The Passover of God

[ezrider]

Isaiah 30:1-3
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord,
that take counsel, but not of me;
and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin:
That walk to go down into Egypt,
and have not asked at my mouth;
to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh,
and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!
Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame,
and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What is it you think you are cleaning out?

The leaven of sin. This sin:

19 ...immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these...
(Galatians 5:19-21 NASB)

Then tell me. How do you clean out the old leaven?

"...by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body..."
(Romans 8:13 NASB)


So, am I sinning Adam's sin as you have presented here in this thread when I 'keep' the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread as Paul talks about that below?

7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)

Yes, or no?

 

[ezrider]

The leaven of sin. This sin:

19 ...immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these...
(Galatians 5:19-21 NASB)


"...by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body..."
(Romans 8:13 NASB)


So, am I sinning Adam's sin as you have presented here in this thread when I 'keep' the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread as Paul talks about that below?

7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)

Yes, or no?

Was it a sin for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath?

 

[ezrider]

The leaven of sin.

Sin is not the leaven. The Sin is already in the lump. The Leaven is the acting agent that causes the lump, in this case Sin, to grow and rise. The leaven as Jesus called it is the doctrine of the Pharisees. In other words, and as Paul has written, it is the Law that manifests sin and death in us. That is the old leaven you should purge.

 

[ezrider]

Jethro Bodine, Deborah13, is there ever a time when you will no longer need the blood as your covering?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sin is not the leaven. The Sin is already in the lump. The Leaven is the acting agent that causes the lump, in this case Sin, to grow and rise. The leaven as Jesus called it is the doctrine of the Pharisees. In other words, and as Paul has written, it is the Law that manifests sin and death in us. That is the old leaven you should purge.

The context defies your interpretation. Where is remove the 'law keeper' in the passage?

11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler -not even to eat with such a one.
13 ...REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES *.
1 Corinthians 5:11,13 NASB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine, Deborah13, is there ever a time when you will no longer need the blood as your covering?

Not in this age.

My righteousness is not sufficient to rescue me from the wrath of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Was it a sin for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath?

No.

If one is allowed to pull a donkey out of a ditch on the Sabbath then how much more is it okay to heal a son or daughter of Abraham on the Sabbath?

 

[ezrider]

Not in this age.

My righteousness is not sufficient to rescue me from the wrath of God.

If not in this age, then when?

 

[Deborah13]

Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Adam, broke the covenant he and God had, it was a covenant of works (law), penalty death.
I'm just going to give you a quote from Adam Clarke's Commentary. Romans 5:12-14
1. That sin was in the world from Adam to Moses.
2. That law was not in the world from Adam to Moses during the space of about 2500 years; for, after Adam’s transgression, that law was abrogated; and, from that time, men were either under the general covenant of grace given to Adam or Noah, or under that which was specially made with Abraham.
3. That, therefore, the sins committed were not imputed unto them to death, for they did not sin after the similitude of Adam’s transgression; that is, they did not, like him, transgress a law, or rule of action, to which death, as the penalty, was annexed. And yet -
4. Death reigned over mankind during the period between Adam and Moses; therefore men did not die for their own transgressions, but in consequence of Adam’s one transgression.

This explanation of that scripture makes sense to me.

 

[ezrider]

Adam, broke the covenant he and God had, it was a covenant of works (law), penalty death.

Why would you say Adam broke a covenant of Law, with the penalty of death. Why would you characterized it as a it as a covenant of works? I do not know of where in the scripture Adam was referred to as being in a Covenant, but if he were, then it would have been a covenant of Grace. For Adam was given to eat freely of every tree that was in the midst of the Garden. He was only commanded to not eat of the tree of Knowledge. If not by Knowledge, then Adam was to live a covenant of Faith. Does that sound much different that we are told. The Just shall live by Faith, and we too have but one sin that remains unto death. The "unforgivable" sin.

The Penalty for his transgression was death, yet death was not imputed unto Adam, for with the knowledge that lead to Adam covering himself to hide from the presence of the Lord, it would appear to me that the Lord had mercy upon Adam, and in turn gave Adam a covering that would cause the Angel of Death to pass over.

The Passover is in a sense the remeberance of the Grace and Mercy of God by the covering given unto Adam, an offering of the blood of a lamb so that the Angel of Death would pass by. So that they might believe in the power of the Lord. But what was to happen, and then what did happen to the Children of Israel when they came before the Mountain of God? They rejected His Spirit, and made themselves a covenant with death, feeding upon the tree of knowledge.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why would you say Adam broke a covenant of Law, with the penalty of death. Why would you characterized it as a it as a covenant of works? I do not know of where in the scripture Adam was referred to as being in a Covenant, but if he were, then it would have been a covenant of Grace. For Adam was given to eat freely of every tree that was in the midst of the Garden. He was only commanded to not eat of the tree of Knowledge. If not by Knowledge, then Adam was to live a covenant of Faith. Does that sound much different that we are told. The Just shall live by Faith, and we too have but one sin that remains unto death. The "unforgivable" sin.

The Penalty for his transgression was death, yet death was not imputed unto Adam, for with the knowledge that lead to Adam covering himself to hide from the presence of the Lord, it would appear to me that the Lord had mercy upon Adam, and in turn gave Adam a covering that would cause the Angel of Death to pass over.

The Passover is in a sense the remeberance of the Grace and Mercy of God by the covering given unto Adam, an offering of the blood of a lamb so that the Angel of Death would pass by. So that they might believe in the power of the Lord. But what was to happen, and then what did happen to the Children of Israel when they came before the Mountain of God? They rejected His Spirit, and made themselves a covenant with death, feeding upon the tree of knowledge.

Sinful mankind not knowing he is sinful is somehow a good, life-giving thing?
It is God's will and plan that mankind come to faith through a knowledge of their sins via the law first.
The church needs to stop robbing people of this important step towards salvation.

 

[ezrider]

Sinful mankind not knowing he is sinful is somehow a good, life-giving thing?
It is God's will and plan that mankind come to faith through a knowledge of their sins via the law first.

Why do you think that the fruit of KNOWLEDGE can give you life? The tree of knowledge, the knowledge of sin can only bring death. The knowledge of that death causes me to seek Christ and my salvation. Once I have come to my salvation and the Knowledge of Christ within me, he gives me of His Faith that I may walk by His Faith, which then becomes my Faith; If I walk by Faith and am justified by Faith, of what value is the law of works and sin and death to me?

Romans 4:13-15 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 6:20-23 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Romans 8:1-8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

I could go on and on with similar scripture, but you have your Bible, there is no need for me to post any more scripture or else I might just quote the entire new testament. Why do you try so hard to resist the truth, that you come to such a point that gives appearance that you are rejecting the gospel message?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why do you think that the fruit of KNOWLEDGE can give you life?

I didn't say it does. But everyone who wants to have life has to die first.

If I walk by Faith and am justified by Faith, of what value is the law of works and sin and death to me?

In this New Covenant, why is the New Testament full of so much teaching on how we Christians should live?
I find it interesting how so many grace/faith people who rant against the law are so oblivious to the fact that so much written counsel, much of it right out of the law, has been given to the New Covenant church. A church that, supposedly, doesn't need that because 'we live by faith'. Me thinks some people simply do not know what it means to live by faith.

 

[ezrider]

I find it interesting how so many grace/faith people who rant against the law are so oblivious to the fact that so much written counsel, much of it right out of the law, has been given to the New Covenant church.

Isaiah 30:1-3
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord,
that take counsel, but not of me;
and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin:

2 Corinthians 3:3-6
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God- ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious.

Isaiah 28:14-16
Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men,
that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves.
Therefore thus saith the Lord God,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.

Genesis 4:4-6 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

I have tasted of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but I find find the fruit of the tree of Life to be of no comparison. Whisper as you like that it is something I need for my salvation. But I have everything that I need already given me. Peddle your fruit as you may, but I know the difference.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Isaiah 30:1-3
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord,
that take counsel, but not of me;
and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin:

2 Corinthians 3:3-6
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God- ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious.

Isaiah 28:14-16
Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men,
that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves.
Therefore thus saith the Lord God,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.

Genesis 4:4-6 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

I have tasted of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but I find find the fruit of the tree of Life to be of no comparison. Whisper as you like that it is something I need for my salvation. But I have everything that I need already given me. Peddle your fruit as you may, but I know the difference.

Since when do Christians not need knowledge?
I think you need more knowledge concerning the topic of knowledge.

"5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge..." (2 Peter 1:5 NIV)

 

[ezrider]

Since when do Christians not need knowledge?
I think you need more knowledge concerning the topic of knowledge.

"5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge..." (2 Peter 1:5 NIV)

Galatians 3:21-25 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

By your logic, I should wonder if you really understand what it means to live be Faith?

 

[ezrider]

Galatians 3:21-25 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

By your logic, I should wonder if you really understand what it means to live be Faith?

What did Jesus promise to send unto them which believe?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Galatians 3:21-25 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

By your logic, I should wonder if you really understand what it means to live be Faith?

What's the difference between these two written pieces of knowledge...

"15" '...do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great,..." (Leviticus 19:15 NIV)

and this....

"1 My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism (to the rich--see context)." (James 2:1 NIV parenthesis mine)

Why is the first one disdained because it is considered the evil, fleshly way of the law, but the second one not? What's the difference? Is James teaching the sinful way of the law--the way of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil--to the church? Or is it, as I suggest, some people simply do not know what 'by faith' vs. 'by law' means, and that eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not symbolic of the partaking of the knowledge of good and evil from the law?

 

[ezrider]

What's the difference between these two written pieces of knowledge...

"15" '...do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great,..." (Leviticus 19:15 NIV)

and this....

"1 My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism (to the rich--see context)." (James 2:1 NIV parenthesis mine)

Why is the first one disdained because it is considered the evil, fleshly way of the law, but the second one not? What's the difference? Is James teaching the sinful way of the law--the way of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil--to the church? Or is it, as I suggest, some people simply do not know what 'by faith' vs. 'by law' means, and that eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not symbolic of the partaking of the knowledge of good and evil from the law?

What would happen to your faith if you could not read your Bible for several years? What would you believe about God then? Do you think that you would be able to speak clearer about the scriptures than the day you last read them after all those years had past? What would you do without your Bible? Without a Bible, do you think you can still hear the word of God?