The only Higher education

[whirlwind]

so let me get this right, i being a christian, are less bold then you or lest trusting in the Lord than you? You dont know me and i dont know you, only through the means of the internet do we communicate.
Have you been to war, worried that you may die, or seen the fellow soldiers serve drown in river, beg the Lord to save them, and none of them died. I guess that isnt trust.

jason

I hope one day you'll give us that testimony in detail Jason....it sounds wonderful.

God bless

 

[Heidi]

Again, good post, Joe. I've found very few who are willing to stand up for the word of God if they're in the minority. But that's the sign of the true Christian. Jesus tells us that few will find the narrow road. And you're as rare as I am. Zero scripture tells us to place our trust in man. But few care. I do and so do you. It's a blessing to see.

so let me get this right, i being a christian, are less bold then you or lest trusting in the Lord than you? You dont know me and i dont know you, only through the means of the internet do we communicate.
Have you been to war, worried that you may die, or seen the fellow soldiers serve drown in river, beg the Lord to save them, and none of them died. I guess that isnt trust.

Would you want a doctor to use only the bible when he or she goes in to repair or remove damaged organs,tissues, because only the bible is true wisdom, NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE BIBLE DOESNT HAVE WISDOM AT ALLOR ISNT THE ULMATAE REVALATION.IT ISNT MEANT TO BE A SCIENCE BOOK OR ANY OTHER THING THAN A LOVE LETTER FROM GOD. What I'm saying is that god gives gifts and abilities to man to be used for the blessing to man and ultimately the Lord, science is one of those things, and like all things man abuses it.

God gave us a mind and we can use it to reason and think, being an intellectual and in christ are not incompatible. Look at the apostle paul, he was taught by jewish scholars and he also understood the other cultures around him. Yet he did reason when it could be.

jason

Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot be both. And those who are against Christ are not only wrong, they are anti-Christs as 1 John 2:22 says, and thus not intelligent. That includes secular teachers.

I have no idea what you do outside of this forum. All I know is that most people in this thread don't agree with the bible that we should not put our trust in man. That's a fact. That's why this thread has gone on so long.

So it's a fact that standing up for God's word is rare which is precisely why the majority of Christians in the world don't believe that the bible is the word of God or that Jesus is the only way to God. I read the stats in the newspaper not too long ago on that and a whopping 83% of those who claim to be Christians do not believe that Jesus is the only way to God. So people who stand up for the word of God are[b] rare[/b] as the stats show. If you want to be included in that minority, then instead of using your "human" wisdom which is contrary to the Spirit, you need to use God's wisdom which comes from the Holy Spirit and you will always be right.

 

[stovebolts]

Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot be both. And those who are against Christ are not only wrong, they are anti-Christs as 1 John 2:22 says, and thus not intelligent. That includes secular teachers.

Jesus also said that he was the truth and scripture states that the whole world is full of God's glory. Tell me then, can a secular teacher teach truth?

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Thus, it should not be so odd that truth surrounds us and when we see truth, we should think on these things. Paul even quotes truth from secular sources...
Titus 1:12 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

Why does Paul quote a Cretan prophet? If the Cretian prophet is a liar, would his statement also be a lie, thus, all Creatians are truthful, merciful etc? Are we then to conclude that this prophet really is not from Crete and if not, why does Paul credit him as being a Cretian prophet? Is Paul lying?

I have no idea what you do outside of this forum. All I know is that most people in this thread don't agree with the bible that we should not put our trust in man. That's a fact. That's why this thread has gone on so long.

And you want us to to put our trust in your opinion? Perhaps Heidi, and I do hope you'll ponder this thought, but maybe, just maybe it's not about putting out trust in man, but sifting and sorting and testing all things and laying siege to all truth and claiming it as ours...

So it's a fact that standing up for God's word is rare which is precisely why the majority of Christians in the world don't believe that the bible is the word of God or that Jesus is the only way to God. I read the stats in the newspaper not too long ago on that and a whopping 83% of those who claim to be Christians do not believe that Jesus is the only way to God. So people who stand up for the word of God are[b] rare[/b] as the stats show. If you want to be included in that minority, then instead of using your "human" wisdom which is contrary to the Spirit, you need to use God's wisdom which comes from the Holy Spirit and you will always be right.

You read the stats in the newspaper?... and you say that we are not to put our trust in man? Think about what you just said.

1. Is the newspaper inspired?
2. Is the newspaper telling the truth?
3. If the newspaper it right, and it's not inspired, is it still true?
4. If it is true, and it doesn't come from the Bible, can we claim that truth?

Yes Heidi, the whole world is full of God's glory... and as such, you may just find truth in the oddest places. ;)

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Again, good post, Joe. I've found very few who are willing to stand up for the word of God if they're in the minority. But that's the sign of the true Christian. Jesus tells us that few will find the narrow road. And you're as rare as I am. Zero scripture tells us to place our trust in man. But few care. I do and so do you. It's a blessing to see.

so let me get this right, i being a christian, are less bold then you or lest trusting in the Lord than you? You dont know me and i dont know you, only through the means of the internet do we communicate.
Have you been to war, worried that you may die, or seen the fellow soldiers serve drown in river, beg the Lord to save them, and none of them died. I guess that isnt trust.

Would you want a doctor to use only the bible when he or she goes in to repair or remove damaged organs,tissues, because only the bible is true wisdom, NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE BIBLE DOESNT HAVE WISDOM AT ALLOR ISNT THE ULMATAE REVALATION.IT ISNT MEANT TO BE A SCIENCE BOOK OR ANY OTHER THING THAN A LOVE LETTER FROM GOD. What I'm saying is that god gives gifts and abilities to man to be used for the blessing to man and ultimately the Lord, science is one of those things, and like all things man abuses it.

God gave us a mind and we can use it to reason and think, being an intellectual and in christ are not incompatible. Look at the apostle paul, he was taught by jewish scholars and he also understood the other cultures around him. Yet he did reason when it could be.

jason

Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot be both. And those who are against Christ are not only wrong, they are anti-Christs as 1 John 2:22 says, and thus not intelligent. That includes secular teachers.

I have no idea what you do outside of this forum. All I know is that most people in this thread don't agree with the bible that we should not put our trust in man. That's a fact. That's why this thread has gone on so long.

So it's a fact that standing up for God's word is rare which is precisely why the majority of Christians in the world don't believe that the bible is the word of God or that Jesus is the only way to God. I read the stats in the newspaper not too long ago on that and a whopping 83% of those who claim to be Christians do not believe that Jesus is the only way to God. So people who stand up for the word of God are[b] rare[/b] as the stats show. If you want to be included in that minority, then instead of using your "human" wisdom which is contrary to the Spirit, you need to use God's wisdom which comes from the Holy Spirit and you will always be right.

You are really stretching here Heidi. Not putting one's trust in man and educating yourself are not as clearly linked as you would like us to think. How can we live in this world and not educate ourselves so we can operate within it to further God's Kingdom. It would be impossible. If all Christians shunned higher education, as you would suggest, then the people of power would be 100% secular. Christians would not be respected and as a result would dwindle in number. That is not what God or Jesus wants. They want us to spread the good news and do so in a way and fashion that brings people to Christ. Higher education is essential to provide us the tools we need to do this.

This is a great example of how I feel you are misinterpretting scripture. Again, show us where it specifically states that we should not educate ourselves. You believe that the bible is 100% literal so knowing how adamant you are about this you must have gotten the direct passage from the bible somewhere. Show us.

 

[Sparkey]

Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot be both. And those who are against Christ are not only wrong, they are anti-Christs...

Jesus is with you Heidi? Really?

Why did he say, "For he that is not against us is on our part." --> meaning "He who is not against us is with us."

Please read the following carefully and word by word. Check to see if I changed anything. Ya never know until you check, right? It wouldn't do to just take my word for it, right?

But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

But Jesus said, ""Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.""

And John answered and said, "Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us." And Jesus said unto him, "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

I am inviting our Father <that we may behold both His goodness and His severity> into this conversation even now.
:amen

The Word of God says: Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

• [list:2vcgt6i8]
• Sparrow says: Followers of Christ are called to be servants and to serve Him by extending our service to His Body - that is to say, "to the church," that is also to say, "to us")

[/*:m:2vcgt6i8][/list:u:2vcgt6i8]
The Word of God says: Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

• [list:2vcgt6i8]
• Sparrow says: Those who are called of God to teach (like my friend the Sunday School teacher) are allowed to learn and perform well in all things while following the calling of God to that service. It is folly to say that Teachers should be uneducated <or even under-educated>. Utter folly.

[/*:m:2vcgt6i8][/list:u:2vcgt6i8]
The Word of God says: With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. Eph 6:5-8 (KJV)

When I said above, "Jesus is with you Heidi? Really?" pray understand that I did not say that Jesus was not with you, but asked this in confirmation of what you have previously declared,

"I quote and believe scripture because Christ is my only teacher. ;) But when my beliefs disagree with scripture, then I'm speaking on my own and my words are not trustworthy. "He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself...."

[attachment=0:2vcgt6i8]Spiting_Himself1.JPG[/attachment:2vcgt6i8]

Climb in from the branch that you've crawled out on. Do not climb out onto a branch then proceed to cut the branch from the tree. That's bad 'cause you'll hurt yourself. Is money evil? Or is it the love of money?? I am sure you know already and that I'm preaching to the choir here. Is education evil in and of itself? No, not if we trust in God. It is only sin when we put our trust in our education and place it as an idol before Him. Believe it or not, listening to deceiving spirits and believing that we can prophecy and become the very mouth of God here on earth --prior to the Lord God setting us into that office can also be sin. It is not only knowledge that puffeth up-eth.

No, I am not admonishing you to stop chasing after the Gift of Prophecy but trying to correct you in a meek manner while maintaining a good spirit toward you. Yes, continue to ask the Lord to show you His ways, continue to seek to speak His word and desire His righteousness. Yes, follow after your God with all of your heart as you have been called to do so. Yes, follow after Paul even as he follows after God and yes, tell others to follow after you even as you follow after your Lord, our Father and God of all Heaven.

Yes, be bold in your declarations and Yes, continue to speak the Word of Truth even as if you are an Oracle of the Lord of Hosts. Yes, continue to speak with authority, this is exactly what Jesus did and we are to follow closely in those footsteps, the very footsteps of Christ our King! Yes, consider the truth in the admonishment that we are given in the Scriptures - That we are to be likeminded to our Jesus who did not consider it robbery to what? To count himself equal with God.

Huh? What did I say? Did I tell you that you are God? No, I didn't. Neither does the Scripture. We don't know what we shall be but we shall be like Him. We are not there yet and I am celebrating the fact that you are running toward our Father God and doing so publicly. It is perfectable acceptably to run to Him who calls us and to follow the narrow path --even to run along a tightrope and to do so in such a manner that others may see it and exclaim, "Ohhhhh.... my! I could never do such a thing [except as the Lord allows]"

As you do this and even as you strive to do this I am here to support your effort. I am also aware that my thoughts are the same as our Father in this and that He wants you to do well even more than me. He is also able to speak to you by way of the Teacher (the Holy Spirit) and Comforter (also the Holy Spirit) and to do such without any taint of sin -- because the Holy Spirit is indeed Holy and utterly separate from sin (and not like me --that is to say, that I'm not holy like He is <yet>) and that I need to simply leave it at that, and not upbraid you nor chastise you and certainly not do so publicly except as you need it.

Fair enuf?

I like your signature and pay compliment by way of copy-catting it:
Yours in Christ,
Sparrowhawke

PS - I'm so carnal, as soon as I make a rule I also must break a rule: Now stop calling our brothers and sisters in Christ the ugly name "Anti-Christ" just because they don't agree with your purposefully provocative statement. It's silly.

 

[jasoncran]

I guess that i cant be a doctor,physicts,lawyer, and enginner in your opinion, but wait what was the writer of acts and Luke called, hmmm let's see the beloved Physician, maybe that's a little joke, not sure.

I thought all day how to answer you ,but i wont you are right in your own eyes.

whirlwind , i will post that testimony later.

jason

 

[Heidi]

[

quote]Jesus is with you Heidi? Really?

Really. But that's not what Jesus said. Jesus didn't say that "Jesus is with Heidi". He said; "He who is not with me is against me." The "me" meaning Jesus.

 

[Sparkey]

Jesus is with you Heidi? Really?

Really. But that's not what Jesus said. Jesus didn't say that "Jesus is with Heidi". He said; "He who is not with me is against me." The "me" meaning Jesus.

You sure do have an "ear filter" on don't 'cha?
I wrote 1,153 words, 4,763 characters.
It had illustrations!
Methinks you're edit button is overly used there. Why even pretend to quote me? Silliness again.

Here then for reference a link to the reply you so amply truncated <or should I say amputated> :
He who is not against us is FOR US! Praise the Lord!

If you are going to amputate on my posting I would appreciate some "higher education" on your part. Surgeons are required to take 8 years and more of diligent study and they do less damage to their victims than you do. I am not saying this to offend but consider the fact that I am certainly not lying against the truth either. We need to commit to stepping back from even the appearance of bitterness here. We, meaning each member who posts in this thread, yes?

~Sparrow

But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

 

[Free]

Surgeons are required to take 8 years and more of diligent study

Surgeons, anesthesiologists, nurses, GPs, EMTs, dentists, pharmacists, physios, chiros,....I am very glad they all take post-secondary education to learn what they do.

Did you purposely use "surgeons" because you used "amputate"?

 

[Sparkey]

Surgeons are required to take 8 years and more of diligent study

Surgeons, anesthesiologists, nurses, GPs, EMTs, dentists, pharmacists, physios, chiros,....I am very glad they all take post-secondary education to learn what they do.

Did you purposely use "surgeons" because you used "amputate"?

Hi, Free! Yes. It was on purpose. Sorry, just my uneducated attempt at humor. Some don't like my sense of humour (another medical reference) too much. It goes over their caput [Latin for 'head'].

On another note: <from the department of This Just IN:>

• 
  [list:103ksi8j]Is that a bomb strapped to your forehead?
  by Itamar Eichner --Published: Israel Jewish Scene
  A Jewish passenger on a Chicago train was arrested after fellow passengers accused him of being a suicide bomber.
  
  The incident took place on a train that left Chicago early in the morning – when Jewish men are obligated to put on tefillin (phylacteries). The passenger began strapping the head-tefillin to his forehead and passengers unfamiliar with the custom rushed to the conductor and told him there was a man on board who was fastening a box to his head with wires dangling from it."
  
  The conductor approached the passenger but the latter refused to answer him as he was in the middle of the prayer, heightening the conductor's suspicions.
  
  Meanwhile, the passengers grew even more frantic when they noticed that the passenger sitting next to the Jewish man had a Middle-Eastern appearance and wore a turban.
  
  "That was too much," said the Bob Byrd, NICTD chief of security.
  
  The passengers panicked and the engine driver stopped the train. Police officers rushed into the train with a bomb-sniffing dog.
  
  Police investigators soon realized their mistake and apologized to the passenger.
  
  "This incident has given us all an opportunity to learn about other religions and their customs," said the chief of security.

[/list:u:103ksi8j][attachment=1:103ksi8j]phylacteries.jpg[/attachment:103ksi8j]

Tefillin, (Hebrew: תפילין‎) are also called phylacteries and Jesus criticized Pharisees for their ostentatious use. The criticism found in Matthew 23:5 was not for following the law but was given because their hidden purpose: "for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments..."
[attachment=0:103ksi8j]phylacteries1.jpg[/attachment:103ksi8j]
I'll leave it to the reader to draw the meaning and if the shoe fits, wear it. Typically the phylacteries were worn for prayer only but the Pharisees wore them continually and they made larger boxes than was was needed to hold the parchment(s) upon which was written sections of the Law. The use of boxes larger than ordinary to attract attention of the people (and not God) is what was denounced by the Savior. They were accused of "making broad their phylacteries". Jesus did not condemn them for the wearing but for the ostentation connected with their overt and public use. They became badges of vanity and hypocrisy.

~Sparrowhawke

[Edited to delete the pancake head bunny and to correct typo's and punctuation mistakes]

 

[Free]

Hi, Free! Yes. It was on purpose. Sorry, just my uneducated attempt at humor.

I was only checking because I got a chuckle out of it.

Is that a serious news story!? Wow. What a little knowledge would have been able to clear up in seconds...

 

[Heidi]

So, does anyone here think that doctors, scientists and pundits know more than God does? :gah

 

[Sparkey]

Heidi,

I commend you for departing the stance of your first position.
I do appreciate your change in tone.
Yes, of course you are correct - God knows more. I can certainly agree.

~Sparrow

So, does anyone here think that doctors, scientists and pundits know more than God does?

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

I commend you for departing the stance of your first position.
I do appreciate your change in tone.
Yes, of course you are correct - God knows more. I can certainly agree.

~Sparrow

So, does anyone here think that doctors, scientists and pundits know more than God does?

Wrong. That's why you haven't explained how I have done that. Once again, I ask you; do you think that doctors, scientists and pundits know better than God does?

 

[Sparkey]

Huh?

I thought I agreed with you?

~Sparrow

 

[Heidi]

Actually, don't bother. It really is pointless to get some people to believe the bible. Since you think that Jesus is wrong when he says that we have one teacher and that is Christ, that'll be on your conscience not mine. Since you don't believe Jesus, then you won't believe me either. Christ's words are not to be tampered with, played with, twisted or changed. Unfortunately, judging by all the people who argue wih the bible, most people don't care. But I do. So I have no desire to listen to people try to prove him wrong because you're fighting a losing battle. Oh, you might get the praises of others who want you to disagree with Jesus, especially the secular world. But they can't help you on your deathbed so those praises will be very short-lived. It really is disturbing to listen to people say they believe Jesus but spend most of their lives trying to dispute or change his words. It doesn't befit people who call themselves Christians.

 

[Sparkey]

Actually, don't bother. It really is pointless to get some people to believe the bible. Since you think that Jesus is wrong when he says that we have one teacher and that is Christ, that'll be on your conscience not mine. Since you don't believe Jesus, then you won't believe me either. Christ's words are not to be tampered with, played with, twisted or changed. Unfortunately, judging by all the people who argue wih the bible, most people don't care. But I do. So I have no desire to listen to people try to prove him wrong because you're fighting a losing battle. Oh, you might get the praises of others who want you to disagree with Jesus, especially the secular world. But they can't help you on your deathbed so those praises will be very short-lived. It really is disturbing to listen to people say they believe Jesus but spend most of their lives trying to dispute or change his words. It doesn't befit people who call themselves Christians.

Again with the "deathbed" Heidi?
Yes, I remember your Prophecy and the curse you think God gave you to utter against me. There is no need to repeat it. I also remember from just a couple pages ago when you implied that those who disagree with Jesus (as defined herein by you) are anti-christ also.

Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot be both. And those who are against Christ are not only wrong, they are anti-Christs as 1 John 2:22 says, and thus not intelligent. That includes secular teachers.

Wow. When you tell me "don't bother replying" I will take that to mean that you no longer care for this discussion to continue. I don't know how else to understand some of the things you say.

!Sparhawke

 

[Heidi]

And I remember from just a couple pages ago when you implied that those who disagree with Jesus (as defined herein by you) are anti-christ also.

Actually, that isn't defined by me, it comes also from God, not me. 1 John 2:22 "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the anti-Christ-he denies the Father and Son."

So disagreeing with Jesus is also denying that he is divine and perfect. So I can see that you don't even read the bible much less see Jesus as an authority. No wonder you disagree with him when he says we have one teacher and that is Christ! That means you are not a follower of Christ since you believe he is a liar. As John tells us; "Such a man is the anti-Christ." "He who is not with me is against me." You can't think that Jesus is telling the truth and not telling the truth at the same time. That's a house divided against itself. Those who disagree with Christ are anti-Christ because anti means against.

 

[Heidi]

Actually, don't bother. It really is pointless to get some people to believe the bible. Since you think that Jesus is wrong when he says that we have one teacher and that is Christ, that'll be on your conscience not mine. Since you don't believe Jesus, then you won't believe me either. Christ's words are not to be tampered with, played with, twisted or changed. Unfortunately, judging by all the people who argue wih the bible, most people don't care. But I do. So I have no desire to listen to people try to prove him wrong because you're fighting a losing battle. Oh, you might get the praises of others who want you to disagree with Jesus, especially the secular world. But they can't help you on your deathbed so those praises will be very short-lived. It really is disturbing to listen to people say they believe Jesus but spend most of their lives trying to dispute or change his words. It doesn't befit people who call themselves Christians.

Again with the "deathbed" Heidi?
Yes, I remember your Prophecy and the curse you think God gave you to utter against me. There is no need to repeat it. I also remember from just a couple pages ago when you implied that those who disagree with Jesus (as defined herein by you) are anti-christ also.

Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." One cannot be both. And those who are against Christ are not only wrong, they are anti-Christs as 1 John 2:22 says, and thus not intelligent. That includes secular teachers.

Wow. When you tell me "don't bother replying" I will take that to mean that you no longer care for this discussion to continue. I don't know how else to understand some of the things you say.

!Sparhawke

I no longer want to hear your blasphemy of Jesus, by thinking that any man knows better than he does all the while calling yourself a Christian. that's a wolf in sheep's clothing. So yes, I want to stay away from them.

 

[Sparkey]

Actually, that isn't defined by me, it comes also from God, not me.

Your "prophecy" so-called was defined by you though, wasn't it?
My objection to the Prophecy (so called)

I've been told by many that my gift is prophecy. But I don't want it because it's costly. Nevertheless, God's gifts and his call are irrevocable, so there's nothing I can do about it. Prophets tend to come off strong. We have to in order to endure the persecution we'll have to endure to speak the word of God. No one would choose to be hated unless the word of God is so strong in his heart that he can't hold it in. That's what Jeremiah felt and I can completely identify.
From page 6

I think you are eminently qualified to teach about certain subjects (for instance you know yourself far better than I do) so when you say, "But when my beliefs disagree with scripture, then I'm speaking on my own and my words are not trustworthy," frankly I believe you.

I wonder why you flip-flop when you speak of me so much though.
Once you said, "What a heartfelt and humble post. I think the problem we Christians all have is that we are constantly surrounded by the lies of Satan." <<---- Did you notice that when addressing me you said, "I think the problem we Christians all have is..."
I did.

Another time you said, "But my calling isn't worldly so I don't pursue worldly knowledge, only Godly knowledge. So I stay away from the universities. One can't trust worldly knowledge because it comes from the fallible human mind. But we can always trust godly knowledge because it comes from the mind of God. That's the point I'm trying to make."

If you would stick to this sort of thing we would have no controversy. When you go over the line is when I must needs object. Please try to see this.

~Sparrowhawke

PS As far as "blasphemy" goes you may read my post again, what I said (and I quote) is:
"Yes, of course you are correct - God knows more. I can certainly agree."
I agreed that God knows more than "doctors, scientists and pundits" so there is no blasphemy and you are again falsely accusing me. For the record, I do come in the Name of Jesus here and have invited God to witness the interactions between His children. I do believe that you are a called child of God and also Proclaim that (Heidi) Your Redeemer is strong!

~Sparrow