The Prodigal Son

[JLB]

I'm no expert on the Prodigal (lost) Son parable,
but does Luke 15 say that either son ended up eternally lost?
If not, why speculate?
I guess that's why I prefer non-fiction over fiction.

What scripture does say, is, while the prodigal son was separated from the father, he was lost.


According to Jesus, lost means a sinner in need of repentance.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

A sinner is someone who is separated (unreconciled) from Christ.


The ninety nine were said to be “just”.


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.



For a sheep to be lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.




JLB

 

[JLB]

It's Olde English...
Meaning that the definitions of the words have shifted slightly from the original.
A "partaker" is a "partner" in modern English.

Charity used to be the word for love... although today we think of charity as a function of love.

All that aside; we both know better than to do it eh?
And doing a hobby is much better than to share in the works of darkness.
I witness plenty...but not usually to the choir. (A much tougher crowd)

Partaking of God’s wrath is a salvation related issue.

Being excluded from God’s kingdom is salvation related issue.



Let’s be honest with people, and teach the truth, warning our brothers and sisters in love, but warn nonetheless that if they practice these things, they will partake of God’s wrath.

They will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


It’s all about lovIng people enough to tell them the uncomfortable truth.





JLB

 

[JosephT]

sooo you dont know WHO OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS ? that is what i asked goodness

If you are referring to Jeremias 23:6; 33:16 the DRV translate "Yᵉhôvâh tsidqênûw" to "the Lord our just one", that is the Messias. His name is "our just one".

There is something completely different in the KJV. He is not 'our righteousness' in the sense that we say 'I believe' changes our state of being from unjust to just or from unrighteous to righteous. Rather the name of the Messias promised is to be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Christ is our savior not our state of being righteous.

JosephT

 

[Senior]

Rather the name of the Messias promised is to be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Christ is our savior not our state of being righteous.

Even so, IMO, the new BAC is declared to be righteous
at the moment he/she receives the precious Holy Spirit
and is born-again.
However, this righteousness needs to be maintained.
Practicing righteousness keeps him/her righteous
in the eyes of God ... The word says so, not me!
I only accept and know what the word says!

 

[ezra]

Christ is our savior not our state of being righteous.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
no Christ is OUR righteousness he made us righteous by what he done on the cross

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[JosephT]

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
no Christ is OUR righteousness he made us righteous by what he done on the cross

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Is there a reason in each of the verses the various Protestant translations has righteousness the Latin has justice? Check out the DRV and see if you can find the answer. Can a just man be unrighteous? Can a righteous man be unjust?

So, why does the Vulgate use justice?

JosephT

 

[JosephT]

Even so, IMO, the new BAC is declared to be righteous
at the moment he/she receives the precious Holy Spirit
and is born-again.
However, this righteousness needs to be maintained.
Practicing righteousness keeps him/her righteous
in the eyes of God ... The word says so, not me!
I only accept and know what the word says!

God says the unrighteous is now righteous under the new régime?

Have a Holy year.

JosephT

 

[ezra]

Is there a reason in each of the verses the various Protestant translations has righteousness the Latin has justice? Check out the DRV and see if you can find the answer. Can a just man be unrighteous? Can a righteous man be unjust?

So, why does the Vulgate use justice?

JosephT

gee i didnt know i needed anything other than my bible

 

[Senior]

God says the unrighteous is now righteous under the new régime?

God says a lot of things in His Scriptures,
but evidently you only believe what you want to believe.
God says the unrighteous who become righteous
must then practice righteousness
in order to maintain their righteous standing ...
i.e. if they go back to unrighteousness (sinning habitually),
they are no longer considered righteous.

Does anyone kapishe-ola?
Or, iz I walkin' dis narrow path all by my widdle ole self?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Can we talk about something other than a backhanded OSAS conversation?

There's so much other stuff to discuss that no one ever hears about because of this one subject...

How about the angry son? The one who wouldn't join the party? Can't we talk about him?

There are two situtions that I think the angry son can be applied to.

One is towards Christians that are jelous of the gifts and experiences given to others, while they've done everything they know to be right by God and haven't had an extravagant experience like being cured from an addiction, an experience with an angel, or any other experience that God might give to save a Christian, who was struggling in sin or turned away from God.

The other is like the parable of the Pharisee and the sinner, where a Christian holds their view of themself as higher and better or more rightous then those who are deep in sin.

Either way, if a person sees the goodness God gives in celibration or otherwise to a sinning brother and are jelous, or if they are angry because they don't think the sinner deserves that kind of attention from God, then what the Father says to the angry son in this parable is good lesson.

 

[JLB]

If you are referring to Jeremias 23:6; 33:16 the DRV translate "Yᵉhôvâh tsidqênûw" to "the Lord our just one", that is the Messias. His name is "our just one".

There is something completely different in the KJV. He is not 'our righteousness' in the sense that we say 'I believe' changes our state of being from unjust to just or from unrighteous to righteous. Rather the name of the Messias promised is to be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Christ is our savior not our state of being righteous.

JosephT

What would you call someone who has there sins removed and is cleansed of all unrighteousness.


Righteous or Unrighteous?




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Lots of thoughts when I read this parable. Too many to put too much down, but one overriding theme in them is guilt. Just a lesson of God's love and feeling guilty for what we do. If it's alright I'm going to put a few down without going into more detail on each.

•the three parables that this parable is assoiciated with and is the last one. Including a women searching her home for a coin (later found out is a day's wage). A Shepard leaving his flock to search for the sheep that wandered away. And a son who unlike the other two parables showing our value, the father lets him go, and instead of searching for him waits for him to return. All three show God's love to us. Each one celibrated finding the treasure.

•the two sons. One like a spoiled kid wants what he wants, and takes his inheritance (half his father's possession?) leaves and loses it all. The other one hard working never leaves, sees the celibration and gets jealous and angry. I think between the two of them fits all that men and women can be. Lost and rebellious with a hope of redemption, or hardworking and striving at being obedient and right, but just as easily burning with anger to those who are doing wrong. Anger expecially if they get rewarded for all they do instead of punished.

•The love of the Father. He lets the son go. Probabley a sad and broken hearted moment. If not also feeling betrayed. Also the reception. Sees the son in the distance and runs to greet him. Ve em reproves the anger of the other son to show how much he is glad.

All of these things should be lessons of love of God and be an encouragement. Confidance in Him and strength in His love. Instead for me The last parable showing God's love fills me with guilt. Because I am both of the sons. It's a warning to me to not walk away, but even if you do God will let us return. It's a warning that if you stay to not lose a humble heart and ba angry with your brothers in faith.

Great post, as usual.
The inheritance the son received was 2/3 because he was the older son. He got more than the younger son and he received all of it when he left...so really the Father owed him nothing more...

But the Father still loved him so much as to accept him back.
When I would teach this parable to kids, I'd always asked them WHO in the parable did they think they were? Who did they most associate with?

The real answer is: Different persons at different times.
We have all been EACH ONE of the persons in this parable.
And each person had lessons to learn.

We all are both sons...
But we do our best to learn as we go through life.

 

[GodsGrace]

Can anyone really be free of sin? And if so how? Jesus defined the scope of sins in one sermon, regarding just lusting after another woman instead of your wife as part of adultry. That among other things that He taught in the sermon show a more difficult path to be sinless. Some even point to these teachings as a means to say that it is hopeless to do this without God's act of salvation and His rightousness covering our sins, and that we will always be sinning even if it is a reduced amount after being saved.

If this is not the case, then how to persevere in a sinful world without sinning ourselves is a worthwhile point to address. We all strive to be right by God, and many do better then others on overcoming certian sins. But so far the point of Jesus coming to die for us is because we are unable to keep ourselves from sin.

This should be a thread.
I don't believe it's possible to be sin-free.
Some will scold me for believing in a cop-out.

Point is that Jesus wants to change us from the inside out...
thus the lusting after another being a sin and not just the act of adultery itself.

Question is: How much of this can actually be accomplished?

I'll start a thread...

 

[GodsGrace]

If you are referring to Jeremias 23:6; 33:16 the DRV translate "Yᵉhôvâh tsidqênûw" to "the Lord our just one", that is the Messias. His name is "our just one".

There is something completely different in the KJV. He is not 'our righteousness' in the sense that we say 'I believe' changes our state of being from unjust to just or from unrighteous to righteous. Rather the name of the Messias promised is to be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Christ is our savior not our state of being righteous.

JosephT

When we come to believe in God, we are justified.
Even the CC believes this.

The Lord is our righteousness.
Whether or not we continue with Him is another doctrine...this would be sanctification or as you call it, ongoing justification.

This requires our cooperation and our works.
Jesus will NOT do everything for us as some in today's churches believe.

We can say that we were saved...
and we are being saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Is there a reason in each of the verses the various Protestant translations has righteousness the Latin has justice? Check out the DRV and see if you can find the answer. Can a just man be unrighteous? Can a righteous man be unjust?

So, why does the Vulgate use justice?

JosephT

I'd like to understand you better.
Are you speaking about 2 Corinthians 5:21?

 

[GodsGrace]

gee i didnt know i needed anything other than my bible

JosephT IS speaking about bibles.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are two situtions that I think the angry son can be applied to.

One is towards Christians that are jelous of the gifts and experiences given to others, while they've done everything they know to be right by God and haven't had an extravagant experience like being cured from an addiction, an experience with an angel, or any other experience that God might give to save a Christian, who was struggling in sin or turned away from God.

The other is like the parable of the Pharisee and the sinner, where a Christian holds their view of themself as higher and better or more rightous then those who are deep in sin.

Either way, if a person sees the goodness God gives in celibration or otherwise to a sinning brother and are jelous, or if they are angry because they don't think the sinner deserves that kind of attention from God, then what the Father says to the angry son in this parable is good lesson.

:nod

 

[WIP]

Great post, as usual.
The inheritance the son received was 2/3 because he was the older son. He got more than the younger son and he received all of it when he left...so really the Father owed him nothing more...

But the Father still loved him so much as to accept him back.
When I would teach this parable to kids, I'd always asked them WHO in the parable did they think they were? Who did they most associate with?

The real answer is: Different persons at different times.
We have all be EACH ONE of the persons in this parable.
And each person had lessons to learn.

We all are both sons...
But we do our best to learn as we go through life.

I don't think the father owed either one of them anything. Have I missed something?

Since this parable is used by Jesus to teach, it needs to reflect what we know of our place with God. Does God owe us anything? Our salvation is granted only by God's grace and not because of an owed debt.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think the father owed either one of them anything. Have I missed something?

Since this parable is used by Jesus to teach, it needs to reflect what we know of our place with God. Does God owe us anything? Our salvation is granted only by God's grace and not because of an owed debt.

God owes us nothing....
But He set up certain conditions so that we can go to Him and become a child of His.

Are you saying our salvation is granted by God's grace in that it's a gift...
Or are you saying that only God decides who will and will not be saved in the end?

IF we follow HIS conditions, can we not know that we are saved?

So, as I understand, we are not saved because God owes it to us,,,but because He loves us and we decided to follow His ways and so He declares us justified.

 

[chessman]

Anybody interested in discussing some of the questions/answers the author of the volume on parables StoveBolts recommended http://a.co/55aLQhT had concerning this parable?
wondering in this thread?