ezrider
Member
What does that have to do with Adam's transgression? If you take the time for yourself to actually think upon the story of Adam, the answer should become obvious.
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The Passover of God
- Thread starter ezrider
- Start date
What does that have to do with Adam's transgression? If you take the time for yourself to actually think upon the story of Adam, the answer should become obvious.
Jethro Bodine
Member
You're trying to make Adam's sin more than what it really is.
He was told not to do something, but he did it anyway. That's called disobedience. He was guilty of being disobedient.
In the same way, we do what God has said not to do. In the case of Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, we are not to keep it for the purpose of trying to be declared righteous. Paul explains we can only be declared righteous by having our unrighteousness removed through forgiveness, and having Christ's righteousness credited to our account.
ezrider
Member
Adam's transgression has nothing to do with his disobedience. Can you not tell me what Adam did after he disobeyed?
Jethro Bodine
Member
It has everything to do with his disobedience. They are one and the same. Disobedience IS transgression. He was cursed because he transgressed by eating the fruit that he was commanded not to eat (Genesis 3:17 NASB).
He saw he was naked.
He hid from God.
He blamed Eve.
He was afraid.
He made a covering for the shame of his nakedness with leaves.
ezrider
Member
Jethro Bodine
Member
Sorry, but that is not what got Adam kicked out of the garden. He ate the fruit in disobedience and he paid the price for it.
His attempt to cover his shame, like everything else he did after he sinned, is the result of having disobeyed God's command. Him covering up with fig leaves is not the only thing he did wrong after falling, yet you say that one particular thing is THE sin and transgression of Adam. I could just as easily build a doctrine and say his lying, or his fear, or his hiding from God was THE transgression of Adam, but that would be just as wrong as saying his attempt to cover himself was THE sin of Adam.
The sin of Adam was not obeying the commandment given to him:
"8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
10 and thiscommandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
11 for sin,taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful."
(Romans 7:8-13 NASB)
His underlying sin nature--his nakedness--was provoked and exposed by the commandment 'do not eat of the tree'.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Now, back to this:
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)
Is Paul telling us to commit the sin of Adam as you have defined that? Yes, or no?
I see Paul telling us to keep the commandment in a right and fitting way (not abolish it as something evil and sinful)--Christ as the Passover Lamb, and the casting out of sin as the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The wrong and unfitting way to keep the commandment is to do it in the way of the old covenant in the hope of being declared righteous for doing it. The purpose of that way that God commanded was to expose the nakedness of our sin nature and lead us to obedience through faith in Christ, not to make us righteous as many thought it was given to do.
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)
Is Paul telling us to commit the sin of Adam as you have defined that? Yes, or no?
I see Paul telling us to keep the commandment in a right and fitting way (not abolish it as something evil and sinful)--Christ as the Passover Lamb, and the casting out of sin as the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The wrong and unfitting way to keep the commandment is to do it in the way of the old covenant in the hope of being declared righteous for doing it. The purpose of that way that God commanded was to expose the nakedness of our sin nature and lead us to obedience through faith in Christ, not to make us righteous as many thought it was given to do.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Even if Adam had not disobeyed and eaten, he was still naked. His disobedience given the opportunity to come forth by the commandment is how he found that out. The commandment or the tree is not what was evil. All it did was expose Adam's nakedness, but so many people think the commandment/ tree is what was evil.
When we get clothed in Christ and the shameful nakedness of our sin nature covered up we then keep (actually uphold) the commands of God, not discard and abolish them. If Adam was clothed in Christ he would have kept the command to not eat, not discarded it.
Was Adam clothed so he could now disobey the commands of God? No, of course.
Deborah13
Member
Was he still under a covenant of works? I believe he was. I believe they had to make continual sacrifices for sin. Noah made these sacrifices of clean animals and so did Job.
I don't know what Adam's personal relationship with God looked like. Abel's was good, Cain's stunk. Noah's was good. Elihu and God straightened Job out. As far as being a righteous man, he was excellent but he thought that his works were what earned him the right to call on God. I imagine that by the time God got done talking to him, he felt microscopic and he had nothing to fall back on but the grace of God.
I haven't heard anyone in this thread say that God's grace gives someone permission to sin. God doesn't give people permission to sin, does He? That would be counter productive, how ridiculous is that?
ezrider
Member
Adam was given a commandment, Do not eat of the tree of knowledge; for in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die.
Adam ate and then made himself a covering to Hide from the Lord, the hide from his death.
The Lord said unto Adam, Who told you that that you were naked. The Same might be said of the covering that he made to hide from the presence of the Lord. Who told Him that He need a covering to Hide himself from Death? Was it the fruit of knowledge? Or the whispering serpent. Either way, Adam took unto himself a covering to Hide from the presence of the Lord and his certain death.
Then because Adam had brought Death into the world, the Lord provided Adam with a covering to protect him from the penalty of His Death. That the Angel of His death might continue to pass by. This is what is celebrated with the Jewish Passover. The sprinkling of blood as a covering so that the Angel of Death would pass them by. The covering given to Adam as he was driven from the garden so that He might survive by the Grace of God in the valley of the shadow of Death.
The Sin of Adam's transgression was he took to himself a covering that he might hide his transgression from the presence of the Lord. If the first mad Adam brought Death into the World, likewise the second man Adam brought Life into the world. The covering was to protect me from from death in the face of my transgression. Why do I need a covering to hide from His Life. How long shall you continue to taste of the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
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ezrider
Member
You are to purge out the old leaven, which is the doctrine of the Pharisees and the law of Moses to that you can be a new lump filled with the Spirit that gives Life. You can not put old wine into new wineskin.
Deborah13
Member
That is your story about Adam's transgression. Where is the scripture to defend what you say?
How long will you continue to accuse the brethren of walking in the flesh?
Jethro Bodine
Member
Cut to the chase. If I'm doing what Paul says to do in the passage below--and I am--am I guilty of continuing to taste of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and trying to artificially cover up death and nakedness, and hiding from Life?
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)
Am I putting new wine into old wine skins if I do what Paul says above? Yes, or no?
Sinthesis
Member
The fig leaf aprons were to cover Adam's and Eve's nakedness, of which they were ashamed, and of which they were only aware of as being not good(evil) because they had eaten of the TotKoGaE. I've never heard that the aprons were camouflage from God and Death before. In any case that supposed transgression is still secondary to the eating from the tree, and never given as a reason for any of the resultant curses.
Notice that God Himself provides skin clothing (necessitating a substitutionary death) to replace the fig leaf clothing of man's own works.
ezrider
Member
Not that I am accusing them, but if that is how they feel, so be it. How long shall I continue? I don't know, not my call. Maybe when they begin to understand the truth of His Grace and the nature of his "second" coming.
ezrider
Member
Then tell me. How do you clean out the old leaven? What is it you think you are cleaning out?
ezrider
Member
Starts at Genesis 1:1 and continues on until Revelation 22:21. It not a singular passage, its the story of the scripture. It is that which has been revealed through Faith through His Spirit.
Tell me, why is Adam's transgression set aside from all others?
Deborah13
Member
There would be no point in me even trying to answer this question because I don't agree with your deductions. If we could compare our interpretations of scripture then it might be edifying.
ezrider
Member
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
All of the petty sins of the flesh are nothing compared to the sin of Adam's transgression. Death reigned from Adam to Moses. even over those who had NOT SINNED after the Sin of Adam's Transgression. Adam's Sin gave birth to Death; our petty sins in the flesh only reveal death in us, our petty sins do create death. Our petty sins in the flesh only serve to Blind us to the Sin of Adam's transgression. Who took unto himself a covering that He might hide from the presence of the Lord.
If I am in Christ, and He in me; then why should I require a covering to protect me from the angel of death? I have acknowledge my sin before Christ and have accepted the penalty of my sin and of my death, and by all Faith I have been judge and forgiven, I have been brought into His death, so that I might live unto God in the presence of His Spirit. It is hard enough at times to hear His Voice, knowing with full assurance that I have been established in His Grace, I will stand in His Light without a covering that I should not hide from his presence.