Bible Study The New Covenant

[Mungo]

Quantrill
You asked "If the Covenant is not between the Father and the Son, who is it with?"

I think the answer is that it not "with" anyone. You may think that is wrong but let's follow what scripture says.

In Isaiah, God speaks about the coming Messiah in several "Servant" passages
Is 42:6-7 I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. This is very similar to what Jesus says about himself in Lk 4:18 (RSV)

Is 49:8 I have kept you and given you as a covenant to the people, (RSV)

Both of these say "I have given you as a covenant to the people". Not, I have made a covenant with you.

The implications are that Jesus is a living embodiment of the Covenant. You may think that is odd because covenants are normally between two parties. But as you yourself said "A covenant with God, and that is what we are talking about, is what God wants it to be."

The Messiah then is given as a living Covenant to the people, an embodiment of the covenant. And note he is to be a "light to the nations". He is not just for the Jews.

In practice the requirements for being in the covenant are as you stated. We must be "in Christ"," a phrase Paul used often. If we are "in Christ" we are in the covenant because the covenant is Christ.

If we stop being "in Christ" we stop being in the covenant

Now, what about Heb 8:8 and Jer 31:31
Hebrews quotes Jeremiah who prophesied a New Covenant (Jer 31:31)

Heb 8:8 (RSV)
The days will come, says the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah

Some say this New Covenant was only made with the Jews (the house of Israel and the house of Judah) and not for gentiles. Others say that the Church is the new Israel and therefore includes gentiles.

However there is another way of understanding this that avoids these arguments.
Note that both of these quotes refer to the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah.

What, or who, is the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
I think the answer is the king.
In 2Sam 12:8 the Lord (via Nathan) says to David "I..... gave you the house of Israel and of Judah..." (RSV)
The king represents in himself the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Another example of the king personifying the whole house is given in Isaiah 7:13 where Isaiah calls king Ahaz the "house of David".

Now who became the King?
Who was promised the throne of David?
Answer: Jesus:
"He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33, RSV).

 

[Mungo]

I don't see Adam in (Hosea 6:7). The covenant spoken of is the Mosaic.

Quantrill

"Adam" in Hosea 6:7 doesn't mean Adam?

 

[Quantrill]

Quantrill
You asked "If the Covenant is not between the Father and the Son, who is it with?"

I think the answer is that it not "with" anyone. You may think that is wrong but let's follow what scripture says.

In Isaiah, God speaks about the coming Messiah in several "Servant" passages
Is 42:6-7 I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. This is very similar to what Jesus says about himself in Lk 4:18 (RSV)

Is 49:8 I have kept you and given you as a covenant to the people, (RSV)

Both of these say "I have given you as a covenant to the people". Not, I have made a covenant with you.

The implications are that Jesus is a living embodiment of the Covenant. You may think that is odd because covenants are normally between two parties. But as you yourself said "A covenant with God, and that is what we are talking about, is what God wants it to be."

The Messiah then is given as a living Covenant to the people, an embodiment of the covenant. And note he is to be a "light to the nations". He is not just for the Jews.

In practice the requirements for being in the covenant are as you stated. We must be "in Christ"," a phrase Paul used often. If we are "in Christ" we are in the covenant because the covenant is Christ.

If we stop being "in Christ" we stop being in the covenant

Now, what about Heb 8:8 and Jer 31:31
Hebrews quotes Jeremiah who prophesied a New Covenant (Jer 31:31)

Heb 8:8 (RSV)
The days will come, says the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah

Some say this New Covenant was only made with the Jews (the house of Israel and the house of Judah) and not for gentiles. Others say that the Church is the new Israel and therefore includes gentiles.

However there is another way of understanding this that avoids these arguments.
Note that both of these quotes refer to the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah.

What, or who, is the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
I think the answer is the king.
In 2Sam 12:8 the Lord (via Nathan) says to David "I..... gave you the house of Israel and of Judah..." (RSV)
The king represents in himself the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Another example of the king personifying the whole house is given in Isaiah 7:13 where Isaiah calls king Ahaz the "house of David".

Now who became the King?
Who was promised the throne of David?
Answer: Jesus:
"He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33, RSV).

See? You don't know who the New Covenant is with. Yet you demand of me Scripture showing it is with Christ. Which I gave.

The New Covenant is with someone. So, go back and try and figure it out. Get back when you have an answer.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

"Adam" in Hosea 6:7 doesn't mean Adam?

As I said, I don't see Adam in (Hosea 6:7). The covenant mentioned is the Mosaic Covenant.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

God's Covenant Promises

With Noah to save him and his family, Genesis 6:18

With Noah and his descendants to never again destroy the world by flood. (Genesis 9:9-17)

With Abram to give him and his descendants the land we call Israel today and to destroy the inhabitants of that land because of their great sins (Genesis 15:18-21)

God's follow-up with Abram, changing his name to Abraham, and designating him the father of many nations and millions of descendants, and adding the covenant of circumcision, and promising him Isaac as a son and the inheritor of it (Genesis chapter 17). God made His with Abraham unconditional. (Genesis 22:12-18)

God's conditional one with the children of Israel, requiring their keeping God's law and circumcision, in return for physical blessings (Exodus 19-4). Further terms (conditions) of this covenant were expounded later (Leviticus chapters 25-27; Deuteronomy chapters 29- 31).

With the children of Israel concerning the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:14-18)

God's concerning the Ten Commandments and Holy Days designated by God. (Exodus 34:10 - 35)

God's concerning the bread in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple, to be eaten only by the priests, descendants of Aaron. (Leviticus 24:8,9)

God promised a new covenant in the Bible. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

God, in the Bible, spoke of His unconditional covenant with King David of Israel and of His continuing, unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants. (Jeremiah 33:19-36)

The most important one is a new testament or a covenant of fulfillment in Jesus and established by Jesus upon His death on the cross. (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews chapters 7 - 10). Paul described the memorial that we are to keep. (1 Corinthians 11:23-30)

 

[Mungo]

As I said, I don't see Adam in (Hosea 6:7). The covenant mentioned is the Mosaic Covenant.

Quantrill

Like Adam they broke the covenant.

Yes, "they" broke the Mosaic Covenant.
But in breaking a covenant they were like Adam.
The being like Adam was in breaking a covenant,
Therefore Adam broke a covenant or they nwould not be like him in respect of covenant breaking.

 

[Quantrill]

Like Adam they broke the covenant.

Yes, "they" broke the Mosaic Covenant.
But in breaking a covenant they were like Adam.
The being like Adam was in breaking a covenant,
Therefore Adam broke a covenant or they nwould not be like him in respect of covenant breaking.

The point is that Adam is not being addressed here.

Quantrill

 

[Mungo]

The point is that Adam is not being addressed here.

Quantrill

See post #63

 

[Quantrill]

See post #63

The covenant spoken of is the Mosaic Covenant. Not the covenant made with Adam. And I don't believe Adam's sin is comparable to the treachery spoken of in (Hos. 6:7).

From the TANAKH (Hos. 6:7) "But they, to a man, have transgressed the Covenant."

Quantrill

 

[Mungo]

The covenant spoken of is the Mosaic Covenant. Not the covenant made with Adam. And I don't believe Adam's sin is comparable to the treachery spoken of in (Hos. 6:7).

From the TANAKH (Hos. 6:7) "But they, to a man, have transgressed the Covenant."

Quantrill

"Like Adam they broke the covenant."

Yes, "they" broke the Mosaic Covenant.
But in breaking a covenant they were like Adam.
The being like Adam was in breaking a covenant,
Therefore Adam broke a covenant or they would not be like him in respect of covenant breaking.

 

[Quantrill]

"Like Adam they broke the covenant."

Yes, "they" broke the Mosaic Covenant.
But in breaking a covenant they were like Adam.
The being like Adam was in breaking a covenant,
Therefore Adam broke a covenant or they would not be like him in respect of covenant breaking.

But it says they broke 'the' covenant. A particular covenant. That being the Mosaic Covenant.

If you want to say it is Adam, that's fine. I won't go to the martyr's stake over it. I don't believe it is referring to Adam at all, for the reasons given.

Quantrill

 

[Mungo]

But it says they broke 'the' covenant. A particular covenant. That being the Mosaic Covenant.

If you want to say it is Adam, that's fine. I won't go to the martyr's stake over it. I don't believe it is referring to Adam at all, for the reasons given.

Quantrill

"They" broke a covenant- the Mosaic Covenant.
They were like Adam.
The being like Adam was in breaking a covenant.
Therefore Adam broke a covenant.
Did Adam break the Mosaic Covenant? Obviously not.
Therefore to be a covenant breaker like Adam, then Adam had to be in a covenant.
What do you not understand?

I would have thought you would like that scripture. It is scriptural support for your claim that Adam was in a Covenant rather than just your opinion. But perhaps you think your opinion matters not scripture.

Susannah had it right in post #46

 

[Quantrill]

"They" broke a covenant- the Mosaic Covenant.
They were like Adam.
The being like Adam was in breaking a covenant.
Therefore Adam broke a covenant.
Did Adam break the Mosaic Covenant? Obviously not.
Therefore to be a covenant breaker like Adam, then Adam had to be in a covenant.
What do you not understand?

I would have thought you would like that scripture. It is scriptural support for your claim that Adam was in a Covenant rather than just your opinion. But perhaps you think your opinion matters not scripture.

Susannah had it right in post #46

As I said, believe this however you like. It adds nothing to the question of the New Covenant, which you seem to be avoiding.

You have admitted you don't know who the New Covenant is made with. You say, no one. That is absolutely an error. The whole point of a Covenant is between two parties.

So, if you want to continue with your 'smoke screen' to hide your 'error' go ahead. I have already said and supported my view of (Hosea. 6:7).

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

See? You don't know who the New Covenant is with. Yet you demand of me Scripture showing it is with Christ. Which I gave.

The New Covenant is with someone. So, go back and try and figure it out. Get back when you have an answer.

Quantrill

Mungo already gave you the answer, but it seems you do not understand what he said in post #81.

The new covenant is God's free gift of grace through faith that is Christ Jesus. Jesus is our faith in the new covenant whom by his blood sacrifice once and for all makes atonement for all sin in those who believe in His name, being made new again by the washing of His blood that we are made clean before the Lord.

Compare the old covenant with the new covenant through Christ: (Not sure if I already posted this before)

Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHIZEDEK priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

 

[for_his_glory]

The covenant spoken of is the Mosaic Covenant. Not the covenant made with Adam. And I don't believe Adam's sin is comparable to the treachery spoken of in (Hos. 6:7).

From the TANAKH (Hos. 6:7) "But they, to a man, have transgressed the Covenant."

Quantrill

Hosea 6:7 the word "men" are all those beginning with Adam who was the first man to have transgressed God's covenant.

God's Covenant Promises

With Adam there was two parts of God's covenant with him. The first outlines the parameters of Adam's existence in the garden of Eden. The second part of the promise, which was given after Adam sinned, outlines the parameters of Adams existence outside the garden of Eden, (Genesis 1:26-30 and 2:16, 17), including the curse found in Genesis 3:16-19.

With Noah to save him and his family, (Genesis 6:18)

With Noah and his descendants to never again destroy the world by flood. (Genesis 9:9-17)

With Abram to give him and his descendants the land we call Israel today and to destroy the inhabitants of that land because of their great sins (Genesis 15:18-21)

God's follow-up with Abram, changing his name to Abraham, and designating him the father of many nations and millions of descendants, and adding the covenant of circumcision, and promising him Isaac as a son and the inheritor of it (Genesis chapter 17). God made His with Abraham unconditional. (Genesis 22:12-18)

God's conditional one with the children of Israel, requiring their keeping God's law and circumcision, in return for physical blessings (Exodus 19-4). Further terms (conditions) of this covenant were expounded later (Leviticus chapters 25-27; Deuteronomy chapters 29- 31).

With the children of Israel concerning the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:14-18)

God's concerning the Ten Commandments and Holy Days designated by God. (Exodus 34:10 - 35)

God's concerning the bread in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple, to be eaten only by the priests, descendants of Aaron. (Leviticus 24:8,9)

God promised a new covenant in the Bible. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

God, in the Bible, spoke of His unconditional covenant with King David of Israel and of His continuing, unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants. (Jeremiah 33:19-36)

The most important one is a new testament or a covenant of fulfillment in Jesus and established by Jesus upon His death on the cross. (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews chapters 7 - 10). Paul described the memorial that we are to keep. (1 Corinthians 11:23-30)

 

[Mungo]

As I said, believe this however you like. It adds nothing to the question of the New Covenant, which you seem to be avoiding.

No. I am not avoiding the New Covenant. I gave you a long answer in post #81

You have admitted you don't know who the New Covenant is made with. You say, no one. That is absolutely an error. The whole point of a Covenant is between two parties.

I did not admit that that I don't know who the New Covenant is made with. I clearly said it was made with no-one - as you just admitted.
You say the whole point of a Covenant is between two parties yet I showed from scripture that Jesus embodies the covenant in himself.
And I also quoted you saying "A covenant with God, and that is what we are talking about, is what God wants it to be."
So if God wants to make Jesus a living covenant then He can do that by your own admission.

So, if you want to continue with your 'smoke screen' to hide your 'error' go ahead. I have already said and supported my view of (Hosea. 6:7).

Quantrill

No smokescreen on my part - just false claims by you.

 

[Quantrill]

Mungo already gave you the answer, but it seems you do not understand what he said in post #81.

The new covenant is God's free gift of grace through faith that is Christ Jesus. Jesus is our faith in the new covenant whom by his blood sacrifice once and for all makes atonement for all sin in those who believe in His name, being made new again by the washing of His blood that we are made clean before the Lord.

Compare the old covenant with the new covenant through Christ: (Not sure if I already posted this before)

Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHIZEDEK priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

The Old Covenant, which is the Mosaic Law is in contrast to the New Covenant. But it is not a contrast of 'spirituality'. The Mosaic was just as 'spiritual' as the New Covenant.

We divide our Bible in half called Old and New Testament's as though everyone in the Old Testament was under the Law and everyone in the New Testament is under Grace. But the Law did not begin till (Ex. 19). Millions of people had existed prior to that time who were not under Law. And the Gospels, though in the New Testament, are historically still under the Law.

The Covenant with Abraham is the base Covenant. It is the one which all others grow out of. (Gen. 12:1-3) It was in existence prior to the Law. It was in existence during the Law. It is in existence today.

God brought Abraham into covenant relation with Him. But God did not make that Covenant dependent on Abraham for it's fulfillment. See (Gen. 15:7-17). Abraham would have passed between the parts of animals laid out and divided if there was any responsibility on him to bring about it's fulfillment. God alone went through those parts and more specifically, The Son, Jesus Christ. (Gal. 3:17) "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ...."

As God progresses in fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant, preparing a nation for the land as promised, He brings this people out of Egypt. Israel. This people are under the Abrahamic Covenant. God then makes another Covenant with them, the Law. But the Law did not change the Abrahamic Covenant. (Gal. 3:17) It placed Israel under a strict conduct of law. Obedience was required. (Ex. 19:5) The terms were read to them. (Ex. 24:7) They agreed, ratifying the covenant. (24:7) Unlike the Abrahamic Covenant, the Law was dependent on them for it's fulfillment. But, they failed.

Another Covenant, a New Covenant, will be made with Israel. (Jer. 31:33) New as opposed to the Mosaic Covenant. (31:32) It is with Israel. But it, just like the Abrahamic Covenant is between God the Father and Christ. It is with Israel but it's fulfillment is not based on Israel. It is based only on the obedience of Christ.

The New Covenant has been made already. But Israel as a nation rejects it, as she rejects Him Who is the Mediator and Surety of the New Covenant, Christ. The door is open for the Gentiles to come to this Covenant salvation of the New Covenant. But, when they do, they are coming into covenants that are with Israel. (Eph. 2:12-13)

Israel has rejected it but one day she as a nation will turn back to God and come under the New Covenant. (Rom. 11:25-27)

This is how I see it.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

No. I am not avoiding the New Covenant. I gave you a long answer in post #81



I did not admit that that I don't know who the New Covenant is made with. I clearly said it was made with no-one - as you just admitted.
You say the whole point of a Covenant is between two parties yet I showed from scripture that Jesus embodies the covenant in himself.
And I also quoted you saying "A covenant with God, and that is what we are talking about, is what God wants it to be."
So if God wants to make Jesus a living covenant then He can do that by your own admission.


No smokescreen on my part - just false claims by you.

A covenant is always made with someone. That is it's purpose. Jesus is a living Covenant in both the Abrahamic and the New Covenant in that those Covenants are between Him and the Father and dependent on Him for their fulfillment.

It was Jesus who passed with God the Father between the parts in (Gen. 15:7-17) (Gal. 3:17) Thus the Son was in Covenant with the Father. The New Covenant is a product of the Abrahamic Covenant also. And it too is between the Son and the Father.

Though the New Covenant has been made with Israel, she has yet to be brought into it for her rejection of Christ. But she will be because the New Covenant is not depended on her for it's fulfillment. Which is why it exists today.

Quantrill

 

[Mungo]

A covenant is always made with someone. That is it's purpose. Jesus is a living Covenant in both the Abrahamic and the New Covenant in that those Covenants are between Him and the Father and dependent on Him for their fulfillment.
Quantrill

That is not true.
Gen 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram
Gen 17:1-2 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, “I am God Almighty;[a] walk before me, and be blameless. And I will make my covenant between me and you
Gen 17:4 “Behold, my covenant is with you
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant,
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you

 

[Mungo]

It was Jesus who passed with God the Father between the parts in (Gen. 15:7-17) (Gal. 3:17) Thus the Son was in Covenant with the Father. The New Covenant is a product of the Abrahamic Covenant also. And it too is between the Son and the Father.
Quantrill

You seem to specialise in giving quotes that do not support your opinions.

Neither of those quotes say that Jesus made a covenant with the Father or that they both passed through the parts in Gen 15:7-17.