The Rapture Deception

[jerry63935]

Having been raised in a pre-trib family and church, there's not much if anything new I would think David Jeremiah can say/teach that I haven't already heard. So, instead of me listening to your pre-trib hero David Jeremiah or you listening to my post-trib hero Tim Warner of the Oasis Christian Church, why don't you see if David Jeremiah will debate Tim Warner at virtual debate via Youtube? I know Tim has openly debated several pre-trib teachers.

see this is the problem it has to be debated david jeremiah is in calif ,let me correct you he is not MY PRE TRIB HERO . i respect his teachings .i do listen to him along the way.. but he is not my hero so tim warner is your hero? i dont even know who he is

 

[jerry63935]

I don't agree with the above.
What does this have to do with Jesus going to make a home for us when we get to heaven?

lets break this down if i go prepare a place for you i will come get you 2 fold yes when we die we go to be with him. when he comes again he will take us out of this world .john 14 teaches both

 

[GodsGrace]

lets break this down if i go prepare a place for you i will come get you 2 fold yes when we die we go to be with him. when he comes again he will take us out of this world .john 14 teaches both

I'm sorry Jerry...I mis-spoke.
Jesus will go to prepare a place for us.
Agreed.

When we die we go to be with Him.
Agreed.

When He comes again He takes us out of this world.
Agreed.

Just to clarify...when Jesus comes again it'll be the end of the world.

 

[jerry63935]

Does he teach that the resurrection, rapture and destruction of the antichrist occurs at His coming?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17




JLB

he is pre trib you know what he teaches and you also know where i stand i dont teach or preach pre mid or trib. i preach be ready . i have also said i could be wrong---you could be wrong. if we are Children of the day then it darkness will not over take us. no i dont believe when the real things is going on that we will be here . Jesus said this is just the beginning of sorrows . i do believe things are going to escalate . this virus is about as bad as we have seen it . am i concerned over world events? you betta . when it comes to the wrath of God being poured out men wanting to die but cAN'T..NO I DON'T believe when his full wrath is come .that the Church will be hire. i have heard all kinds of teachings . what i believe belongs to me not any one else

 

[jerry63935]

.when Jesus comes again it'll be the end of the world.

when he returns i will be out of here . i dont have to face the wrath of God ..just call me gone

 

[GodsGrace]

when he returns i will be out of here . i dont have to face the wrath of God ..just call me gone

LOL
OK Jerry.
There is disagreement on this.
I don't believe there will be any rapture and it was not taught till the 1800's.
But it's no problem if you want to believe it.
I think the end will come when it does....and, as my husband says,
every day it's the end of the world for some people.

 

[jerry63935]

LOL
OK Jerry.
There is disagreement on this.
I don't believe there will be any rapture and it was not taught till the 1800's.
But it's no problem if you want to believe it.
I think the end will come when it does....and, as my husband says,
every day it's the end of the world for some people.

the word rapture it self is not in the Bible The term comes from a Latin word meaning “a carrying off, a transport, or a snatching away.” you dont believe that we will be took off his earth /the meeting in the air ? disagreements are ok a sign in a church reda if everyone in this Church was just like me. what kind of Church would this be? we can take that as a wake up call to live .better or what would it be if you believed just like me.... its when we get to the point you have to believe like me to be part of my group.
paul disagreed with barnabas wanting to take mark with them. so they went there separate ways . after a period of time paul wrote bring mark he is profitable .

i would like to read what you believe

 

[jasonc]

the word rapture it self is not in the Bible The term comes from a Latin word meaning “a carrying off, a transport, or a snatching away.” you dont believe that we will be took off his earth /the meeting in the air ? disagreements are ok a sign in a church reda if everyone in this Church was just like me. what kind of Church would this be? we can take that as a wake up call to live .better or what would it be if you believed just like me.... its when we get to the point you have to believe like me to be part of my group.
paul disagreed with barnabas wanting to take mark with them. so they went there separate ways . after a period of time paul wrote bring mark he is profitable .

i would like to read what you believe

pope is the antichrist, and John calvin is the false prophet.lol

 

[JLB]

if we are Children of the day then it darkness will not over take us.

We have been given the power and authority to overcome... those who choose to walk according to the Spirit will overcome.



He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:7-8


JLB

 

[JLB]

i have also said i could be wrong---you could be wrong.

Wrong about what?

All I stated is the three things that the Bible plainly says about His coming.

It’s not a I’m right your wrong thing.

It’s simply reading what the scripture says and believing it.




The Rapture takes place just after the Resurrection of the dead in Christ, at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



The other main thing that happens at His coming is the destruction of the antichrist.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

pope is the antichrist, and John calvin is the false prophet.lol

sounds about right

 

[jerry63935]

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

these are children of the dark

 

[jerry63935]

Wrong about what?

come on you know exactly what the discussion is .pre trib mid trib or trib rapture . for the most its about pre trib ..so i dont need to elaborate or the who might be wrong as in when. pre mid or trib.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How can pretrib teaches ignore that which is clearly given and explained by Christ Himself. This also includes Rev 19.

Let's also throw in:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is only one resurrection when Christ returns on the last day being the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation. Those who are Christ own will be caught up to meet Him in the air. Those who are not of Christ are His enemies and are damned and reserved unto the day of judgement, 2 Peter 2:9.

The first six trumpets have a beginning and an end, but the seventh trumpet has a beginning, but no end. Everything from Rev 11:10 - Rev Chapter 20 happens after the seventh trumpet is sounded and all done in God's timing.

The seventh trumpet includes, the son of perdition/last antichrist/false prophet taking his eat in Jerusalem causing all to take his mark or die a martyr's death. This is where the fellow servants that are mentioned in Rev 6:9-11 will be fulfilled, Rev 13. Then there are the seven vial judgements poured out on those who took the mark of the beast. The great harlot and mystery Babylon is described and destroyed, Rev 17, 18. Then comes the marriage supper of the Lamb as Christ returns in the air with His army who are the angels sent out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him, Matthew 24:29-31. From the air He takes the beast and false prophet alive and cast them into the lake of fire and those political leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are slain by the words Jesus speaks. Jesus returns with us when He plants His feet on the Mt of Olives for the final battle ans Satan is cast into the lake of fire, Rev 19. Next the Great White throne judgement comes and the books are opened and those who are the enemies of God and His Son Christ Jesus are cast into the lake of fire. This present heaven and earth passes away and renewed again as God ushers down the New Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[jerry63935]

Revelation 3:10 English Standard Version (ESV)
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

that is just 2 scriptures the so called pretribbers base off
1 Thessalonians 5:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[daninthelionsden]

see this is the problem it has to be debated david jeremiah is in calif ,let me correct you he is not MY PRE TRIB HERO . i respect his teachings .i do listen to him along the way.. but he is not my hero so tim warner is your hero? i dont even know who he is

Tim Warner is a pastor and is well grounded in Greek, Hebrew and Early Church teachings/beliefs. He founded the Pristine Faith and Restoration Society in a effort to bring the Church back to its roots. It's OK, I never heard of David Jeremiah either. Also......any debate would have to be a virtual online affair with each party at their own geographic location using a program utilizing real-time interaction. I can't think of the name of the one their using for interviews right now.

 

[JLB]

these are children of the dark

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:6-8


God offers to give freely to those whose thirst, the water of life, that they may overcome.

Those who overcome are called children of God.


JLB

 

[JLB]

come on you know exactly what the discussion is .pre trib mid trib or trib rapture . for the most its about pre trib ..so i dont need to elaborate or the who might be wrong as in when. pre mid or trib.

The thing is, I haven’t mentioned the word tribulation.

I’m only stating what the scripture so plainly says.

It’s as if you are reading what I post and saying
“Maybe I’m right, or maybe I’m wrong”, as if the truth about these things is somehow hidden.

It’s as plain as day.

From this simple verse we are taught the resurrection and the rapture occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Very simple and easy to understand.


Wouldn’t you agree?


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

I haven’t mentioned the word tribulation.

and i believe the great tribulation starts when the church is took out. i do not believe. we the Church will face the wrath .as described in the book of revelation men wanting the rocks to fall on them .men seeking death but dont die
Revelation 6:16

“And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:”
Revelation 9:6

“And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9
The New King James Version
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, mbut to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
i also see the rapture being taken out . and the return of Christ two separate events// what i do not give is time line this does not make me pre or mid trib. it makes be need to be ready
Luke 21:34

“And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.”

being a child of God walking in the Light that day will not be unaware

 

[GodsGrace]

the word rapture it self is not in the Bible The term comes from a Latin word meaning “a carrying off, a transport, or a snatching away.” you dont believe that we will be took off his earth /the meeting in the air ? disagreements are ok a sign in a church reda if everyone in this Church was just like me. what kind of Church would this be? we can take that as a wake up call to live .better or what would it be if you believed just like me.... its when we get to the point you have to believe like me to be part of my group.
paul disagreed with barnabas wanting to take mark with them. so they went there separate ways . after a period of time paul wrote bring mark he is profitable .

i would like to read what you believeffff

Hi Jerry,
What I believe is very simple, based on scripture and also on what happened in Jerusalem in 70AD and which Jesus foretold would happen.

I know that the word RAPTURE is not in the N.T. This is NOT why I do not believe in a rapture of saved Christians. The idea of a rapture does seem to be in the N.T. but I believe the verses are not understood in terms of the times of that age....which we would call hermeneutics in exegeting the texts.

Very clearly and simply,,,this is what believe, which is supported by church theologians and not of my own making:

The end of the world will come one day.
Jesus will return.
The dead in Christ (who have been buried already) will be resurrected to their glorified bodies. They will already be in heaven with God in Spirit,,,but their bodies will now join them.

Then those that are still alive on earth will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and they also will receive their glorified bodies.

All together we will go to be in heaven, not just in our Spirit selves, but also in our glorified bodies. Everyone that ever lived that was a believer....together with Christ.

I do NOT believe that we will be taken away so as not to be part of the "great tribulation".
If there's going to be a great tribulation - which is most probable - I think we will certainly be part of it.

I think that this teaching, which did NOT exist in the early church, became very popular because it offers comfort to believers with the hope that they will not be a part of the tribulation.

Now, as also for_his_glory believes, I think this is a very dangerous doctrine.
If there is no rapture,,,what will happen to the faith of those Christians that thought Jesus would take them away beforehand? They will most probably lose their faith and with it their salvation.
(or maybe not...maybe God will be merciful with them..we cannot know this).

I hope this was clear.
I also don't really care that we all agree on everything...but I did say WHY I think it might be dangerous to teach this rapture idea.