turnorburn
Member
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
tob
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The Process Of Justification
- Thread starter dadof10
- Start date
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
tob
dadof10
Member
what does it say? he believed and it was granted to him righteousness . i really shouldn't waste my time with you. when we are saved its by Grace through faith.. so by our faith in accepting calling on God to be saved yes we are justified by faith may i ask what Paul wrote ? Romans 5:1 Therefore being " justified by faith," we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: saving faith justifies us. sorta like backing a cake it takes all the ingredients to be saved minus the works that you cling to
I am reading the Bible, and asking for input for my exegesis of Gen. 12, Heb. 11, Gen. 17 and Rom. 4. If you have nothing to contribute to the actual OP and instead just want to regurgitate your canned view of justification, you really are wasting time here.
ezra
Member
get a real Bible to read would help. i noticed how you tiptoed around Romans 5:1 Therefore being " justified by faith," we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: saving faith .
justified by faith
justified by faith how much Bible and exegesis do you thing you need because scripture plainly points out YOUR WRONG .in fact all the poster hve pointed out using scripture YOUR WRONG also i have used Hebrews 11
dadof10
Member
Ezra, I'm not arguing what justification is, but whether we are justified more than once. How can I be wrong on a subject I'm not arguing?
smaller
Member
ezra
Member
get real there is only one justification -declared righteous -if we sin we have a advocate that takes care of our case. our responsibility is the repent draw closer to god .the moment we get saved we are sanctified .set apart to serve in the kingdom of God. .right here is your answer -----------> Colossians 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: .
dadof10
Member
If "complete in Him" means that once a person is justified he can never reject that justification or fall away, why was Abraham justified more than once? Does Scripture contradict? Or maybe your interpretation of "complete in Him" is faulty.
dadof10
Member
If "complete in Him" means that once a person is justified he can never reject that justification or fall away, why was Abraham justified more than once? Does Scripture contradict? Or maybe your interpretation of "complete in Him" is faulty.
dadof10
Member
I just realized that you have not commented on my take that most doctrine comes through inference. You SEEM to be sort of dismissing the whole "inference method" (if that's the right phrase) as second class. I might point out that you are inferring that it's "impossible to be justified twice" from Heb. 6. It doesn't say it there. You have also in the past inferred that a person (Cornelius and his household) is justified if they receive the Holy Spirit. I don't remember it actually saying anywhere that Holy Spirit=justification, although it could be there. Either way, do you think that because we are inferring from Scripture that this is a bastardized way to arrive at Truth?
Jethro Bodine
Member
Inference is fine.......as long as nothing else stands in it's way.
Jethro Bodine
Member
What does it show then? His original justification in Genesis 15:6.
It's a reference to Genesis 15:6. All this faith Abraham is having is what justified him back in Genesis 15:6. Read it.
ezra
Member
tell ya what show me in scriptures we are justified more than one time. . so far all you have done is post empty cloud theory SOON as you show scripture your justified more than once. then i will post saying i was wrong. until then i suggest you read your Bible not some fairy tale book . your grasping at straws .{ Either way, do you think that because we are inferring from Scripture that this is a bastardized way to arrive at Truth?] DO you have any idea what your saying? somebody else plzzzzzzzzzz try to explain this to him
ezra
Member
“And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
Righteousness is an attribute of moral purity belonging to God alone (John 17:25 ). It is He alone who is truly righteous. No one in the world is righteous in the eyes of the Lord, that is, except the Christian. We are counted righteous in the eyes of God when we receive Jesus by faith (Phil. 3:9). Our righteousness is based on what Jesus did on the cross. The righteousness that was Christ's is counted to us. We, then, are seen as righteous in the eyes of God. Though we are actually worthy of damnation, we are made righteous (Isaiah 61:10) by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. As a result, we will spend eternity in the presence of the holy, pure, loving, kind, gentle, and righteous God who is our righteousness.so dad of 10 twice you been shown error . your theory just has no merit no disrespect intended. but i have yet to see scripture that plainly says..
dadof10
Member
I have read it. Over and over.
"In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, “SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE.”
When was he told he "would become father of many nations" Gen. 15 or Gen. 17?
"Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah’s womb"
When did he remain strong in faith and "contemplate his own body"? Was it in Gen. 15 or Gen. 17?
You have said that V.18-22 refers to Gen. 17, so your view is that Paul is talking about Gen. 17, then going BACK to Gen. 15 and saying BACK THEN "it was credited to him as righteousness"? He talks about events that only happen in Gen. 17, says "THEREFORE it was credited to him for righteousness", but he's referring to Gen. 15....OK...
Then, I guess when he had faith and it was "credited to him as righteousness" in Gen. 15, he was talking about the justification that happened back in Gen. 12, right? His justification is a process, starting when he had faith in Gen. 12 and he just kept growing stronger in faith all the way through his life. "All this faith Abraham is having" didn't start in Gen. 15, it started in Gen. 12.
dadof10
Member
Then, would that be in Gen. 12, where the author of Hebrews says:
"By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going." (Heb. 11:8 KJV, a "real" Bible)
This is "the moment he believed" according to the author of Hebrews, and this episode happened on Gen. 12.
Just a simple yes or no, without 200 words explaining your opinion of WHAT justification is, would be great.
smaller
Member
Sinners don't and never have made themselves anything other than what they are. Sinners.
The "need" of our Savior is based on our factual lack, which remains after salvation as well.
The only problem with scripture is that people who see in part read it and still see in part and imperfectly. Again, back to the point.
No one, no, not one person other than God Himself in the flesh, has made themselves or will make themselves sinless, righteous, perfect or justified.
All of these are "in Him" by faith. And again, no one has yet received the fulfillment of these matters. They are accountings of faith at the present, for a future fulfillment, here:
Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
It might seem in the meantime that we have a very hard time just being honest about our current state.
ezra
Member
are you even real? what does the Bible say? yes the moment he believed yes he was JUSTIFIED read the Bible.
smaller
Member
The so called "process" of Abram to Abraham was no different than any believer, and is noted as to progression by Paul, here, for all "in faith."
Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
All of these so called "states" or "progressions" are "in Him" from the moment of faith, because He Is Eternal and those "states" or "works" are of the Eternal Works/Workings of Him. That's why the terms are noted as present/current tense, as the moment of faith "in Him."
Eternal matters are and can be only In His Hands.
Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
All of these so called "states" or "progressions" are "in Him" from the moment of faith, because He Is Eternal and those "states" or "works" are of the Eternal Works/Workings of Him. That's why the terms are noted as present/current tense, as the moment of faith "in Him."
Eternal matters are and can be only In His Hands.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Any church that would throw this kind of preaching out of the pulpit is crazy.
May I make special note of your mention of how Christ's righteousness is credited to our account (Romans 4:6). When I believed, his perfect righteousness showed up in my righteousness account. It was enough to pay off the huge debt of unrighteousness I had accumulated, the one I realized I could never pay off with works of righteousness. Now when God sees my account he sees my debt marked 'paid in full', dated the day I believed. I'm what you call a 'happy camper'. :yes