The No-Trib Rapture Discussion

[researcher]

The bible doesnt say anything about becoming immortal after you die.It says you become immortal at the sound of the seventh trump.
Now you say when you die the corruptible(the flesh) will put on incorruption but I bet if you died ,they would put you in the ground.Id bet your flesh will rot like anyone elses.
Hence-this corruptible has not yet put on incorruption.

It is written that Gog will come against those who dwell without walls.And you say you are awaiting Gog to attack those in the beloved city .
If Israel in fact dwells without walls today then why are they building walls?

2Co 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

If you die, where does your spirit go?

As for Gog, no one said it was imminent. Anything can happen in a given span of time. Those walls might come down. And no one knows the extent of the walls. There are many unwalled cities in Israel.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher If you die, where does your spirit go?

A better question is if I die,where do I go?
My money says someone will bury me in the ground.

Jesus said he would be in the ground but the scripture say he would not see corruption.
Ive got a feeling if they put me in the ground,im going to rot.

 

[researcher]

researcher If you die, where does your spirit go?

A better question is if I die,where do I go?
My money says someone will bury me in the ground.

Jesus said he would be in the ground but the scripture say he would not see corruption.
Ive got a feeling if they put me in the ground,im going to rot.

Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.

Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

The spirit or soul leaves the body. The flesh is dead, and gets buried. Your spirit is in your flesh body, it doesn't die when your physical body goes.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

A soul is a soul. You can't see it. Your soul or spirit goes somewhere.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

="researcher
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

A soul is a soul. You can't see it. Your soul or spirit goes somewhere.

The above is speaking of those who have been resurrected.
Those who were sown in corruption and were raised in incorruption.

 

[4thangelofEuphrates]

Not only do I believe that we are in the ma-gog and gog war, because
of what ( researcher ) has already gave on this forum of what Jesus said to
his followers that those things ( Tribulations ) would happen to them before
their generation pasted, but also because of a few other things.

Here is one of those:
Now Jesus also said this to his followers:
Then if any man shall say unto ( you ), Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christ, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs
and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is
in the desert, go not forth, behold he is in the secret chambers, believe it not.



Now this is a personal feeling because there is not enough evidence to support it yet so
for me it is not set in stone just a thought to ponder on.

I feel that it will be discovered that all these lost civilizations that built some of these
wonders of the world, such as the pyramids of Egypt, temple pyramids in Belize, stone-heng,
and giant stone people on easter Island, those civilizations where actually visited by angels of
heaven and had help from these angels to build these things. But the angels where Satan's angels
that were cast out of heaven at the time Satan was cast out ( these are the false Christ and the
false prophets ) and because of the signs, and wonders these angels performed they deceived
these people and helped them in to creating these things and caused the people to give worship
unto Satan. The people were deceived because they thought these angels were either God or
Jesus or a heavenly good angel, but they were not. And these bad angels caused these people to
worship the beast or fake God, for which they were actually giving worship to Satan. I believe that
God wiped these civilizations out with plagues for giving worship unto idols, Satan and these false
Christ and prophet angels. I feel this is where the end of the first war came in, but again it is
a personal feeling and there is not enough evidence yet to support it.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Ok
If its in the past then no one should have any problem telling me the date of this event since you say its history.
Rev 6;12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,and lo,there was a great earthquake;and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;and every mountain and island were moved out of thier places.
And the kings of the earth,and the great men,and the rich men,and the chief captains,and the mighty men,and every bondman,and every free man,hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us,and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne,and from the wrath of the Lamb;
For the great day of his wrath is come;and who shall be able to stand?

There it is.Since you say it is past ,tell us the date of the event discribed above.

 

[researcher]

Not only do I believe that we are in the ma-gog and gog war, because
of what ( researcher ) has already gave on this forum of what Jesus said to
his followers that those things ( Tribulations ) would happen to them before
their generation pasted, but also because of a few other things.

Here is one of those:
Now Jesus also said this to his followers:
Then if any man shall say unto ( you ), Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christ, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs
and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is
in the desert, go not forth, behold he is in the secret chambers, believe it not.



Now this is a personal feeling because there is not enough evidence to support it yet so
for me it is not set in stone just a thought to ponder on.

I feel that it will be discovered that all these lost civilizations that built some of these
wonders of the world, such as the pyramids of Egypt, temple pyramids in Belize, stone-heng,
and giant stone people on easter Island, those civilizations where actually visited by angels of
heaven and had help from these angels to build these things. But the angels where Satan's angels
that were cast out of heaven at the time Satan was cast out ( these are the false Christ and the
false prophets ) and because of the signs, and wonders these angels performed they deceived
these people and helped them in to creating these things and caused the people to give worship
unto Satan. The people were deceived because they thought these angels were either God or
Jesus or a heavenly good angel, but they were not. And these bad angels caused these people to
worship the beast or fake God, for which they were actually giving worship to Satan. I believe that
God wiped these civilizations out with plagues for giving worship unto idols, Satan and these false
Christ and prophet angels. I feel this is where the end of the first war came in, but again it is
a personal feeling and there is not enough evidence yet to support it.

Yeah. Satan and the fallen angels were probably some of the "gods" that ancient civilizations wrote about. Many depict them coming out of the sky on chariots of fire etc. The Hebrew word for God and gods is Elohim. Those civilizations probably came into contact with them. Ezekiel 28 could be some reference to Satan ruling the nations as the cherub before he fell although it's wrapped up in a parable with the king of Tyre.

If it's as some people suspect, the world will go back to this form of "Elohim" government when the world ends. The angels & or transformed saints will rule the world of the mortals as gods (sons of God). God and Jesus will be the head, and, the saints will rule over nations and cities etc. To the people, we will be like gods. Most likely what will happen. At least I would hope so. What's the point of being a god if you can't rule over something, LOL.

 

[researcher]

Ok
If its in the past then no one should have any problem telling me the date of this event since you say its history.
Rev 6;12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,and lo,there was a great earthquake;and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;and every mountain and island were moved out of thier places.
And the kings of the earth,and the great men,and the rich men,and the chief captains,and the mighty men,and every bondman,and every free man,hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks,Fall on us,and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne,and from the wrath of the Lamb;
For the great day of his wrath is come;and who shall be able to stand?

There it is.Since you say it is past ,tell us the date of the event discribed above.

The book of Revelation is a highly symbolic book. Not everything is literal.

Is the darkness here literal?

Isa 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of Jehovah is risen upon thee.
Isa 60:2 For, behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the peoples; but Jehovah will arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

Mat 4:14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying,
Mat 4:15 The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, Toward the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles,
Mat 4:16 The people that sat in darkness Saw a great light, And to them that sat in the region and shadow of death, To them did light spring up.

Was that literal darkness, and, was Jesus all bright and shiny like an angel? Nope.

Stars falling to earth? Stars can't fall to earth. One would do the trick, although, it wouldn't fall on earth, earth would get sucked into its gravitational pull if anything. And that would be the end. Stars are symbolic for angels (Rev 1:20, Rev 8:10, Rev 2:28, Rev 8:11). Angels fell to the earth.

Sky rolling up? Have no idea. Could be literal, could be figurative.

Sun darkened, moon turned to blood? Smoke from a city on fire sure would do that.
Check out the moon during a forest fire. Red as all be. :D

Jesus told the people of Jerusalem they would cry out to the hills to fall on them. He was referring to the fall and destruction of the city.

Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for Yourselves, and for your children.
Luk 23:29 For behold, the days are coming, in which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck.
Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Anyone who didn't heed his warning to flee when the city was surrounded by the Roman legions under Titus would most likely be killed which history tells us happened. If it wasn't talking about that, then, there is always the bride coming out of heaven after the millenium and fire coming from God, destroying Gog's armies.

Here are some other things Roman historians (or any others) declined to write about.

Luk 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

(Literal Version)
Mat 27:51 And, behold! The veil of the temple was torn into two from above as far as below. And the earth quaked, and the rocks were sheared!

Mat 27:52 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
Mat 27:53 And coming forth out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered into the holy city and were revealed to many.

Mat 28:2 And behold, there was a GReat earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled away the stone, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His appearance was as lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

Seems like all of these things would have been the talk of the town. Those are major events. The dead coming back to life, parading around the cities. Darkness and earthquakes. The authorities didn't write any of this down. If they did, we don't have record of it.

And remember, the authorities tried to cover up Jesus' resurrection -

Analytical/Literal Version
Mat 28:11 Now while they are going, look!, some of the guard [of soldiers] having come into the city reported to the chief priests all the [things] having happened.
Mat 28:12 And having been gathered together with the elders, and having taken counsel [or, having plotted], they gave much money to the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 saying, "Say, 'His disciples having come by night stole Him while we were sleeping.'
Mat 28:14 "And if this is heard by the governor, _we_ will persuade him, and we will make you* free from anxiety [fig., will keep you* out of trouble]."
Mat 28:15 So having received the money, they did as they were taught. And this account was spread widely among Jews until this day.

There was no CNN or internet, or blogs or youtube back then. If the government (or the leaders of the Jews) wanted something covered up, they bribed people. Or they straight out wrote a different account of what happened.

Did anyone write about all of the miracles Jesus did, or, the Apostles? Nope. Not 'til later in history. No one knows what happened back then concerning Jesus and the Apostles outside of their own writings.

Have you read any of the writings of the church after that century? There is nothing like what the Apostles wrote concerning what they believed was the imminent return of Jesus. There were 40 years of "we eagerly await his return," the day of the Lord is at hand," I am coming quickly!." Then, nothing. No one was so convinced that Jesus was returning in their day than the Apostles. And with good cause. Jesus himself told them he would be. These people were hand picked by God, and schooled by Jesus himself. Never been any like them since. If they said Jesus was coming in their day, I'll have to take their word for it.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No one was so convinced that Jesus was returning in their day than the Apostles. And with good cause. Jesus himself told them he would be. These people were hand picked by God, and schooled by Jesus himself. Never been any like them since. If they said Jesus was coming in their day, I'll have to take their word for it.

Peter seemed to know when the day of the Lord would be.If you can hear it.
2 peter 3;8-10

Sky rolling up? Have no idea. Could be literal, could be figurative.

This is what takes place when stars fall from heaven unto the earth.
Same as an earthquake,the sun and moon darkens.The sky darkens.

You havent given me a date because it hasnt happened.

This is a huge event unlike the world has ever seen and it cant be missed.
The bible says its a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation,even to that same time.Dan 12;1-At that time thy people will be deliverd which corresponds to the 144,000 being sealed.

 

[4thangelofEuphrates]

shilohsfoal:

Peter was describing that a day with God in heaven ( Spiritual ) is a thousand years for
us on earth ( Physical ). Peter was not telling when the end was, he was describing
the difference between our time and God's time.

So if you are saying that the tribulations has not come because of this ( a day equal a
thousand years ). Then one would have to refigure all the times the prophets gave
a time in the bible. Example: 3.5 years would have to be changed to 1,277,500 years
and the 1000 years of Rev. 20 would have to be changed to 365,000,000 years. and if
you go by that then from the time Jesus was crusified to the end of the world would be
way more then 365,000,000 years. I don't think so!

Not to mention if you were to have read beyond 2 Peter 3:8-10 and read up to verse 13
you would have seen he was talking about God coming not Jesus, and peter was speaking
of the end of the world for all and a new heaven and a new earth being made. But peter
did not give a set date or time.

I will end with this: if I misread your post and what you were trying to say then I apologize

 

[researcher]

No one was so convinced that Jesus was returning in their day than the Apostles. And with good cause. Jesus himself told them he would be. These people were hand picked by God, and schooled by Jesus himself. Never been any like them since. If they said Jesus was coming in their day, I'll have to take their word for it.

Peter seemed to know when the day of the Lord would be.If you can hear it.
2 peter 3;8-10

Sky rolling up? Have no idea. Could be literal, could be figurative.

This is what takes place when stars fall from heaven unto the earth.
Same as an earthquake,the sun and moon darkens.The sky darkens.

You havent given me a date because it hasnt happened.

This is a huge event unlike the world has ever seen and it cant be missed.
The bible says its a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation,even to that same time.Dan 12;1-At that time thy people will be deliverd which corresponds to the 144,000 being sealed.

Literal stars aren't going to fall on the earth. It's impossible. Those are angels.

Rev 1:20 the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks are seven churches.

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss.

2nd Peter is considered by almost all modern scholars to be pseudonymous, and is dated after his death. Peter didn't write this book. Whoever the author is got the timing of the new heaven and earth wrong also. The earth isn't destroyed by fire at the second coming and there isn't a new heavens and earth then either.
That happens after the millenium - 1000 years or more after his return.

Two verses from a pseudonymous author doesn't do anything to counter the Apostles and Jesus' words -

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Rom 13:11 And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed

1Co 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
1Co 7:31 and those that use the world, as not using it to the full: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

Rev 3:11 'I am coming quickly! Be holding fast what you have, so that no one shall receive your victor's wreath.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:7 "{And} listen! I am coming quickly! Happy [is] the one keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll."

It's over. He came back. If he didn't, then he lied. :o
But he can't lie, so, he came back.

 

[researcher]

Gospel was Preached to all Nations


Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And the Bible says -

Tit 2:11 For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,

1Ti 3:16 and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety--God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Act 19:10 And this continued for the space of two years; so that all they that dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks.

1Th 1:8 For from you hath sounded forth the word of the Lord, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but in every place your faith to God-ward is gone forth; so that we need not to speak anything.

This is fulfilled prophecy

 

[researcher]

False Prophets, Deceivers & AntiChrists came in 40AD-65AD


Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

And the Bible says -

Act 8:9 And a certain man, by name Simon, was before in the city using magic, and amazing the nation of Samaria, saying himself to be a certain great one,

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God;
because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

2Co 2:17 For we are not as the many, corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, speak we in Christ.

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them that are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which ye learned: and turn away from them.

Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn aside the proconsul from the faith.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel;
Gal 1:7 which is not another gospel only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified?

Gal 5:7 Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion came not of him that calleth you.

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

1Ti 1:3 As I exhorted thee to tarry at Ephesus, when I was going into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge certain men not to teach a different doctrine,

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Fulfilled Prophecy!

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher
2nd Peter is considered by almost all modern scholars to be pseudonymous, and is dated after his death. Peter didn't write this book. Whoever the author is got the timing of the new heaven and earth wrong also. The earth isn't destroyed by fire at the second coming and there isn't a new heavens and earth then either.
That happens after the millenium - 1000 years or more after his return.

Two verses from a pseudonymous author doesn't do anything to counter the Apostles and Jesus' words -

Peter isnt talking about a new heaven and a new earth.Hes talking about the promise the Lord made .A promise you dont seem to understand.
You also dont understand the fact that Jesus said in the gospel when the body of Christ would rise which is what Peter is talking about.What peter said is the same thing Jesus said in the gospel concerning the resurrection of the body of Christ.
Its also the same thing Barnabus said if you have ever read the book.

I recon its just one of those things you need ears to hear.

You can go ahead and wait for the Gog Magog war but I'll just keep watching the prophecies unfold as I have been for the last ten years.My bet is you will not see any sign before the day of the Lord .

ps
Just to give you a hint of the time line Peter said in 2 peter3;10 that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.Now you say thats talking about Gog Magog but its talking about Armagedon.Rev 16;15'-Behold I come as a thief ".

Im going to leave you to your own now.
If you want to believe Armagedon is already past ,You go right ahead.

Bye Bye

 

[researcher]

Apostles suffered Tribulation, and were Brought before Leaders

Jesus told the disciples -

Luk 21:12 But BEFORE all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name's sake.

Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to councils, and in theirs synagogues they will scourge you;
Mat 10:18 yea and before governors and kings shall ye be brought for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.

And the Bible says -

Act 5:17 And having risen, the chief priest, and all those with him--being the sect of the Sadducees--were filled with zeal,
Act 5:18 and laid their hands upon the apostles, and did put them in a public prison;

Act 5:26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them, but without violence; for they feared the people, lest they should be stoned.
Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them,

Act 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles unto them, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

Act 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king put forth his hands to afflict certain of the church.
Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
Act 12:3 And when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also.

Act 7:58 They threw him out of the city and began to stone him to death. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Act 7:59 As they continued to stone Stephen, he kept praying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"
Act 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he died.

2Co 1:8 For we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning our affliction which befell us in Asia, that we were weighed down exceedingly, beyond our power, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death.
And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church which was in Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act 8:3 But Saul laid waste the church, entering into every house, and dragging men and women committed them to prison.

Act 16:19 But when her masters saw that the hope of their gain was gone,
they laid hold on Paul and Silas, and dragged them into the marketplace before the rulers,

Act 16:22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent their garments off them, and commanded to beat them with rods.
Act 16:23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:

Act 17:6 And when they found them not, they dragged Jason and certain brethren before the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

Act 18:12 When Gallio was made the Roman governor of Achaia, Jews there got together, seized Paul, and took him into court.

2Co 1:8 For we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning our affliction which befell us in Asia, that we were weighed down exceedingly, beyond our power, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

More fulfilled prophecy!

 

[researcher]

researcher
2nd Peter is considered by almost all modern scholars to be pseudonymous, and is dated after his death. Peter didn't write this book. Whoever the author is got the timing of the new heaven and earth wrong also. The earth isn't destroyed by fire at the second coming and there isn't a new heavens and earth then either.
That happens after the millenium - 1000 years or more after his return.

Two verses from a pseudonymous author doesn't do anything to counter the Apostles and Jesus' words -

Peter isnt talking about a new heaven and a new earth.Hes talking about the promise the Lord made .A promise you dont seem to understand.
You also dont understand the fact that Jesus said in the gospel when the body of Christ would rise which is what Peter is talking about.What peter said is the same thing Jesus said in the gospel concerning the resurrection of the body of Christ.
Its also the same thing Barnabus said if you have ever read the book.

I recon its just one of those things you need ears to hear.

You can go ahead and wait for the Gog Magog war but I'll just keep watching the prophecies unfold as I have been for the last ten years.My bet is you will not see any sign before the day of the Lord .

ps
Just to give you a hint of the time line Peter said in 2 peter3;10 that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.Now you say thats talking about Gog Magog but its talking about Armagedon.Rev 16;15'-Behold I come as a thief ".

Im going to leave you to your own now.
If you want to believe Armagedon is already past ,You go right ahead.

Bye Bye

I suppose that's why none of the Apostles were women. LOL.

Will Jesus come as a thief, or will he light up the sky?

Jesus told the disciples he would come back and take them to heaven.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

He isn't ruling from earth during the millenium. He took them to heaven like he said.

 

[4thangelofEuphrates]

I can see I need to apologize to Shilohsfoal

Yes 2 peter 3;8-12
was talking about the promise that Jesus made and that concerning his
return, and it seem it was the people he was talking to that where in
conversation, and looking for the hasting unto the coming of the day of
God and the new heavens and earth.


We may not agree as far as where we are in Rev. Shilohsfoal, but we
each have a choice, but hopefully the end result for all of us is that
everyone that seeks and strives to follow the Lord is saved even if what you
believe comes true, or what I believe comes true.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I can see I need to apologize to Shilohsfoal

Yes 2 peter 3;8-12
was talking about the promise that Jesus made and that concerning his
return, and it seem it was the people he was talking to that where in
conversation, and looking for the hasting unto the coming of the day of
God and the new heavens and earth.


We may not agree as far as where we are in Rev. Shilohsfoal, but we
each have a choice, but hopefully the end result for all of us is that
everyone that seeks and strives to follow the Lord is saved even if what you
believe comes true, or what I believe comes true.

You dont have any reason to apologize.
We just look at things differently.
You might look at this one way and I can look at it in another.
Hosea 6;1-3
Come,and let us return unto the Lord;for he hath torn,and he will heal us;he hath smitten,and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us;in the third day he will raise us up,and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know,if we go on to know the Lord;his going forth is prepared as the morning;and he shall come unto us as the rain,as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

 

[researcher]

And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them,

Take heed that no man lead you astray. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray. And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places. But all these things are the beginning of travail. Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake. And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold. But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: let him that is on the housetop not go down to take out things that are in his house: and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak. But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath: for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

(Almost everyone in Jerusalem was killed, but some escaped)

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you beforehand. If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth (LAND (litv)) mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh; even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till ALL these things be accomplished.
Mat 24:3-34 ASV

The preceding is past tense. It happened in that generation, exactly how Jesus described it.

 

[XTruth]

20 CONTRASTS BETWEEN THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND ADVENT

1. The rapture is a going up to heaven of all saved men of all past ages (John. 14:1-3; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10), whereas the second advent is a coming down from heaven to earth of the same people (Rev. 19:11-21; Jude 14-15; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Mt. 16:27; Mt 24:29-31; Mt 25:31-46; Zech. 14:1-9).

2. The rapture is a coming of Christ from heaven to the clouds (not to the earth) for the saints-both dead (who will be resurrected) and alive-to take them to heaven (1 Thess. 4:16), while the second advent is a coming from heaven with the previously raptured saints to set up a kingdom and rule eternally (Zech. 14:1-9; Jude 14-15; Rev. 11:15; Rev 19:11-21; Rev 22:4-5; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Mt. 25:31-46; Isa. 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-15,18,22,27; Lk. 1:32-36).

3. Our goal in the rapture is heaven to live with Christ in our mansions (John. 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 2:19-20; 1 Thess 3:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Thess 5:1-11,23; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8), while the goal in the second advent is to leave heaven for the earth to reign forever (Zech. 14; Jude 14-15; Rev. 11:15; Rev 19:11 - Rev 20:10).

4. At the rapture Christ does not come to destroy the Antichrist or any other wicked man but to remove the hinderer of lawlessness (the church, Chapter 10, Proof 1), so that the Antichrist can come (2 Thess. 2:7-8), while at the second advent Christ comes back to the earth with all saints of all ages to destroy Antichrist and multitudes of wicked men (2 Thess. 2:7-8; Dan. 7:11; Jude 14-15; Rev. 19:11-21; see also Mt. 24:37-42;Mt 25:31-46; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39; Zech. 14).

5. At the rapture Christ comes from heaven to the clouds only (not to the earth) to take the good from among the bad (John. 5:28-29; John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; Phil. 3:21; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 4:16-18; Jas. 5:7-8), while at the second advent-years later-He comes to the earth with His raptured saints to take the bad from among the good (Mt. 13:30,39-43,49-50;Mt 24:29-31,37-42; Jude 14-15; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21).

6. At the rapture only those qualified for heaven will be raptured (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 4:16; Rev. 20:4-6); only those who are born again will be changed from mortality to immortality and go to heaven. At the second advent, on the other hand, any and all men qualified to live on the earth as citizens will be permitted to continue as natural people into the next age, without any change from mortality to immortality (Mt. 25:31-46; Zech. 8:23;Zech 14:1-21; Isa. 2:2-4;Isa 66:19-21; Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-14; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 2:27-28; Rev 11:15; Rev 20:4-6).

7. At the rapture there will be no battle of Armageddon (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; 1 Thess. 4:16), while at the second advent Armageddon will be fought (Zech. 14; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14-15; Rev. 16:13-16; Rev 19:11-21; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39).

8. At the rapture there will be no change of home lands on earth among the nations (John. 14:1-3), while at the second advent there will be a general separation of nations back to their original home lands, including Israel (Isa. 11:11-12; Deut 32:8; Ezek. 37; Mt. 24:31; Acts 17:26).

9. At the rapture no man will be sent to hell, but all saints will be taken to heaven (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Thess. 4:16; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10), while at the second advent millions of men will be sent to hell and none taken to heaven (Mt. 13:30,43-50;Mt 25:31-46; Isa. 14:9-15; Rev. 14:9-11; Rev 19:20; Rev 20:10).

10. At the rapture all saints will "escape all these things that shall come to pass" during the tribulation, and will "stand before the Son of man" (Lk. 21:34-36; John. 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:16;1 Thess 5:1-11; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10; see Chapter 10), whereas at the second advent no man who is subject to punishment will escape (Rev. 19:1-21; Mt. 24:29-31;Mt 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10).

11. The rapture will take place before the revelation of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:7-8) and before the tribulation and fulfillment of Rev. 4:1 - Rev 22:21, while the second advent will take place after these events (Mt. 24:29-31; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:11-21). See Chapter 10.

12. At the rapture there will be a resurrection of all the righteous dead (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; Phil. 3:21), while at the second advent there will be no resurrection of any righteous man, for the first resurrection will then be over (Rev. 20:4-6).

13. At the time of the rapture no man on earth will know who the Antichrist is (2 Thess. 2:7-8), whereas at the second advent all men on earth in the civilized parts will know who he is (Rev. 13:16-18).

14. At the rapture the church and all others who are redeemed saints at that time will be presented to God in heaven (Eph. 5:27; 1 Thess. 3:13;1 Thess 5:23), while at the second advent all raptured saints will be presented to men on earth as their new rulers (Rev. 2:27; Rev 5:10; Rev 20:4-6; Dan. 7:9-27).

15. Before the rapture there will be no marriage supper of the Lamb, whereas just before the second advent there will be such a supper of Christ with all the redeemed of all ages past (Rev. 19:1-21).

16. There will be a seven-year period of tribulation after the rapture (2 Thess. 2:7-8; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 6:1 - Rev 19:21), whereas there will be no tribulation at all after the second advent, for the second coming of Christ ends all tribulation (Mt. 24:29-31;Mt 25:31-46; Rev. 19-20).

17. There will be no end of the world (age) at the time of the rapture, while the age will definitely end at the time of the second advent of Christ to the earth (Mt. 24:1-3,29-31;Mt 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 19:1 - Rev 20:10).

18. The rapture is an event that can take place any day without any prophecy being fulfilled or any sign coming to pass (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:21; Tit. 2:13; 1 Thess. 1:10), while the second advent cannot take place until all of the predictions in Mt. 24 - Mt. 25; Mk 13; Lk. 21:1-11,25-33; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; and Rev. 4:1 - Rev 19:10 have been fulfilled.

19. There will be no reign of the Antichrist before the rapture, but there will be such a reign before the second advent (Dan. 9:27; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 6:1 - Rev 19:21).

20. There will be no martyrdoms of saints after the second advent, while there will be multitudes of martyrs after the rapture and between the time of the rapture and the second advent (Rev. 6:9-11; Rev 7:9-17; Rev 13:7; Rev 14:9-13; Rev 15:1-4; Rev 17:6; Rev 18:24; Rev 20:4-6).

We conclude then, that if the church and all other raptured saints are to eat a marriage supper with Christ in heaven (as in Rev. 19:1-10), which happens just before the second advent begins (as in Rev. 19:11-21), then the church cannot remain on earth through the tribulation period. It must arrive in heaven prior to the time of the second advent. Furthermore, if the saints are to leave with Christ at the second advent they must already be up in heaven before that time so as to be able to return with Him. And since the rapture can take place at any moment (as taught in 1 Cor. 15:51-54; Phil. 3:21 and Tit. 2:13)-since it could have happened even in Paul's day according to these passages of Scripture-then we can be certain that the rapture will not take place at a specified time as in the case of the second advent which is predicted to happen at a particular time-that is, at the end of the tribulation period (Mt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21). This, to us, is truly conclusive proof that the rapture of the church and O.T. saints will take place before the tribulation begins.

***â€â€Dake's Topics on software from Dake's Annotated Reference Bible***