led by the Spirit to do these things", but then turn right around and say, "The Holy Spirit does not led us to keep the law of Moses." That's what we were talking about.

Which one were you in error about? Because they both can't be true. Kindly explain.

I have explained it 3 times now, and I will continue to explain it.

Paul "became" as under the law to those under the law, that he may win them to Christ.

19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 1 Corinthians 9:19-20

The Holy Spirit led Paul, to win people to Christ.
The Holy Spirit does not lead us to keep the law of Moses.

Christ came to deliver those who were under the law, from the law.

4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:4-5

The NLT says it this way -

4 But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. 5 God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children. Galatians 4:4-5 New Living Translation


During the course of preaching or teaching the gospel to those under the law, Paul first needed them to listen and to relate the truths of God's Kingdom from the Old Testament scriptures.

He did this buy going to the synagogues and teaching from the law, to show them Christ from the old testament.

If they had suspected his real motive they would have never let him speak in the synagogue.

Sometimes this ploy got him beaten or stoned, sometimes he won these to Christ.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Holy Spirit led Paul, to win people to Christ.
The Holy Spirit does not lead us to keep the law of Moses.

Still very contradictory, but it's clear by what you believe here that you should be saying we need to leave people alone who are being observant and not judge them because the Holy Spirit may be at work in them to do that.