The No-Trib Rapture Discussion

[researcher]

gtg. time for some work.

 

[Cornelius]

Actually, if he makes "all things new," that would mean that he makes new people. It would be like Genesis all over again, except there would be no Satan. :o WoW! :D

LOL No, it does not mean , "new people" too, because that is what we are. God has already made the "new creation" in us. That is why Jesus came.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.

Rev 21:5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.

If the new heaven and earth are literal, then, I suppose it will be a repeat of this -

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

That would be kind of funny. We would actually watch the creation of a new earth. :P

This world and heaven (as in sky above) is soon going to go up in nuclear flames. We are literally going to fry everything , even the ozone will be gone.We will strip this planet bare.Not the globe, just the surface and God will have to restore it, if we are to still live here 1000 years. Some will obviously survive this, because that Bible speaks of the unsaved nations being ruled over.

I must say, I really am just speaking my own thoughts about the second earth being done away with. I most probably am wrong about that, but all I know, is that the Bible speaks of a time, where things will not be like they are now.When God will be all in all, might be on this earth, or in some other form of existence. However, we were initially made to immortal on this planet.

 

[researcher]

Actually, if he makes "all things new," that would mean that he makes new people. It would be like Genesis all over again, except there would be no Satan. :o WoW! :D

LOL No, it does not mean , "new people" too, because that is what we are. God has already made the "new creation" in us. That is why Jesus came.
[quote:2fxb772h]
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.

Rev 21:5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.

If the new heaven and earth are literal, then, I suppose it will be a repeat of this -

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

That would be kind of funny. We would actually watch the creation of a new earth. :P

This world and heaven (as in sky above) is soon going to go up in nuclear flames. We are literally going to fry everything , even the ozone will be gone.We will strip this planet bare.Not the globe, just the surface and God will have to restore it, if we are to still live here 1000 years. Some will obviously survive this, because that Bible speaks of the unsaved nations being ruled over.

I must say, I really am just speaking my own thoughts about the second earth being done away with. I most probably am wrong about that, but all I know, is that the Bible speaks of a time, where things will not be like they are now.When God will be all in all, might be on this earth, or in some other form of existence. However, we were initially made to immortal on this planet.[/quote:2fxb772h]

I think I see what you're saying about the first earth passing away, and, the new one also.

Paul said
1Co 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
1Co 7:31 and those that use the world, as not using it to the full: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

Of course, it was obviously a figurative statement, because, it's still here. Some interpret the passing away of the 1st heaven and earth not as literal, but a passing away of the old nature. Could be, I dunno. :D

As for a nuclear war, yeah, probably. Which is why I believe we're in the millenium (the end of it anyway) right now. Actually, the word used for the 1000 years in Revelation is a plural Greek word, which would mean the millenium is 2000 or more. I believe we are at the end of that time, and, going into the Gog/Magog war. And then, it's over. :D

 

[Cornelius]

I base my understanding of the Biblical time-line on "a day is as a thousand years"
1)the days of creation.
2) counting days from Adam to us gives me 6 (we are then in the 7th day now."Sabbath" in other words, that would coincide with it being a thousand years of peace. Although the start of the seventh day still had some "work" attached to it:Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work (not on the sixth as popular belief has it )
3) Then I look at two days after Jesus (second Adam) That would also be called "the third day".

Now when you look at these "days" (a day is as a thousand years , the Bible tells us ) then if look up all scriptures relating to these days, (meaning: third day, or "after six days" or even after two day (I think so, I will look this one up again) then you will see a pattern, that in many cases , there is a prophecy hidden in the text. I can show you, but it will take some careful posting, to link them, so that it makes sense.

Read the story of Jericho and see : six days (6000 years) they walk around the city. On the seventh day (now) they have to walk around seven times (times= 1 year, so its seven years tribulation) look at how the trumpets in that story echo the trumpets in Revelation. There is even a rapture there........"each man went up......" (after the walls fell down)
There are many more examples that follow this pattern, and it is in keeping with "one day is as a thousand years"

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Cornelius
It doesnt appear resercher understands why Jesus rose the third day.
He believes the ressurection of the dead in Christ has already taken place 2000 years ago.

 

[Cornelius]

I found one for "after two days"

Hos 6:2 After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him.

So its it saying, after two thousand years (that would be after Jesus) , on the third millennium after Jesus, He will raise us up and we shall live before Him.
Now that fits perfectly with the other scriptures , plus it then brings us right to Rev 12 the birth of the man child ministry, which will be the "raising up" of the first fruits.

 

[researcher]

I base my understanding of the Biblical time-line on "a day is as a thousand years"
1)the days of creation.
2) counting days from Adam to us gives me 6 (we are then in the 7th day now."Sabbath" in other words, that would coincide with it being a thousand years of peace. Although the start of the seventh day still had some "work" attached to it:Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work (not on the sixth as popular belief has it )
3) Then I look at two days after Jesus (second Adam) That would also be called "the third day".

Now when you look at these "days" (a day is as a thousand years , the Bible tells us ) then if look up all scriptures relating to these days, (meaning: third day, or "after six days" or even after two day (I think so, I will look this one up again) then you will see a pattern, that in many cases , there is a prophecy hidden in the text. I can show you, but it will take some careful posting, to link them, so that it makes sense.

Read the story of Jericho and see : six days (6000 years) they walk around the city. On the seventh day (now) they have to walk around seven times (times= 1 year, so its seven years tribulation) look at how the trumpets in that story echo the trumpets in Revelation. There is even a rapture there........"each man went up......" (after the walls fell down)
There are many more examples that follow this pattern, and it is in keeping with "one day is as a thousand years"

Could be. I dunno. Here's the def's for Rev's 1000's.

Thousand (Plural)
G5507
chilioi
Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.

Thousand (Singular)
G5505
chilias
From G5507; one thousand (“chiliadâ€Â): - thousand.

Chilioi - plural, chilias - singular.

The plural is used in the millenium verses such as -

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Which would read;

Rev 20:7 And when the two thousand years (or more) are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

At any rate, the 7000 year timeline would still fit -

Marriage of the Lamb (Before the Millenium)
Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Bride ruling during the Millenium
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Bride coming down from Heaven after the Millenium
Rev 21:9 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues;
and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high,
and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

If the marriage of the Lamb happens before the millenium, then they rule during the millenium, then come down from heaven after the millenium, that would mean that they were ruling from Heaven, not earth.

Which would place us at - (my words in ( ) )

Rev 20:7 And when the (chilioi (two)) thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth,
and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

Satan currently would be out, and, we would be the saints. (Or some of them at least) :P

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius
It doesnt appear resercher understands why Jesus rose the third day.
He believes the ressurection of the dead in Christ has already taken place 2000 years ago.

There was a resurrection when Jesus died on the cross. Mat 27:52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; Preterism sees something that other Christians do not see and that is that some things in fact has happened before. And they are correct, BUT what preterists miss, is that history repeats Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

There was a tribulation 70 AD and many things that will happen again in the great tribulation , indeed happened before as well, although on a "mini-me" scale. The last one, God says, will be on a scale that surpasses the worst things that has ever happened on this planet.

After this resurrection, John received his vision on Patmos, and we even though people like Lazarus was resurrected and SOME saints too, now we are told about THE resurrection (called the First, because it has to do with the church now ) and then we are told about the LAST , which is the resurrection of the wicked after a thousand years.

 

[Cornelius]

I base my understanding of the Biblical time-line on "a day is as a thousand years"
1)the days of creation.
2) counting days from Adam to us gives me 6 (we are then in the 7th day now."Sabbath" in other words, that would coincide with it being a thousand years of peace. Although the start of the seventh day still had some "work" attached to it:Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work (not on the sixth as popular belief has it )
3) Then I look at two days after Jesus (second Adam) That would also be called "the third day".

Now when you look at these "days" (a day is as a thousand years , the Bible tells us ) then if look up all scriptures relating to these days, (meaning: third day, or "after six days" or even after two day (I think so, I will look this one up again) then you will see a pattern, that in many cases , there is a prophecy hidden in the text. I can show you, but it will take some careful posting, to link them, so that it makes sense.

Read the story of Jericho and see : six days (6000 years) they walk around the city. On the seventh day (now) they have to walk around seven times (times= 1 year, so its seven years tribulation) look at how the trumpets in that story echo the trumpets in Revelation. There is even a rapture there........"each man went up......" (after the walls fell down)
There are many more examples that follow this pattern, and it is in keeping with "one day is as a thousand years"

Could be. I dunno. Here's the def's for Rev's 1000's.

Thousand (Plural)
G5507
chilioi
Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.

Thousand (Singular)
G5505
chilias
From G5507; one thousand (“chiliadâ€Â): - thousand.

Chilioi - plural, chilias - singular.

The plural is used in the millenium verses such as -

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Which would read;

Rev 20:7 And when the two thousand years (or more) are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

At any rate, the 7000 year timeline would still fit -

Marriage of the Lamb (Before the Millenium)
Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Bride ruling during the Millenium
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Bride coming down from Heaven after the Millenium
Rev 21:9 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues;
and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high,
and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

If the marriage of the Lamb happens before the millenium, then they rule during the millenium, then come down from heaven after the millenium, that would mean that they were ruling from Heaven, not earth.

Which would place us at - (my words in ( ) )

Rev 20:7 And when the (chilioi (two)) thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth,
and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

Satan currently would be out, and, we would be the saints. (Or some of them at least) :P

Problem is that we all know that Satan is not out at the moment. I ran into him today

Plus, we also know that the bride is not ruling , she is still full of spots and blemishes.

I did mention before that God "scrambled" Revelation. Its not in chronological order, so we run into some things , mentioned in the end, that in effect happens in the beginning. God tells us He loves to hide things, and then we get the job of searching out the truth.

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

 

[researcher]

Cornelius
It doesnt appear resercher understands why Jesus rose the third day.
He believes the ressurection of the dead in Christ has already taken place 2000 years ago.

Just going by what the Apostles said -

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer:

Heb 10:25 not abandoning [or, neglecting] the assembling together of ourselves, as [is the] habit of some, _but_ encouraging [one another], and so much more as you* see the Day approaching.

Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Rom 13:11 And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed.

Rev 22:12 "Listen! I am coming quickly,

Kind of hard to overlook. They were telling real people that he was coming, right then.

 

[researcher]

Problem is that we all know that Satan is not out at the moment. I ran into him today

Plus, we also know that the bride is not ruling , she is still full of spots and blemishes.

I did mention before that God "scrambled" Revelation. Its not in chronological order, so we run into some things , mentioned in the end, that in effect happens in the beginning. God tells us He loves to hide things, and then we get the job of searching out the truth.

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

No problem. I'm only a recent convert to partial preterism based on it's logic. ;) :D

I just started looking at this -

Satan cast out... of what?

Joh 16:11 of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world:
now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Was he cast out of Heaven, or Earth?

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

Jesus saw Satan fall from Heaven, to... where?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

Rev 12:4 And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child.

So, was he cast out of the earth in (Joh 12:31)? It doesn't seem that way, since, he is described as being on earth after Jesus

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the
unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be watchful: your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,

1Th 2:18 because we would fain have come unto you, I Paul once and again; and Satan hindered us.

Rev 2:13 I know where thou dwellest, even where Satan's throne is; and thou holdest fast my name, and didst not deny my faith, even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Seems Satan was already cast out. If Jesus saw him fall from heaven, then, the disciples write about him being on earth, and, Jesus says his throne was in Pergamum, then, he must have ended up here, quite awhile ago.

 

[Cornelius]

No problem. I'm only a recent convert to partial preterism based on it's logic. ;) :D

I just started looking at this -

Satan cast out... of what?

Joh 16:11 of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged.

Yes, he has been judged, that is what the Bible says.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world:
now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Was he cast out of Heaven, or Earth?

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.

Jesus saw Satan fall from Heaven, to... where?

We have to understand that not all things in the Bible is over and done with, even if the words written say that. With that I mean: God speaks many things BY FAITH. The Bible says things like Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, Now we know that we are only perfect BY FAITH , but not really perfect by manifestation (that is still to come )

Jesus too, sees "the end from the beginning" Once we understand this, then many seemingly contradictory scriptures will make sense. Jesus "sees" Satan fall in our time by faith.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

This above scripture is what Jesus saw, way back then, although this has not happened yet, but it will, because Jesus "saw it" and spoke it.

Rev 12:4 And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child.

Now the man child ministry has definitely not happened yet. Jesus told John in Rev 4 that He is going to show him things "hereafter"

Satan is still the accuser of the brethren, he can and still does enter into heaven to do this, that is why you and I still need an Advocate , to go against his accusations.

 

[researcher]

Thanks C. I'll have to come back to this. Time for some day off chores!

P.S. I still think Jesus came back in 70. ;) :P

 

[Cornelius]

P.S. I still think Jesus came back in 70.

Now that would be a let down I see something so great coming our way.

Do you know, that the Tribulation has another name too? Its called the Wedding Feast.

Tribulation for the world, but the Feast for the people of God. Well we do not have long to wait brother, because even as we speak the door is opening. This economic meltdown is but the start of it. But have no fear, because God has something so vastly superior planned for His own. Its called: Christ in you (that is God's secret weapon ) Why else , did He deposit Christ in us ? God could have left that part out and saved us and taken us to heaven .............but now He did not do that , did He . No.............He placed Christ in us for another reason........

 

[Vic C.]

Thanks C. I'll have to come back to this. Time for some day off chores!

P.S. I still think Jesus came back in 70. ;) :P

Have you considered this?

A.D.70

A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age

Future

The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23392

 

[Shilohsfoal]

[
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer:

Kind of hard to overlook. They were telling real people that he was coming, right then.

What happened to end all things in 70 ad?
Its kind of hard to overlook that the only thing happened in 70 ad was the Romans kicked the jews out of Cannan.I just dont see that as the resurrection.

 

[researcher]

P.S. I still think Jesus came back in 70.

Now that would be a let down I see something so great coming our way.

Do you know, that the Tribulation has another name too? Its called the Wedding Feast.

Tribulation for the world, but the Feast for the people of God. Well we do not have long to wait brother, because even as we speak the door is opening. This economic meltdown is but the start of it. But have no fear, because God has something so vastly superior planned for His own. Its called: Christ in you (that is God's secret weapon ) Why else , did He deposit Christ in us ? God could have left that part out and saved us and taken us to heaven .............but now He did not do that , did He . No.............He placed Christ in us for another reason........

Lol. Actually, I think it would be kind of nice to have him have returned in 70. We would have less to worry about.

As for the marriage feast -

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid heaven, Come and be gathered together unto the great supper of God;

Rev 19:21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, even the sword which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

The angel called all the birds (spirits), and, Jesus killed the armies with the sword (the word of God)

There wouldn't be a literal blood bath, and birds eating flesh. They were killed by the word of God. Which is why the Roman armies lived. If you don't believe the word of God, essentially, your dead, LOL. :D

And the birds -
Mat 13:4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the birds came and devoured them:
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side.

The bird(s) was Satan in Mat 13:4. Birds would be Satan and fallen angels or spirits in the supper also. See Mat 13:31-32 also. Satan (the bird) seeks those he can devour (1Pe 5:8) Also, Jesus told the Pharisees they would be infested with even more evil spirits than they already were in the end - Mat 12:43-45.

As for the Spirit of Christ in us, Yes, there should be a good reason for it being in us. Although, the Spirit was also in the OT prophets (1Pe 1:11), and, the NT believers also. I believe we're supposed to be lights in the world. The Spirit is how we are lights. He manifests in us to the world (sometimes ).

 

[researcher]

Thanks C. I'll have to come back to this. Time for some day off chores!

P.S. I still think Jesus came back in 70. ;) :P

Have you considered this?

A.D.70

A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age

Future

The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23392

Hey Vic. Yup! That's almost exactly what I believe! I would add a Rapture to the 70AD one though (Mat 24:31). Jesus said it would happen in their generation (Mat 24:34). Which is why I'm a "no-tribber" I don't think there will be anymore raptures. Should have happened already. Although, I suppose there could still be a rapture at the last war (fire from heaven one). I'm more of the mind that the Spirit will keep us safe in-place though. I have no idea how or when we will be changed into our new bodies. But yes, the above is almost verbatim what I believe.

 

[researcher]

[
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer:

Kind of hard to overlook. They were telling real people that he was coming, right then.

What happened to end all things in 70 ad?
Its kind of hard to overlook that the only thing happened in 70 ad was the Romans kicked the jews out of Cannan.I just dont see that as the resurrection.

Maybe Peter meant -

1Co 7:31 and those that use the world, as not using it to the full: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

Everything didn't end in 70AD. But, something was ending. The nature of that world, at that time.
Who knows.

As for the resurrection -

Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

If the angels gathered the elect in that generation like Jesus said, then, the dead in Christ would have gone before them. That would be the resurrection.

We weren't there, so, we don't know what happened.

 

[4thangelofEuphrates]

I am no bible scholar, and I don't study it day in and day out, because I believe
that God's will is to love others even if they hate you, and strive to live your life
according to the ten commandments, and to know that no one is better then
another. So below is some of my thoughts the way I see it, according to what
I have seen, heard, and read. They are not written in stone, just thoughts.

First thought for all:
When Jesus said to his disciples that all these things (tribulations ) shall come
to pass unto ( this generation.) When Jesus said ( this generation ) I wonder if
he even meant a baby that was just born, because the baby also would have
been part of ( this generation.) And if so you could say the baby lived to be at
least 100 years old, then the Tribulations could have lasted from the time
Jesus was crucified + 100 years. So that could mean about 30 to 130 AD.

Second thought for all:
See we all look at the holy land for signs to tell us when and were we are in the
bible and Rev. and it is because the bible focuses on mainly the holy land, but if
you also look outside the holy land I have to believe there are clues there also.
Reason being is the seven plagues where poured out unto earth and some of the
plagues effected more then just the holy land, as where those things that came
from the seven trumpets.

Third Thought for all:
In the bible from what I have read, only Elijah and maybe one or two others were
actually took to heaven while they were still alive. In the rest of the bible you hear
they were resurrected from the dead, meaning they were killed before they were
took to heaven. Even the ones in Rev. 20 were beheaded. So I believe that the
144,000 were also killed first before they were taken to heaven, For I haven't found
where it says the 144,000 were lifted up to heaven alive as Elijah was. Even the
multitude that were saved after 144,000 I have not found where they were lifted up
to heaven like Elijah. So is the so called rapture really so, I believe it is, but how
many and who are raised up like Elijah was will more and likely be very
few people, and I stress very few people.

Fourth thought for all:
I believe satan and his angels were cast out of heaven not long after Jesus was
crucified. I believe that after satan was cast out of heaven he became the head of
the Roman's and was the one that ordered the siege on Jerusalem. The war with
the remnant of her seed. Now also where did the rest of Satan's angels go that
were also kick out of heaven when Satan was kick out, well unto earth, but where
did they appear on earth that is the question? This is why the first thought also
goes with the lost civilizations, for the stone people statues on Easter Island were
dated to about 130 AD. or just before, as were the pyramid temples in belize and
the pyramids in Egypt. So next question is were did the people go and what
happened to them, for they all disappeared about the same time and no one
knows for sure what happened to all these people, for only legends of what
happened exist, why is there no one that can understand and read the writings
that were left behind, for they have just in the past 100 years are being understand
and interpreted and still they are guessing on some of it.

Fifth thought for all:
I heard that John of Rev. that they really do not know who he really is and only
believe he was a prisoner on the Island of Patmose, for there is no record of
his past generation ( family tree ) to verify who he is. So who is to say John
didn't actually write Rev. sooner and was not added to the bible until later, or
someone seeking to change time placed it at the end of the bible. For if you
move revelations closer to the beginning of the NT then it seems to all fall into
place of what Rev. is talking about, This is just a thought.

Sixth thought for all:
Rev. 20 the ones that are with God and Jesus are those that were
beheaded and they are the ones that reign for a thousand years. Now if thats
so then they are in the Spiritual world and how would you know they were there
unless you were also living in the spiritual world as also the rest of the dead for
they are dead, so how do you know that it has not already happened. Now the
question is who is the rest of the dead who live not again until the thousand
years are finished? and as you can see this is after the first war. So who are
the ( rest of the dead? ) for the first war was against the followers of Satan and
the false prophet and they were the ones that were killed and if it was not them
then it means those that followed God and were killed they are the rest of the
dead, so it don't look like there was a rapture for those of Rev 20. So another
question is how many are in ( the rest of the dead?) surely it wasn't the whole
earth, but could it have been more then 2/3 of the earth? And were in the bible
does it say there will be ( peace for a thousand years for ( the whole earth?) For
the will of God is to save the lost as also protect the unlost. So then why would
God destroy all the lost people in the first war, I don't believe he did.

I will end with that for now, don't want to overload on thoughts. LOL