The pretrib fib

[watchman F]

Watchman

When are you going to answer the questions I put forth to you ?

What is a soul ?

Show from scripture where the soul and the body meet up at some point !

What is a mortal body ?

#1 Are you a soul sleep believer or do you believe the sould goes to Heaven when we die.

#2 You do not know what a mortal body is?

Hi Watchman

This conversation is not going anywhere. The reason it is not going anywhere is because of your refusal to answer questions, and reply in a manner that is based upon logic.

One - When I ask you a question, people who want a logical conversation will give an answer.

Two - When someone gets close enough to a part of the topic that you disagree with, you totally avoid answering.

Three - The lack of logic in your replies shows that you are hiding something. The more we squeeze that which you are hiding out of you, the more exposed your untruths become. So you avoid as much as possible that which will expose those things you are hiding.

Okay, so far this is what we have squeezed out of you >

The soul goes to heaven ( But you will not show scripture, thus only your opinion or religious belief)

The soul meets up with the raised body at some point in time (Again , no scripture, opinion or religious belief)

You mention the word "Mortal" and have no idea what the word means. So you ignore answering because of your lack or inability to answer with any reasonable and logical reply.

You believe in the theory that when you die, you don't really die, you just go to heaven < And even though these are not your own words, this is what you are saying, by telling us that at some point after you die, the soul goes to heaven.

You refuse to define soul , as it will reveal more of your ignorance on this subject, so you avoid answering at all cost.

You refuse to define what the word "Mortal" means for the same reason. It will reveal more of your ignorance and will also reveal the untruth you are proposing within this thread.

Actually it is going nowhere because you refuse to answer questions or produce biblical support for your false belief. I have already proved my belief biblically now you do likewise if you can.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Watchman

Well, that is fine if you do not want to continue with the conversation. God has called us to peace.

However, it does leave me to believe that your refusal to answer my questions. Means that you either can not answer them, or if you do give an answer, your theory will fall apart. Which is something you can't handle at this time.

When you give it more thought, and time, maybe you can discuss this further with me.

Take care

IN Christ - MM

 

[watchman F]

Hi Watchman

Well, that is fine if you do not want to continue with the conversation. God has called us to peace.

However, it does leave me to believe that your refusal to answer my questions. Means that you either can not answer them, or if you do give an answer, your theory will fall apart. Which is something you can't handle at this time.

When you give it more thought, and time, maybe you can discuss this further with me.

Take care

IN Christ - MM

Listen I do not need to be interrogated by you , while you refuse to answer anything i ask or provide any proof for your false belief. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a quiz on what a soul is or the meaning of mortal. If you do not know the difference between mortal and immortal then you do not need to be in the conversation any way.

Now if you can answer this question..... are you a soul sleep believe or do you believe the soul of a believer goes to Heaven when they die? Then we might be able to move forward.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Watchman

Well, that is fine if you do not want to continue with the conversation. God has called us to peace.

However, it does leave me to believe that your refusal to answer my questions. Means that you either can not answer them, or if you do give an answer, your theory will fall apart. Which is something you can't handle at this time.

When you give it more thought, and time, maybe you can discuss this further with me.

Take care

IN Christ - MM

Listen I do not need to be interrogated by you , while you refuse to answer anything i ask or provide any proof for your false belief. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a quiz on what a soul is or the meaning of mortal. If you do not know the difference between mortal and immortal then you do not need to be in the conversation any way.

Now if you can answer this question..... are you a soul sleep believe or do you believe the soul of a believer goes to Heaven when they die? Then we might be able to move forward.

Hi Watchman

Sorry, but it is you that is on a train heading only in one direction.

You refuse to answer any of my questions, but you want me to anwer your questions.

This conversation will "only" continue if you start answering some of my questions that I have directed towards you !

Peace and take care

And, if you change your mind, just let me know , okay ?

IN Christ - MM

 

[watchman F]

Hi Watchman

Well, that is fine if you do not want to continue with the conversation. God has called us to peace.

However, it does leave me to believe that your refusal to answer my questions. Means that you either can not answer them, or if you do give an answer, your theory will fall apart. Which is something you can't handle at this time.

When you give it more thought, and time, maybe you can discuss this further with me.

Take care

IN Christ - MM

Listen I do not need to be interrogated by you , while you refuse to answer anything i ask or provide any proof for your false belief. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a quiz on what a soul is or the meaning of mortal. If you do not know the difference between mortal and immortal then you do not need to be in the conversation any way.

Now if you can answer this question..... are you a soul sleep believe or do you believe the soul of a believer goes to Heaven when they die? Then we might be able to move forward.

Hi Watchman

Sorry, but it is you that is on a train heading only in one direction.

You refuse to answer any of my questions, but you want me to anwer your questions.

This conversation will "only" continue if you start answering some of my questions that I have directed towards you !

Peace and take care

And, if you change your mind, just let me know , okay ?

IN Christ - MM

Well if you cannot tell me if you are a soul sleep believer or not or provide a single verse to support the idea of a pretrib rapture then I guess we have nothing to talk about.

 

[Vic C.]

That's fine with me :D since that is another topic altogether. :yes

 

[watchman F]

That's fine with me :D since that is another topic altogether. :yes

I agree soul sleep is another subject Vic, but I was explaining to MM, how the dead are the ones gathered from Heaven not the raptured, and the living are gathered from earth at the post trib 2nd coming. MM seemed to believe that was impossible and wanted me to tell him what a soul was. So before I got into what a soul was I wanted to k now his stance on soul sleep to help me understand his position on the dead not being in Heaven. Even though it is off subject it does pertain to the convo. However MM thinks he is an interrogater rather than in a back and forth discussion.

 

[Vic C.]

Thanks for explaining. I now see why this line of questioning. :yes

May I play devil's advocate for a moment? :D

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

You see, I sometimes struggle with the way soul and spirit are sometimes interchanged, because I see them as separate. I kind of see it as the Jews did. They believe the soul is the very life force of a person; hence the soul is "in the blood". As C.S. lewis said, "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

They also believe the dead are awaken and their loved ones are reunited with them.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

Add the Christian aspect of transformation and you have what is commonly called, the rapture.

 

[veteran]

Wow. I'm still stunned.

The Day of The Lord has not happened yet. You are just ignoring the Scriptures I posted. Joel 2:31 only happens ONCE in the Bible. It has not happened yet. Revelation's 6th Seal is clearly the fulfillment of Joel 2:31 and Isiah 2. That is the day of The Lord. The Sun turns dark and the moon turns to BLOOD. This is a one time event. You are clearly just ignoring this because you cannot reconcile it with your theology. The 6th Seal is the fulfilment of Isaiah 2. It's just that simple. This point alone disproves your theory. The Day of The Lord commences at the 6th Seal.

What have I ignored? You have disproved nothing. The "day of the Lord" is an expression that occurs many times in the Old Testament; the Jeremiah example was about historical Babylon, but it does serve as a Bible blueprint for the very last one too. I also covered that point. The seal events are not in order like the seven trumpets are. Some of those sixth seal events are covered on the seventh trump. The last three trumpets we know are in order, because our Lord Jesus gave three 'woe' periods along with the last three trumpets. The woe periods start at the end of Rev.8 and end in Rev.11. Within that you'll see the sun and moon darkened in part.

You're vain attempt to argue the sixth seal about the sun and moon turning dark proves nothing, for that event happens when Christ returns to gather His saints AFTER the tribulation, as written...

Mark 13:22-27
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(KJV)

If the Pre-Trib theory is correct, then what is that event of Christ sending His angels to gather His elect doing there AFTER the tribulation? Did our Lord Jesus mess up with that order? Did He forget the proper order or something? No, He did not.

Christ's warning in verse 15 is for believers to avoid having to go through all of this. Notice he says keepeth his garments. Look at the 5th Seal of Revelation. The souls of martyrs. What are they given? Robes to wear. The multitude that suddenly appears in heaven in chapter 7 are all wearing their robes. They are the raptured saints. They have keep their garments. Christ is telling this to John in the first century. So he is including a warning just like He did in Matt 24.

You're totally wrong again, and are just regurgitating the lies the pre-trib theorists have taught you. The souls on the fifth seal are under the altar in the heavenly because they WERE KILLED. They are even told to rest yet for a little season, until THEIR BRETHREN are likewise killed as they were.

Rev 6:11
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.(KJV)

Again, is that a message to seek to escape tribulation to save one's own soul, or is it to be ready in Christ Jesus to suffer through tribulation unto Victory? It's the latter. In Rev.7:9, same idea, as those washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb, having come out of great tribulation. That means they were NOT RAPTURED prior to that great tribulation mentioned there. Anyway, the Rev.7:9 forward verses are a forward look in time anyway, the time when the River of the waters of life is established with Christ and His elect priests reigning with Him on Mount Zion, i.e., Milennium timing. How is it you missed all that?

Actually those verses from Matthew show that there is no example for the Day of The Lord. It is not like any event before it. But we can and will escape. And that's what Jesus says in Luke 21:36. Which you also have not addressed.

The way we 'escape' the tribulation is by being protected with our Lord's covering to go through it. Our Lord Jesus never meant a literal physical escape off this earth to keep from going through the tribulation, simple because He showed His coming and gathering of us is AFTER the tribulation. Can't just take that one verse of Luke 21:36 and add a lie that goes against what He already showed in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. That Luke 21:36 verse is actually about the time of God's wrath getting ready to happen, and lo, the saints are shown to still be there on the earth!

Luke 21:25-28
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
(KJV)

That's actually showing the saints still here on earth just prior to God's wrath being poured out upon the wicked. That's why our Lord warned to be watching for those signs, while still on the earth!

Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(KJV)

Matt 24:26-28
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

For the sake of others I'll explain. In the Luke 17 example, Christ's discples EVENTUALLY ask Him just "Where, Lord?", that first one taken would be taken... to. He says wheresoever the body is, that's where the eagles will be gathered. WOW! That's THE RAPTURE, isn't it!? Wait a minute.... Then in the Matthew 24 version of that gathering to the eagles, He says wheresoever THE CARCASE (dead body) is, that's... where the eagles will be gathered! Along with that Matt.24:24-28 example He shows how some are deceived by 'a pseudo Christ' ("false Christs" in Matt.24:24 is Greek 'pseudochristos'), when He warned when some begin saying, He's in the desert, or in the secret chambers, to "believe it not"!

You have completely jumbled up Scriptures. This is the passage I am quoting (in context):

Matthew 24: 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

This is the rapture. I know that when Jesus references the carcass earlier in Matthew 24 he's talking about the antichrist. But the passage I am citing is clearly not related to that point. They are two different points but the Gospel writers record information in very different ways (and sometimes out of order) so things can get confusing. Hence the different rendering in Luke. But when examining Matthew this passage is clearly describing the rapture.

I jumbled nothing, nor skipped. I covered the first one taken in the field idea you mentioned before which is ALSO in Luke 17, which is WHY you didn't finish the idea our Lord was teaching about that. Don't like those Luke 17:37 and Matt.24:28 verses, do you? They totally destroy the idea of the first one taken being raptured by Christ. That shows you'd rather have only 'pieces' of God's Truth, instead of seeking the whole Loaf of Bread of God's Word. The Pre-Trib theory requires only 'pieces' of God's Word to sound correct.

 

[watchman F]

Thanks for explaining. I now see why this line of questioning. :yes

May I play devil's advocate for a moment? :D

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

You see, I sometimes struggle with the way soul and spirit are sometimes interchanged, because I see them as separate. I kind of see it as the Jews did. They believe the soul is the very life force of a person; hence the soul is "in the blood". As C.S. lewis said, "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

They also believe the dead are awaken and their loved ones are reunited with them.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

Add the Christian aspect of transformation and you have what is commonly called, the rapture.

Yes I agree, and I would agree with Eccl 12:7 the body turns to dust while our souls returns to God (if we are saved that is). However like you said that is another discussion, but scripture does show that the dead in Christ return with Him from Heaven and are raise from the graves as He is returning ''1st Thess 4:13-18''. The question is how can these both be true, and the answer is right there in Ecclesiastes. The souls of the dead return with Christ from heaven with there bodies are changed into new immortal perfected bodies and rise from the grave to reunite with their souls in the air were they will continue with Christ as He descend to earth right after the living meet them and Jesus, as the living will too be changed into immortal perfected bodies and meet the Lord in the air. This is what MM cannot accept. However scripture proves it to be true.

 

[watchman F]

Wow. I'm still stunned.

The Day of The Lord has not happened yet. You are just ignoring the Scriptures I posted. Joel 2:31 only happens ONCE in the Bible. It has not happened yet. Revelation's 6th Seal is clearly the fulfillment of Joel 2:31 and Isiah 2. That is the day of The Lord. The Sun turns dark and the moon turns to BLOOD. This is a one time event. You are clearly just ignoring this because you cannot reconcile it with your theology. The 6th Seal is the fulfilment of Isaiah 2. It's just that simple. This point alone disproves your theory. The Day of The Lord commences at the 6th Seal.

What have I ignored? You have disproved nothing. The "day of the Lord" is an expression that occurs many times in the Old Testament; the Jeremiah example was about historical Babylon, but it does serve as a Bible blueprint for the very last one too. I also covered that point. The seal events are not in order like the seven trumpets are. Some of those sixth seal events are covered on the seventh trump. The last three trumpets we know are in order, because our Lord Jesus gave three 'woe' periods along with the last three trumpets. The woe periods start at the end of Rev.8 and end in Rev.11. Within that you'll see the sun and moon darkened in part.

You're vain attempt to argue the sixth seal about the sun and moon turning dark proves nothing, for that event happens when Christ returns to gather His saints AFTER the tribulation, as written...

Mark 13:22-27
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(KJV)

If the Pre-Trib theory is correct, then what is that event of Christ sending His angels to gather His elect doing there AFTER the tribulation? Did our Lord Jesus mess up with that order? Did He forget the proper order or something? No, He did not.

Christ's warning in verse 15 is for believers to avoid having to go through all of this. Notice he says keepeth his garments. Look at the 5th Seal of Revelation. The souls of martyrs. What are they given? Robes to wear. The multitude that suddenly appears in heaven in chapter 7 are all wearing their robes. They are the raptured saints. They have keep their garments. Christ is telling this to John in the first century. So he is including a warning just like He did in Matt 24.

You're totally wrong again, and are just regurgitating the lies the pre-trib theorists have taught you. The souls on the fifth seal are under the altar in the heavenly because they WERE KILLED. They are even told to rest yet for a little season, until THEIR BRETHREN are likewise killed as they were.

Rev 6:11
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.(KJV)

Again, is that a message to seek to escape tribulation to save one's own soul, or is it to be ready in Christ Jesus to suffer through tribulation unto Victory? It's the latter. In Rev.7:9, same idea, as those washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb, having come out of great tribulation. That means they were NOT RAPTURED prior to that great tribulation mentioned there. Anyway, the Rev.7:9 forward verses are a forward look in time anyway, the time when the River of the waters of life is established with Christ and His elect priests reigning with Him on Mount Zion, i.e., Milennium timing. How is it you missed all that?

[quote:2ylekqof]Actually those verses from Matthew show that there is no example for the Day of The Lord. It is not like any event before it. But we can and will escape. And that's what Jesus says in Luke 21:36. Which you also have not addressed.

The way we 'escape' the tribulation is by being protected with our Lord's covering to go through it. Our Lord Jesus never meant a literal physical escape off this earth to keep from going through the tribulation, simple because He showed His coming and gathering of us is AFTER the tribulation. Can't just take that one verse of Luke 21:36 and add a lie that goes against what He already showed in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. That Luke 21:36 verse is actually about the time of God's wrath getting ready to happen, and lo, the saints are shown to still be there on the earth!

Luke 21:25-28
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
(KJV)

That's actually showing the saints still here on earth just prior to God's wrath being poured out upon the wicked. That's why our Lord warned to be watching for those signs, while still on the earth!

Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(KJV)

Matt 24:26-28
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

For the sake of others I'll explain. In the Luke 17 example, Christ's discples EVENTUALLY ask Him just "Where, Lord?", that first one taken would be taken... to. He says wheresoever the body is, that's where the eagles will be gathered. WOW! That's THE RAPTURE, isn't it!? Wait a minute.... Then in the Matthew 24 version of that gathering to the eagles, He says wheresoever THE CARCASE (dead body) is, that's... where the eagles will be gathered! Along with that Matt.24:24-28 example He shows how some are deceived by 'a pseudo Christ' ("false Christs" in Matt.24:24 is Greek 'pseudochristos'), when He warned when some begin saying, He's in the desert, or in the secret chambers, to "believe it not"!

You have completely jumbled up Scriptures. This is the passage I am quoting (in context):

Matthew 24: 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

This is the rapture. I know that when Jesus references the carcass earlier in Matthew 24 he's talking about the antichrist. But the passage I am citing is clearly not related to that point. They are two different points but the Gospel writers record information in very different ways (and sometimes out of order) so things can get confusing. Hence the different rendering in Luke. But when examining Matthew this passage is clearly describing the rapture.[/quote:2ylekqof]

I jumbled nothing, nor skipped. I covered the first one taken in the field idea you mentioned before which is ALSO in Luke 17, which is WHY you didn't finish the idea our Lord was teaching about that. Don't like those Luke 17:37 and Matt.24:28 verses, do you? They totally destroy the idea of the first one taken being raptured by Christ. That shows you'd rather have only 'pieces' of God's Truth, instead of seeking the whole Loaf of Bread of God's Word. The Pre-Trib theory requires only 'pieces' of God's Word to sound correct.

Excellent post veteran.

 

[Mysteryman]

Thanks for explaining. I now see why this line of questioning. :yes

May I play devil's advocate for a moment? :D

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

You see, I sometimes struggle with the way soul and spirit are sometimes interchanged, because I see them as separate. I kind of see it as the Jews did. They believe the soul is the very life force of a person; hence the soul is "in the blood". As C.S. lewis said, "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

They also believe the dead are awaken and their loved ones are reunited with them.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

Add the Christian aspect of transformation and you have what is commonly called, the rapture.

Hi Vic

Thanks for trying to explain to Watchman that the "spirit" is the "spirit" and the "soul" is the "soul" < Totally different and seperate of one another, yet work together while the body is still alive, so the spirit is still with man, but returns unto God after one dies. But not the soul !

Apples are apples, oranges are oranges, spirit is spirit and soul is soul, and body is body.

Thanks again - MM

 

[watchman F]

Thanks for explaining. I now see why this line of questioning. :yes

May I play devil's advocate for a moment? :D

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

You see, I sometimes struggle with the way soul and spirit are sometimes interchanged, because I see them as separate. I kind of see it as the Jews did. They believe the soul is the very life force of a person; hence the soul is "in the blood". As C.S. lewis said, "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

They also believe the dead are awaken and their loved ones are reunited with them.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

Add the Christian aspect of transformation and you have what is commonly called, the rapture.

Hi Vic

Thanks for trying to explain to Watchman that the "spirit" is the "spirit" and the "soul" is the "soul" < Totally different and seperate of one another, yet work together while the body is still alive, so the spirit is still with man, but returns unto God after one dies. But not the soul !

Apples are apples, oranges are oranges, spirit is spirit and soul is soul, and body is body.

Thanks again - MM

So what do you think happens to the soul when you die MM?

 

[Mysteryman]

Question from Watchman: "So what do you think happens to the soul when you die MM?"

Watchman:

Shouldn't the question be --> What is a soul ?

 

[Mysteryman]

Watchman:

Just so you know where I stand. I do not believe in soul sleep.

Please read Psalms 33:19 & 20 and Psalms 44:25 and Psalm 49:15 and Psalms 116:8 and Psalms 119:25

IN Christ - MM

 

[watchman F]

Watchman:

Just so you know where I stand. I do not believe in soul sleep.

Please read Psalms 33:19 & 20 and Psalms 44:25 and Psalm 49:15 and Psalms 116:8 and Psalms 119:25

IN Christ - MM

So MM
#1 What is a soul
#2 What happens to it when you die?

 

[NJBeliever]

VETERAN -- OK, I will try to just stick to some simple points:

The 6th Seal of Revelation is the start of the day of the Lord. Joel 2:31 makes that clear. Post-tribbers and Pre-tribbers somehow ignore Joel 2:31 even though it single-handedly refutes both models.

The 6th Seal is the fulfillment of Isaiah 2 (which is the Day of The Lord). All the signs of the Day of The Lord as described in the OT are there. The rich and powerful people even proclaim it's the day of God's wrath. At this point there's nothing else to debate. The Day of The Lord is not the Second Coming. You are just misinterpreting scripture.

To think that the Second Coming of Christ is unexpected is also incorrect and completely unsupported by Scripture. It's not a "thief in the night." The entire heathen world knows Christ is coming when they are waiting for Him at Megiddo. And for the 3rd time, anyone who has a bible can just follow all of the trumpets and vial judgments and know exactly what's going to happen right up until Christ comes. Which should be obvious(!). lol. But somehow despite this, you assert, that the whole world of unbelievers are going to be caught off guard even though unprecedented supernatural disasters and occurences are taking place left and right. And Christian believers, who are witnessing the sheer carnage will somehow be in danger of not realize Christ is coming and could be caught unaware?? No chance. Again, this point by itself also proves that post-tribbers are just misreading scripture.


Luke 19: 41And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

[NJBeliever]

And regarding the seals and trumpets and vials, considering the angels who hold the trumpets are not even given them until the 7th seal is opened, there can be no overlap. Similarity does not equal sameness.

 

[Mysteryman]

Watchman:

Just so you know where I stand. I do not believe in soul sleep.

Please read Psalms 33:19 & 20 and Psalms 44:25 and Psalm 49:15 and Psalms 116:8 and Psalms 119:25

IN Christ - MM

So MM
#1 What is a soul
#2 What happens to it when you die?

1. breath life and memory

2. When you die, your soul dies with you. The verses I provided should have clearly shown you this.

Now, when are you going to start answering my questions ?

Isn't that what an exchange of conversation is all about ?

And this will be my last post with you on this subject, unless you are more willing to discuss back and forth .

 

[Mysteryman]

NJBeliever:

Do you believe in just one tribulation period or two ?