The Passover of God

[Jethro Bodine]

You find no practical value because you mock what you hear, nor do you listen with the intent to hear anything of value.

I'm not mocking it. I'm calling if false because it does not agree with scripture.

How does your doctrine cause me to live a righteous life?
I know how mine does.

You are like uto a Pharisee who can think to do nothing other that contend over a point in the Law.

If only you knew the error of judgment you make about me. If only you knew.
But I'll leave it between you and God to sort out

Mods, you don't have to delete what he wrote. I can deal with it.

 

[Deborah13]

Nobody can make grace a license to indulge sin with impunity. Mankind only thinks grace is a license to sin now that we're under grace. That's why we're told not to do that--grace is not a license to sin. You condemn yourself when you say that grace makes it so we can sin freely and it doesn't matter because of grace.

Is that what you hear ezrider saying? I don't.

 

[Deborah13]

Jethro Bodine Try really hard, to imagine that You believe that you cannot lose your salvation. Would you go on sinning freely? If so, why? If not, why?

 

[Sinthesis]

I understand this fully. I have accepted His one time sacrifice and atonement for sin for all time, including the transgression of Adam, which is the one sin that threatens our salvation. I try and draw a distinction between His Blood and His Grace because the valley is large, but those two mountains cast a long shadow.

Being that it was a one time event in the which all of my sins have been forgiven me, then I have accepted that as a fact. Therefore I do not dwell on my sins that I should need them to be covered in His Blood, I know by Faith they are already forgiven me. I do not have to ask, therefore I walk in the Grace that has been given me, with the full assurance that all of my sins are forgiven me, so by that knowledge I may come before the Lord with an open and honest heart ready to receive instruction in His Righteousness by the sin that I can bring before Him that he may teach me, trusting to His Grace through Faith.

The distinction is not between His Blood and His Grace, because these are inseparable. Rather the covenantal distinction is between (His Blood and His Grace) vs (creature blood and His Mercy).

 

[evenifigoalone]

1) Give other members the respect you would have them give to yourself. (ToS 2.4)
Address issues/ideas, not persons or personalities. Do not insult, publicly post derogatory opinions of others, post insinuation to belittle or discredit, or otherwise create a hostile environment. Present evidence for support or rebuttal during debate. Bashing the author of another view or opinion is not evidence.

Best to rely on Scriptural evidence rather than rhetoric.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is that what you hear ezrider saying? I don't.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he won't address anything leveled against his argument so I can only guess at what the bottom line of his argument is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine Try really hard, to imagine that You believe that you cannot lose your salvation. Would you go on sinning freely? If so, why? If not, why?

Purely hypothetical, but if God can't see my sin, even the sin of unbelief, because Christ's righteousness is in the way I would have absolutely no reason whatsoever to not resort to inconsequential sin to get through this life--you know, so-called 'victim-less sin'. Now you tell me why you would not do that, if that be the case with you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Since you like to bask in the shadow of the Mountain that gave unto the world the Law of Moses and His Covenant with death, then tell me what it says in your law about eating dead things and unclean? For if I am dead to the Law by Christ who was crucified for my sins under that law, why do then do you circle like a vulture ready to tear at a piece of my flesh that you may devour it?

Let's ask Paul...

"7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be anew lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)

I post this because what he's saying represents everything I 'bask' in about the old covenant. Was Paul a Pharisee? Well, yes, I know he was a Pharisee, lol, but was he one the way you judging me to be because of what he wrote above?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I should qualify that statement so there is no misunderstanding. There is but one sin that remains unto the charge of man, and it is a sin not covered by the blood of Christ. I should qualify that by saying forgiveness is found in the blood of Christ, but it is a charge that is not held of account to His Blood. It is a sin that you still bear on your own, and if you reject His promise, then He has told you that it is a sin that can not be forgiven. The sin of Adam's transgression.

Disobedience? No, I'm pretty sure disobedience can be forgiven by the blood of Christ.

 

[ezrider]

I have mentioned it several times and yet no one has brought it up or shown any curiosity as to what I might be talking about; so I will ask it directly.

What was the sin of Adam's transgression?
Why might Adam's transgression be the one sin that can not be forgiven you?

 

[Deborah13]

Purely hypothetical, but if God can't see my sin, even the sin of unbelief, because Christ's righteousness is in the way I would have absolutely no reason whatsoever to not resort to inconsequential sin to get through this life--you know, so-called 'victim-less sin'. Now you tell me why you would not do that, if that be the case with you.

I don't know that the Father can't see it, I just believe it's already been forgiven. I think when scripture says He throws them as far as the east is from the west it means He doesn't see them for judgement as far as salvation is concerned. But we know we can grieve the Holy Spirit and I would think that He gets angry at times, too. And will use the rod if He needs to as discipline.
This doesn't cause me to want to mess around in any kind of sin. Just the opposite, it makes me more grateful because I know I don't deserve it. Besides sin is sin, it's not healthy for me or anyone else in my life. What is 'victim-less sin' ? Is that like picky your nose when nobody is looking?

 

[jasonc]

Why do Christians celebrate the Passover? Of what significance is the Passover to them?

What is the significance of the Passover as recorded in the Old Testament and why were they commanded to remember it?

The Passover of God as recorded in the book of Exodus is an event that commemorates the children of Israel leaving the land of Egypt. In the original Passover event, the children of Israel were to take a lamb and slaughter it, and they were to paint the blood upon the door posts as a sign, so that when the Angel of Death came upon them he would pass them if he saw the blood upon the door posts.

It seems like many Christians today celebrate Passover by placing Jesus as their Passover Lamb, and they imagine his blood being painted up on the door posts of their mind protecting them, that the Angel of Death might continue pass them by.

But I ask, in light of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, should we continue to be applying his blood in the same manner as the blood of the Passover Lamb, in that it protects us from the angel of death? The Passover as it was remembered in the book of Exodus was an old covenant remembrance, should that same remembrance apply toward those under the new covenant?

There is a scripture in the book of Jeremiah that describes a time in which the Lord would no longer be remembered as the Lord who brought up the children of Israel out from land of Egypt.

Jeremiah 23:5-8 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord our Righteousness. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

So if the Lord saith they shall no longer say the Lord liveth which brought up the children out of the land of Egypt, then why do Christians still attempt to celebrate him as one still bringing the children up out of the land of Egypt?

The significance of the blood of the Passover lamb was that it would cause the Angel of Death to pass you by. Much the same as the annual sacrifice under the Old Testament laws, where a sacrifice was offered once yearly to cover the sins of the people, that the Angel of Death might be stayed. But is that what the blood of Christ does for us? Is that how we continue to use the sacrifice and the blood of Christ?

In the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, do we use his to blood keep the Angel of Death from us? For in his death and resurrection we are baptized into his Death, crucified with him on the cross. Christ has become the angel of death for us, that through his death we might partake of his resurrected life. Jesus said in the Gospels, those who seek to save their lives, shall lose it; those who lose their lives for his sake shall find it.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it

How long will you continue to use the sacrifice of Christ as a covering for your sins so that the Angel of Death might pass you, hoping to stay death until your Lord returns for you. But we are not under the old covenant, we are under the new covenant: We are under the covenant of Grace. The covenant of grace requires no covering for your sin, or it would not be Grace.

So as a Christian living under the new covenant, of what benefit is the remembrance of Passover to you?

interesting never saw that in Jeramiah until now. futurists need to heed that part. one can look at peshac and see grace in the torah. the idea of peshac is the birth of the nation. remember that in Egypt, the Hebrew nation was in bondage. God redeemed them from Egypt and they did become a nation.

 

[ezrider]

A young child is instructed to not put its hand in the fire or it might get burned. The child then carries the knowledge of that instruction without any understanding, for the child does not know what it means to get burned. But with the knowledge of that fire without any understanding, the child reaches out and touches the flame, to discover what it means to get burned. What the child learns is pain and discomfort, but eventually grace prevails and the wounds heal, but knowledge has now been coupled with understanding because of disobedience. And in this disobedience comes the desire to not do it again.

Now if I were to insist that we must hold our hands over the candle that we might be burned to prove ourselves in any way, or to stand up and lead a racist chant on a bus that I might be approved of by my peers: well then we have a problem. But do not prevent the Grace of God because you like to glory in sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now if I were to insist that we must hold our hands over the candle that we might be burned to prove ourselves in any way, or to stand up and lead a racist chant on a bus that I might be approved of by my peers: well then we have a problem. But do not prevent the Grace of God because you like to glory in sin.

2

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't know that the Father can't see it, I just believe it's already been forgiven. I think when scripture says He throws them as far as the east is from the west it means He doesn't see them for judgement as far as salvation is concerned. But we know we can grieve the Holy Spirit and I would think that He gets angry at times, too. And will use the rod if He needs to as discipline.
This doesn't cause me to want to mess around in any kind of sin. Just the opposite, it makes me more grateful because I know I don't deserve it. Besides sin is sin, it's not healthy for me or anyone else in my life. What is 'victim-less sin' ? Is that like picky your nose when nobody is looking?

Deborah, I really don't feel like revisiting all this again until I know exactly what his doctrine is driving at concerning grace. Ezrider won't address specific scriptures in my posts, and that's the only way I'll figure out what the practical application of his doctrine is in regard to the Passover and the grace of God, so I'm bowing out until something moves forward here.

At his point, all I know is I handle all things old covenant the way Paul does and that ezrider thinks that's not only sinful, but damnable.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now if I were to insist that we must hold our hands over the candle that we might be burned to prove ourselves in any way, or to stand up and lead a racist chant on a bus that I might be approved of by my peers: well then we have a problem. But do not prevent the Grace of God because you like to glory in sin.

(I'll give it a stab, but if the scriptures I post continue to be ignored, then I'm out.)

In the following passage, are you saying Paul is telling us we must be disobedient and hold our hands over the candle of the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread to prove ourselves, but by doing that you say we prevent (pervert?) grace and are glorying in sin?

7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be anew lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)

 

[ezrider]

Ezrider won't address specific scriptures in my posts, and that's the only way I'll figure out what the practical application of his doctrine is in regard to the Passover and the grace of God, so I'm bowing out until something moves forward here.

If you can answer the question that I have asked, then you might see for yourself how it all connects together; but the question is are you willing to look for yourself.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression.

What was the sin of Adam's transgression?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you can answer the question that I have asked, then you might see for yourself how it all connects together; but the question is are you willing to look for yourself.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression.

What was the sin of Adam's transgression?

He disobeyed the command of God.

 

[ezrider]

He disobeyed the command of God.

Please try and think a little deeper, and in context with the discussion concerning the Passover blood.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please try and think a little deeper, and in context with the discussion concerning the Passover blood.

In this covenant, one is disobedient to God concerning Passover/ Feast of Unleavened Bread when they do it for the purpose of justification.