The Prodigal Son

[ezra]

There is no argument. St. Paul is clear and explicit: Those who break the commands of God will not inherit the kingdom of God.

have you broke any today? to him who knows to do good and dont is sin :shock. why do you avoid the such as you were? do you not understand what he is saying ?

 

[ezra]

Sweetheart, it is only because of the grace of Christ that we can be righteous.

“Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Mt 5:20)

who is our righteousness ?

 

[Walpole]

have you broke any today? to him who knows to do good and dont is sin :shock. why do you avoid the such as you were? do you not understand what he is saying ?

Not yet, but there’s still 2 1/2 hours left in the day...

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Sweetheart, it is only because of the grace of Christ that we can be righteous.

“Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Mt 5:20)

That's what I've been saying all along, but in this verse you are confusing self-righteousness with God's righteousness.
Go back to verses 15-17: we are supposed to be a light, to do good works and glorify the Father, but Christ came to fulfill the law. He's done it for us.
Check out Romans 3: 21-22, 2 Corinth. 5:21 and Galatians 2:20. Its all Christ, not us.

Side note: I much prefer the KJV - For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
"in no case" - I like the specifics. Makes you wonder what else the modern versions leave out of their translations.

Good night!

 

[JosephT]

who is our righteousness ?

Piety, righteousness, and justice is a state of being. We are these thing or are not, if not then we perfect these through the graces of God. Tell us, is righteousness to be torn down or built up? Cf. Psalms 10:8 Psalms 51:5. Is not righteousness the same as justice, if not how so?
One is called to be "perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect." [Matthew 5:48]. Are you perfectly just, or righteous? How does one become perfect in the eyes of God? It's a commandment, surly Jesus Christ didn't command the impossible? Does He not call the just His friend? [Cf. John 15:14]. If one is a friend of his, then he must do the things Christ commands. Is one to follow the commands of God lovingly as a friend? Or does one follow in fear of the Master? Being a friend one is just, righteous and pious. Is the word piety to be feared? Or, would you have the righteous be impious?

JosephT

 

[ezra]

Not yet, but there’s still 2 1/2 hours left in the day...

i bet you turned the water into wine and walked on water

 

[ezra]

Piety, righteousness, and justice is a state of being. We are these thing or are not, if not then we perfect these through the graces of God. Tell us, is righteousness to be torn down or built up? Cf. Psalms 10:8 Psalms 51:5. Is not righteousness the same as justice, if not how so?
One is called to be "perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect." [Matthew 5:48]. Are you perfectly just, or righteous? How does one become perfect in the eyes of God? It's a commandment, surly Jesus Christ didn't command the impossible? Does He not call the just His friend? [Cf. John 15:14]. If one is a friend of his, then he must do the things Christ commands. Is one to follow the commands of God lovingly as a friend? Or does one follow in fear of the Master? Being a friend one is just, righteous and pious. Is the word piety to be feared? Or, would you have the righteous be impious?

JosephT

sooo you dont know WHO OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS ? that is what i asked goodness

 

[JLB]

Wrong wrong wrong. Romans 3:20 ephesians 2:8-9. Many others.
Hey look at this https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-2-7-works-salvation.html

We are not saved by works.


We are saved, born again, regenerated by grace through faith.


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:1-10



But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7

Hopefully we don’t need to discuss this ever again, became we both agree that we are not saved by works.



Once a person has been born again, and baptized with the Holy Spirit, they now have the ability, that they did not have before, which is to be led by the Spirit; to live their life according to the Spirit within them, rather than live their life dominated by the sinful desires of their flesh.


We can either invest our time and energy towards the Spirit and strengthening and developing our inner man, or we can invest our time and energy toward gratifying the flesh.

• We can either practice righteousness or we can practice the works of the flesh.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7


This is the principle of righteousness; those who practice righteousness are righteous.

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[JLB]

sooo you dont know WHO OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS ? that is what i asked goodness

Jesus is our righteousness; His Spirit dwells within us and compels us to express His righteous desires.


The flesh also desires us to express its unrighteous desire.


Whichever one you yield yourself as a slave to obey, you are that ones slave.


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16




JLB

 

[JLB]

I asked:


So yes, they did have a choice of whether to partake or not! I agree.

Do those who’s God’s wrath will fall upon them have a choice as to whether they will partake of God’s wrath or not?

Yes, each of us have the choice to either repent and be saved or not.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36




JLB

 

[chessman]

I asked:

Do those who’s God’s wrath will fall upon them have a choice as to whether they will partake of God’s wrath or not?

Your answer:

Yes

The Scripture you quoted doesn’t say the ones on who’s God’s wrath will fall upon have a choice to partake of that wrath or not. In fact, it says it remains on them.

The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.​

John 3:36 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 3:36&version=LEB

As fire and brimstone fell upon Sodom and Gomorrah, did it’s inhabitants have a choice as to whether they would partake of the fire and brimstone (God’s wrath) or not?

John answered and said, “A man can receive not one thing unless it is granted to him from heaven!​

John 3:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 3:27&version=LEB

Will God grant mercy to unbelievers in Christ who YOU say can choose not to partake in God’s wrath???

who, although they know the requirements of God, that those who do such things are worthy of death, not only do they do the same things, but also they approve of those who do them .​

Romans 1:32 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 1:32&version=LEB

Will God grant a pardon from the His requirement (death) for unbelievers who you say choose not to partake in His wrath???

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.​

Ephesians 5:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 5:6&version=LEB

Regardless of your answers, I will not be deceived into thinking God’s wrath is not in fact coming upon all the sons of disobedience, whether they choose to partake in it our not.

 

[JLB]

Do those who’s God’s wrath will fall upon them have a choice as to whether they will partake of God’s wrath or not?

Your answer:

Again the answer is yes.

Everyone has a choice to obey the Gospel or not.

Every Born again Christian has a choice to obey the truth or to obey unrighteousness.


It’s very simple.

My answer is crystal clear, and the scripture I have given is crystal clear.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36


Here is another -


But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:5-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

again


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16



The common denominator in all of these scriptures is “obey”; obedience.


Either obey the Spirit within us, and disobey the desires of sin that dwells in our flesh, or obey the desires of sin in our flesh and disobey the truth; The Spirit of Truth, The Spirit of Christ.


The choice is ours to make.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I will not be deceived into thinking God’s wrath is not in fact coming upon all the sons of disobedience, whether they choose to partake in it our not.

Good.

Don’t be deceived.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.


For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7


Do you believe that born again Christians who are disobedient to God, and live as idolaters, or fornicators, or as covetous ones, or sexually immoral, or liars, or sorcerers or homosexuals or murderers, or the like will occur the wrath of God?





JLB

 

[Senior]

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous into life eternal." (Mt. 25:46)

The righteous = δίκαιος / dikaios = observing the divine laws;
upright; righteous; virtuous; keeping the commands of God

Thanks for making this so clear!

Upon receiving the Holy Spirit INSIDE, the BAC receives
every bit and portion of God's blessings imaginable!

However, it is the BAC's responsibility to maintain them!

That's why the verbs are in the present continuous sense:
KEEP ON ...
believing, having faith, trusting, obeying, being righteous, etc.

Nothing is a one-time deal ... enduring is the KEY.

 

[chessman]

Everyone has a choice to obey the Gospel or not.

Yes, but that’s not answering my question.

Every Born again Christian has a choice to obey the truth or to obey unrighteousness.

Yes, but that’s not answering my question.

the scripture I have given is crystal clear.

Yes, but it doesn’t support your answer to my questions. It indicates the opposite, in fact. People choose to participate in sin (or not), they don’t choose to receive God’s wrath. It will fall down upon them whether they like it or not. Just like it did to Sodom and Gomorrah. God “overthrew” them.

The choice is ours to make.

So your position is that when God’s wrath falls upon the sons of disobedience, it is optional at that time for them as to whether they choose to participate in God’s wrath or not. And the people of S&G “choose” to participate in God’s Fire and Brimstone and were not really “overthrown” by God’s wrath at all???

Got it. Now that’s an idea that makes no sense, not to mention contradicts their being “overthrown” as Scripture says and the sons of disobedience’s “nashing of teeth” as they choose to participate (according to you) in God’s wrath.

 

[Senior]

... it is only because of the grace of Christ that we can be righteous.
“Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Mt 5:20)

“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil … Whoever has been born of God does not sin (habitually) …
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:7-10)
Notice who “the children of God” are vs. who belongs to Satan.

Believers who are “faithful” will be obedient to Jesus’ commandments and practice righteousness …
and will have a standing of righteousness before the Lord.

“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
But, do all believers who are born of God practice righteousness?
Nope.

“… who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)

We can repeat these warnings a thousand times, and
some people will not believe, accept, and heed them.

 

[chessman]

Do you believe that born again Christians who are disobedient to God ...

It’s an oxymoron of an assumptive question, to say any born again Christian is disobedient to God.

Don’t you know that disobedience is the same Greek word as disbelief?

BAC’s who are disbelievers (unbelievers), now that makes no sense. But whatever, you carry on.

 

[chessman]

let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous just as He is righteous.

Why do you think the H in “He” is capitalized?

 

[Senior]

He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life,
but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

The problem with this particular verse is that it probably
refers to believing and accepting the gospel message.

Once I said the gospel is ONLY an invitation, not a command ...
... and someone pointed out a couple of verses which
sure look like they are commands to believe the gospel.
Oh well, wrong again!

 

[Senior]

Don’t you know that disobedience is the same Greek word as disbelief?

Don't you know that this is referring to ... disobeying
(i.e. disbelieving) the many dire warnings in the NT?