The Process Of Justification

[dadof10]

As i said, He believed God.....= that is Faith.
Abraham then, acted on his faith......but this "doing" didnt justify a second time, it only proved that he truly believed

Never said he was justified twice in Gen. 12. He was justified once in Gen. 12, once in Gen. 15 and once in Gen. 17, for a total of three times, that we know about. You have said repeatedly that "when he had faith" in Gen 12, he was justified. That would be one time. Was he again justified in Gen. 15:6? If so, we agree.

Think of it like this.
How many times does the eternally saving blood of Christ need to be shed to pay for your sins this week or next?
Once you understand that, you'll comprehend why you are not ever justified more then once, but until you understand it, you'll continue to think that you are needing to be justified.
So, the problem isn't with Christ's blood.....is it.?

Was Abraham justified by his faith in Gen. 12? Was he justified by his faith in Gen. 15? The problem isn't my understanding of Christ's blood, but your misunderstanding of your own position.

 

[dadof10]

I'm flattered, lol.

I think it's been presented already in this thread, but do we agree that this is what justification is?

"by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14 NASB)

No, it hasn't been presented yet. I think this verse does refer to justification, but it isn't the definition. Do you think it means that by Christ's sacrifice all believers are "perfected" for "all time" and so, never need to be perfected (justified) again, or that Christ's one offering He has done what "every priest" who "stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins" couldn't do? (v.11). I think, in context, it's the latter.

And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Heb. 10:10)

The author is putting the emphasis on Christ's one sacrifice, as opposed to the Jewish priests many. I don't think he means that all believers are "perfected", never to sin again. Gotta get to work....

 

[Kidron]

Was Abraham justified by his faith in Gen. 12? Was he justified by his faith in Gen. 15? The problem isn't my understanding of Christ's blood, but your misunderstanding of your own position.

-
My "position' has never changed.
Its the same.....its this........If the blood of Jesus forgives your sins, because you have been born again, they are always forgiven.
Its done, you're saved, there is nothing else required to go to heaven for eternity.
This is because you are now "in Christ", = you are always justified, sanctified, redeemed.
Its because you have been given God's very Righteousness, and because of this, what could he possible need from you to save you or keep you saved?????.
Water Baptism?...Works?.....Communion? = thats ridiculous.
There is no "process" of anything anymore that is NECESSARY to achieve my forgiveness or sustain my eternal life, including the "process of justification", because the blood of Jesus ONCE applied to me, ends all of that.

See, inherent in the idea of "process continuing" is the fact that this has to do with a person's EFFORT.
And there is no Personal EFFORT that God accepts on a persons behalf that saves them, because the Blood of Jesus ALONE is the means for justification, redemption, atonement.
The blood of Jesus, never loses its power or its ability to atone, and this is why there is nothing left to do regarding "JESUS SAVES".
He did it FOR ME.... and it not a "process",.....Its a finished work, a one time application, based on BELIEF.... Acts 16:30-31

 

[Douglas Summers]

I believe justification is a process, not a one time event, and I think the example of Abraham proves this view. No one will deny he was justified (declared/made righteous) in Gen. 15:6 when he "believed God...". But I believe he was justified in Gen. 12 also, which proves justification is a process

This means that Abraham was justified in Gen. 12, then again in Gen. 15, therefore justification (being made/declared righteous) is a process, not a one time event.

Not so. Abraham was "justified" by God 20 some years before his test of the sacrifice of his son before God. Justification is the act of God because God is just. And declares us justified for those who believe God who believe in the work of Christ. Or in the OT, they believed God. The obedience of Abraham was proof of God's justification. Saints do not grow into grace, but they grow in grace. Nothing in the work of God in our Salvation is left up to self will, except to believe Noting in salvation is a process. The only process in saved man is to grow in grace. personal works do not help to save or keep one saved that is already saved. The act of Abraham's obedience was for us to see...not for God.

 

[Kidron]

The act of Abraham's obedience was for us to see...not for God.

Exactly.
This is the same as James talking about showing works TO EACH OTHER that proves faith is alive. James 2:18.
James is not showing his works to God, he is showing it to other believers.
God didnt need to see James's works for salvation, when he had already seen his FAITH that God accepts.
This is why the Hebrews 11:6 tells us...."without FAITH, it is Impossible to please God".....not works, but "FAITH", is what pleases God.
Faith, is what God responds to., its what motivates him on our behalf.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Exactly.
This is the same as James talking about showing works TO EACH OTHER that proves faith is alive. James 2:18.
James is not showing his works to God, he is showing it to other believers.
God didnt need to see James's works for salvation, when he had already seen his FAITH that God accepts.
This is why the Hebrews 11:6 tells us...."without FAITH, it is Impossible to please God".....not works, but "FAITH", is what pleases God.
Faith, is what God responds to., its what motivates him on our behalf.

Amen Kidron.

 

[dadof10]

-
My "position' has never changed.
Its the same.....its this........If the blood of Jesus forgives your sins, because you have been born again, they are always forgiven.
Its done, you're saved, there is nothing else required to go to heaven for eternity.
This is because you are now "in Christ", = you are always justified, sanctified, redeemed.
Its because you have been given God's very Righteousness, and because of this, what could he possible need from you to save you or keep you saved?????.
Water Baptism?...Works?.....Communion? = thats ridiculous.
There is no "process" of anything anymore that is NECESSARY to achieve my forgiveness or sustain my eternal life, including the "process of justification", because the blood of Jesus ONCE applied to me, ends all of that.

See, inherent in the idea of "process continuing" is the fact that this has to do with a person's EFFORT.
And there is no Personal EFFORT that God accepts on a persons behalf that saves them, because the Blood of Jesus ALONE is the means for justification, redemption, atonement.
The blood of Jesus, never loses its power or its ability to atone, and this is why there is nothing left to do regarding "JESUS SAVES".
He did it FOR ME.... and it not a "process",.....Its a finished work, a one time application, based on BELIEF.... Acts 16:30-31

I got it now. Your standard operating procedure is to focus one sentence in my posts so you can pontificate on your view of salvation as a whole, while ignoring questions specific to the topic. Let me just ask you two questions to clear this up.

You said:
"So, it the same with Abraham's works.......he has the FAITH, and THEN he goes into the wilderness "not knowing where"....etc.
So, Abraham BELIEVED first (Faith) and THEN God applied righteousness, at the INSTANT of faith."

Then, doubled down in your next post:
"The bible does not infer that Abraham or anyone can be saved more then once.
And Abraham was absolutely justified by faith.
After that happened, he then did works. (went out)."

What you are describing above is from Gen. 12. This is a fact. Abraham "goes out into the wilderness, not knowing where...etc." and "went out" in Gen 12. Your construct is that he "BELIEVED first (Faith) and THEN God applied righteousness, at the INSTANT of faith" and "was absolutely justified by faith" before He "went out" in Gen. 12.

1) Are you sticking by your contention that Abraham was justified in Gen. 12?

2) Do you believe that Abraham was justified in Gen. 15 when Paul says his faith was "credited to him as righteousness"?

 

[dadof10]

Not so. Abraham was "justified" by God 20 some years before his test of the sacrifice of his son before God. Justification is the act of God because God is just. And declares us justified for those who believe God who believe in the work of Christ. Or in the OT, they believed God. The obedience of Abraham was proof of God's justification. Saints do not grow into grace, but they grow in grace. Nothing in the work of God in our Salvation is left up to self will, except to believe Noting in salvation is a process. The only process in saved man is to grow in grace. personal works do not help to save or keep one saved that is already saved. The act of Abraham's obedience was for us to see...not for God.

Because you say it doesn't make it true. I have laid out irrefutable (up to this point anyway) proof that Abraham was justified in Gen. 12. Instead of preaching about what Abraham did throughout his life, how about addressing my exegesis? If you can't refute it, I guess the logical thing to do is accept it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think this verse does refer to justification, but it isn't the definition.

Technically, you are right. Hebrews 10:14 is a passage that helps us understand what happens in justification. Maybe the best picture of what justification is is this:

"24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:24-25 NASB)

'Being justified through the redemption (the forgiveness of sin) which is in Christ'. That's what justification is. It's having your sin guilt removed through the forgiveness of that sin guilt.

Do you think it means that by Christ's sacrifice all believers are "perfected" for "all time" and so, never need to be perfected (justified) again...

Yes.
The reality of this legal perfection, attained one time for all time when we first believed, is seen in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. The Corinthians were an immature bunch of sinning believers full of the leaven of sin (kind of like us in this forum, lol ), yet Paul reminds them of what they really are--a lump of dough without the leaven of sin:

"Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened." (1 Corinthians 5:7 NASB italics in original)

That's what justification is. It's being seen by God as sin free and perfectly righteous despite the leaven of our daily sin. It's the perfection the author of Hebrews is talking about in the Hebrews 10:14 passage we looked at. But it's a legal righteousness--a legal declaration of sinless perfection. Because in factual reality we all know all too well that in our bodies we are still very much full of the leaven of sin. This is the disparity that Paul is referring to in the verse above and an illustration of the one time for all time justification I'm defending.

Now the gradual removal of the actual leaven in our behavior, THAT'S what is a process and takes the rest of our earthly lives to complete. That is called 'sanctification', not 'justification'. The legal declaration of now being sin free unleavened bread was completed right from the start and does not have to be redone. But being sanctified, that is the process that began at salvation and continues to the moment we leave these husks of grain behind.

...or that Christ's one offering He has done what "every priest" who "stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins" couldn't do? (v.11). I think, in context, it's the latter.

Yes this is true. But what I just said is also what the author of Hebrews is trying to say. And he explains why it is that this Priest, Jesus, doesn't have to offer his sacrifice more than one time--because it did it's full and complete work of purifying the sinner in it's one and only offering on the altar thereby making it unnecessary to have to do that again.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Heb. 10:10)

The author is putting the emphasis on Christ's one sacrifice, as opposed to the Jewish priests many. I don't think he means that all believers are "perfected", never to sin again. Gotta get to work....

Right. It doesn't mean that believers will never sin again. It means their sin will never be imputed to them and so they will remain sinless in that respect before God forever (as long as they continue to have faith, of course. Faith is how one accesses God's grace in justification).

I know the author's use of the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:10 may be a little confusing in regard to what i just said about sanctification being the process while justification is the one time event, but it is true that sanctification, which means being set aside as clean for a holy purpose, has a one-time aspect about it too. I can explain if you're wondering.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Because you say it doesn't make it true. I have laid out irrefutable (up to this point anyway) proof that Abraham was justified in Gen. 12. Instead of preaching about what Abraham did throughout his life, how about addressing my exegesis? If you can't refute it, I guess the logical thing to do is accept it.

You will be responsible for what you teach just like I will...... I said it because it is true, It is the Spiritual teaching of the Scriptures of the OT , for all these things happen to them for examples and are written for our teachings of and by God. That without God's grace, there is no hope for man. God is always the giver and forgiver. It does not profit the hearers for someone who feels they have figured something out in Scripture, but becomes incensed if challenged on it by other Bible scholars

 

[Douglas Summers]

Right. It doesn't mean that believers will never sin again. It means their sin will never be imputed to them and so they will remain sinless in that respect before God forever (as long as they continue to have faith, of course. Faith is how one accesses God's grace in justification).

I know the author's use of the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:10 may be a little confusing in regard to what i just said about sanctification being the process while justification is the one time event, but it is true that sanctification, which means being set aside as clean for a holy purpose, has a one-time aspect about it too. I can explain if you're wondering.

Hi Jethro,, While it is true that it is God's mercy that caused Him to provide Salvation for lost men, it is not His mercy that Justifies the believer, it is God's Justice. Our Holy God and Creator can not just pass over sin or lawlessness, but because the Law are God's Standards and He is Judge, all lawlessness must be paid by it's penalty (Death). And because God is a just God, He judged the penalty of the lawlessness with death of the Son. So the penalty has been paid and justice has been served by God in Jesus The Christ, as a substitute for lawless man. So all who accept or believe in the gift to lawless men, is justified by the law of all things lawless, because it was put on the back of Christ, our substitute. In the exodus of Israel out of Egypt, all who excepted God's justice were justified by the blood. The rest received the penalty.

 

[dadof10]

Technically, you are right. Hebrews 10:14 is a passage that helps us understand what happens in justification. Maybe the best picture of what justification is is this:

"24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:24-25 NASB)

'Being justified through the redemption (the forgiveness of sin) which is in Christ'. That's what justification is. It's having your sin guilt removed through the forgiveness of that sin guilt.

Agreed. This is the long version of it.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

Yes.
The reality of this legal perfection, attained one time for all time when we first believed, is seen in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. The Corinthians were an immature bunch of sinning believers full of the leaven of sin (kind of like us in this forum, lol ), yet Paul reminds them of what they really are--a lump of dough without the leaven of sin:

Not "kind of"...Exactly..

"Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened." (1 Corinthians 5:7 NASB italics in original)

That's what justification is. It's being seen by God as sin free and perfectly righteous despite the leaven of our daily sin.

This is where you lose me. I don't think Scripture teaches Luther's "snow covered dung heap" view, which seems to be what you are promoting here. Even the verse above says "just as you are in fact unleavened". If we are forgiven, God sees us as forgiven. When we commit sin, He sees us as actual sinners in need of repentance.

It's the perfection the author of Hebrews is talking about in the Hebrews 10:14 passage we looked at.

But it's a legal righteousness--a legal declaration of sinless perfection. Because in factual reality we all know all too well that in our bodies we are still very much full of the leaven of sin. This is the disparity that Paul is referring to in the verse above and an illustration of the one time for all time justification I'm defending.

Imputed (legal declaration) vs. infused (actual changing of the person) is a topic for another thread, but I don't see how your view on Heb. 10:14 squares with what you say next.

Now the gradual removal of the actual leaven in our behavior, THAT'S what is a process and takes the rest of our earthly lives to complete. That is called 'sanctification', not 'justification'. The legal declaration of now being sin free unleavened bread was completed right from the start and does not have to be redone. But being sanctified, that is the process that began at salvation and continues to the moment we leave these husks of grain behind.

Here is the verse again: "by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14 NASB)

If he was talking about people who are in the process of sanctification (like we are), he wouldn't have said "who are". He must be talking generally about those who's sanctification has been completed. Again, his point is that Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient for ALL sin to sanctify ALL people, unlike the Jews sacrifices, which had to be repeated.

Yes this is true. But what I just said is also what the author of Hebrews is trying to say. And he explains why it is that this Priest, Jesus, doesn't have to offer his sacrifice more than one time--because it did it's full and complete work of purifying the sinner in it's one and only offering on the altar thereby making it unnecessary to have to do that again.

It's unnecessary for Jesus to be sacrificed again, but the application of this one time sacrifice is what we are discussing, and this verse doesn't speak to the subject. Anyway, I'll have more time later. Gotta get to work....Time to make the donuts...

 

[dadof10]

Right. It doesn't mean that believers will never sin again. It means their sin will never be imputed to them and so they will remain sinless in that respect before God forever (as long as they continue to have faith, of course. Faith is how one accesses God's grace in justification).

I don't believe Scripture says or implies anyone will remain sinless before God. Again, this is Luther's "snow covered dung heap".

I know the author's use of the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:10 may be a little confusing in regard to what i just said about sanctification being the process while justification is the one time event, but it is true that sanctification, which means being set aside as clean for a holy purpose, has a one-time aspect about it too. I can explain if you're wondering.

Sure. I made mention of it being inconsistent in the previous post (which I failed to actually send earlier ), it's kinda off topic, though. Sooner or later you're going to have to engage in refuting my exegesis of Heb. 11 and Gen. 12.

We can continue to toss around verses and talk about sanctification and imputed vs. infused righteousness. That's fine, but there is still the elephant in the room, the justification of Abraham in Gen. 12. I realize your argument is that it's unnecessary for Abraham to have been justified twice (or more) because of the nature of justification. No matter what verses you bring up to support your case, my response will continue to be "then why was Abraham justified twice, if it's unnecessary? Does Scripture contradict itself?" Eventually we are going to have to go down that road. You are an honest person, Jethro and your reluctance to attempt a refutation of my exegesis speaks volumes. Your silence is deafening. You are not the kind of person whom I find on forums who applies with regularity the old adage: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with..." well, you know the rest. So, when you didn't come right out and attack it, I realized I was onto something because you're not the kind of person who will just string a bunch of verses and words together and say "see?" You have not been shy about letting me know when I've been logically inconsistent and rightfully so. That's why I'm here. So, take your time, I'll be patient...But it's coming...

 

[dadof10]

You will be responsible for what you teach just like I will...... I said it because it is true, It is the Spiritual teaching of the Scriptures of the OT , for all these things happen to them for examples and are written for our teachings of and by God. That without God's grace, there is no hope for man. God is always the giver and forgiver. It does not profit the hearers for someone who feels they have figured something out in Scripture, but becomes incensed if challenged on it by other Bible scholars

It "does not profit" to ask for a discussion on an exegesis of Scripture? It's becoming "incensed" to expect exegetical study instead of rambling preaching? The point is, it has been "challenged" exactly ZERO TIMES by you or anyone else, unless you consider posting your opinion of justification as a whole to be a challenge. Drew I feel your pain...

 

[smaller]

The flesh of Abraham died, because of the presence of indwelling sin, just like everyone else. The flesh of Abraham was never justified or made righteous by God through any of his actions.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Paul hits this same nail on the head, here:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Abraham accounted himself in the flesh no differently than we are to and Paul took his cue on this matter from Abraham:

Genesis 18:27
And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:

Job, no different of an experience:

Job 42:6
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

These men of faith did not try to justify their flesh, their natural man, or to claim it, their flesh/natural man righteous or justified, as it was not and could not and will never be so.

Both of their "natural bodies" wound up exactly as they observed. And they spoke "truthfully" of this matter. Whatever righteousness of justifications they had did NOT come from themselves, as they were not the purveyors or the 'Grantor'.

God in Christ Grants what is only His to Grant. No man has any of their own natural super powers or their own supernatural powers. That is just a religious fantasy that some camps hold out, that we can, of our own, conjure up such things.
John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

John 6:6
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is where you lose me. I don't think Scripture teaches Luther's "snow covered dung heap" view, which seems to be what you are promoting here. Even the verse above says "just as you are in fact unleavened". If we are forgiven, God sees us as forgiven. When we commit sin, He sees us as actual sinners in need of repentance.

I don't understand how you can miss it. Paul plainly said the sinning Corinthians were in fact unleavened in the same breathe he's telling them to "clean out the old leaven".

"1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles. 6 ... Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened." (1 Corinthians 5:1,6-7 NASB italics in original)

You see, despite the guilt of their present sin they did not lose their state of legal perfection--their justification--before God.

Remember, it's impossible for them to lose their justification and then be brought back from that apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-6). So we know the forgiveness continually covering the justified, but sinning believer can not be in regard to the lose of justification, that is in regard to a rejection of the blood of Christ (apostasy--a rejection of the faith itself), but in regard to the weakness and ignorance of outward sin (Hebrews 4:15).

 

[dadof10]

I don't understand how you can miss it. Paul plainly said the sinning Corinthians were in fact unleavened in the same breathe he's telling them to "clean out the old leaven".

"1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles. 6 ... Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened." (1 Corinthians 5:1,6-7 NASB italics in original)

You see, despite the guilt of their present sin they did not lose their state of legal perfection--their justification--before God.

Remember, it's impossible for them to lose their justification and then be brought back from that apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-6). So we know the forgiveness continually covering the justified, but sinning believer can not be in regard to the lose of justification, that is in regard to a rejection of the blood of Christ (apostasy--a rejection of the faith itself), but in regard to the weakness and ignorance of outward sin (Hebrews 4:15).

I'm missing it because Paul is not talking about personal sin (leaven) here, but about A person who's sinful lifestyle is being accepted by the Christian community in Corinth. How appropriate is this Scripture for the 21st century, but I digress.

"It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1Co 5:1-5 NASB)

This "one" has been living a sinful lifestyle with "his father's wife". He is speaking about this person specifically.

"Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?" (1Co 5:6 NASB)

It seems from the text that the Church at Corinth was actually boasting about something associated with this sin. Again, how poignant. The Church as a whole was accepting of either this person and/or his lifestyle. This is the context for his "leaven/lump" analogy.

"Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." (1Co 5:7-8 NASB)

Christ died for the Church, so it is "unleavened" as a whole. Yet they are accepting a sinful lifestyle (leaven) within the Church (the lump). He is telling them not to "celebrate the feast" with people (leaven) who are outwardly living a sinful lifestyle (with malice and wickedness), but with "the bread of sincerity and truth". Quite Eucharistic, but I digress again.

"I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one." (1Co 5:9-11 NASB)

This speaks for itself. In conclusion...

"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES." (1Co 5:12-13 NASB)

He wrote to them about not associating with "immoral persons", but they misunderstood him to mean immoral unbelievers. He is correcting them. He meant "those who are within the church", not "outsiders". His reference to "cleaning out the old leaven" is to "remove the wicked man from among yourselves", not remove personal sin from your lives. This has nothing to do with "justification".

As you can see, in Paul's analogy the "lump" is the Church at Corinth (or even as a whole) and the "leaven" is their acceptance of a person's blatantly sinful lifestyle. Your interpretation is that the "lump" is a person and the "leaven" is personal sin. This is a misinterpretation.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I don't understand how you can miss it. Paul plainly said the sinning Corinthians were in fact unleavened in the same breathe he's telling them to "clean out the old leaven".

"1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles. 6 ... Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened." (1 Corinthians 5:1,6-7 NASB italics in original)

You see, despite the guilt of their present sin they did not lose their state of legal perfection--their justification--before God.

Remember, it's impossible for them to lose their justification and then be brought back from that apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-6). So we know the forgiveness continually covering the justified, but sinning believer can not be in regard to the lose of justification, that is in regard to a rejection of the blood of Christ (apostasy--a rejection of the faith itself), but in regard to the weakness and ignorance of outward sin (Hebrews 4:15).

Hi Jethro, What many people do not understand is that the visible Church is a mixture of wheat and tares. They associate the visible church as all born again believers. It is not. All born again believers are really a part of Christ body by rebirth (that is not to say they are without sin, they just do not practice sin. (1 John 1:5-10; 3: 1-24) Some who read these Scriptures try to explain them by the flesh, but they are Spiritual. (Gal. 5: 14-17) explains this battle in the born again. So when Paul is chastising the church it is not because the born again are necessarily committing these sins, It is a warring to all the church in Corinth. The problem was that the church is suppose to purge the church of sin (leaven), but the church was indifferent to the sinful affair in their midst of the congregation. So in the visible church, not all are justified because the enemy sits in the pews also (tares) Matt. 13: 24-25)
So it shall be worse off for them who have heard the way of salvation and trampled over it than those who did not hear it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

dadof10 , Douglas Summers ,

Was Paul only speaking of unbelievers among the Corinthians when he said these things?

" 1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?" (1 Corinthians 3: NASB bold mine)


"20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper,21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:20-22,29-32 NASB bold mine)


32 If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE. 33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.” 34 Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame." (1 Corinthians 15:32-34 NASB capitals in original, bold mine)

And if he is speaking about the believers at Corinth, which he obviously is, how can he say they are unleavened (which he did)?