The Rapture Deception

[for_his_glory]

From my understanding, they believe Jesus is coming back two times....
Once for the saved Christians and then again at the end of times.
I agree with you...nowhere does the N.T. speak of two returns.

There is a very valid reason why Jesus says that one will be taken and one will be left....
the FORTUNATE one will be left...the one taken will be killed by the Roman Empire.
WHERE THE VULTURES FLY....where the dead bodies are of those killed. (Luke 17:37)

An answer from the other member would have been interesting...but there is no answer.
That verse makes no sense in the pre-trib scenario.

Matthew 24:36-51 no man knows the day or the hour of Christ return, but back tract to vs. 29-31 Jesus gave a great sign to watch for and then will the dead in Christ rise first and we which are still alive at His coming will be gathered up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air on the last day after the seventh trumpet is sounded, Johm 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Rev 19.

Christ coming will be like that of the days of Noah before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark and knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Two men in the field two women grinding at the mill represents all who are still alive at the coming of Christ on the last day. One is taken being caught up to Christ with all that are His own as their names are written in the Lamb's book of life. One, represents all those who have rejected God and His Son Christ Jesus. They are the enemies of God as they become the footstool of Christ Jesus when He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives.

Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. They are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after he is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9.

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthew 24:36-51 no man knows the day or the hour of Christ return, but back tract to vs. 29-31 Jesus gave a great sign to watch for and then will the dead in Christ rise first and we which are still alive at His coming will be gathered up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air on the last day after the seventh trumpet is sounded, Johm 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Rev 19.

Christ coming will be like that of the days of Noah before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark and knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Two men in the field two women grinding at the mill represents all who are still alive at the coming of Christ on the last day. One is taken being caught up to Christ with all that are His own as their names are written in the Lamb's book of life. One, represents all those who have rejected God and His Son Christ Jesus. They are the enemies of God as they become the footstool of Christ Jesus when He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives.

Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. They are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after he is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9.

FHG
I know the above is the view of many.
To me it's just much more simple, as I stated in the post before this one.
I agree with 1 Thes 4:13-18 but I just don't see what you do because of my problem understanding Revelation. I've never studied that book. This is why I say I'm very bad with eschatology.

The most simple answer always seems to be right to me.
I'm not saying you're wrong...I just don't know for sure.

 

[jerry63935]

because of my problem understanding Revelation. I've never studied that book. This is why I say I'm very bad with eschatology.

its good to study for your self/ there is a blessing for reading it. the only problem with revelations is when we interpret it and our interpretation is rock solid. i respect David Jeremiah very much.. he could be wrong on his interpretation as well as anyone else. what we can say and be %100 correct he is coming again to take us out of this world

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
i like the song the king is coming

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG
I know the above is the view of many.
To me it's just much more simple, as I stated in the post before this one.
I agree with 1 Thes 4:13-18 but I just don't see what you do because of my problem understanding Revelation. I've never studied that book. This is why I say I'm very bad with eschatology.

The most simple answer always seems to be right to me.
I'm not saying you're wrong...I just don't know for sure.

Studying Revelation is not for everyone and that's OK as it takes so much dedication researching the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation plus the various history's and cultures of every era. It's taken me 22 years so far and hundreds of notes to put it all together in a book I have been writing for the past few years. The book is more for my own reference for what I share in the forums as some things are my own writings from scripture and others writings that I have had permission to use in the book, but can not reply with as it would come against the ToS. Not sure if I will ever get it published, but if I do and it sells all the proceeds will go to a few charities I help support.

 

[daninthelionsden]

From my understanding, they believe Jesus is coming back two times....
Once for the saved Christians and then again at the end of times.
I agree with you...nowhere does the N.T. speak of two returns.

There is a very valid reason why Jesus says that one will be taken and one will be left....
the FORTUNATE one will be left...the one taken will be killed by the Roman Empire.
WHERE THE VULTURES FLY....where the dead bodies are of those killed. (Luke 17:37)

An answer from the other member would have been interesting...but there is no answer.
That verse makes no sense in the pre-trib scenario.

Yeah, I knew you were wanting an answer from a pre-tribber, ......they have no answer. I found by talking to many of them that they really do WANT to believe in pre-trib because the alternative is unbearable to them. Thus the great falling away. Yet, we cannot sit on our high horse because what's coming could make anyone fall away regardless of what they believe. We will be tested. We pray for wisdom, discernment, perseverence, patience, understanding etc that we may prevail til the End.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah, I knew you were wanting an answer from a pre-tribber, ......they have no answer. I found by talking to many of them that they really do WANT to believe in pre-trib because the alternative is unbearable to them. Thus the great falling away. Yet, we cannot sit on our high horse because what's coming could make anyone fall away regardless of what they believe. We will be tested. We pray for wisdom, discernment, perseverence, patience, understanding etc that we may prevail til the End.

Amen brother.
Agreed.

 

[GodsGrace]

Studying Revelation is not for everyone and that's OK as it takes so much dedication researching the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation plus the various history's and cultures of every era. It's taken me 22 years so far and hundreds of notes to put it all together in a book I have been writing for the past few years. The book is more for my own reference for what I share in the forums as some things are my own writings from scripture and others writings that I have had permission to use in the book, but can not reply with as it would come against the ToS. Not sure if I will ever get it published, but if I do and it sells all the proceeds will go to a few charities I help support.

That's pretty impressive!
I've done this with other topics (not 22 years worth!) but I'll never do this for eschatology.
I do wish you could share some of what you've gleaned. But, of course, you can't. I do wish you lots of good fortune with that project. If God is willing.....may it be so.

 

[GodsGrace]

its good to study for your self/ there is a blessing for reading it. the only problem with revelations is when we interpret it and our interpretation is rock solid. i respect David Jeremiah very much.. he could be wrong on his interpretation as well as anyone else. what we can say and be %100 correct he is coming again to take us out of this world

But when Jesus says He goes to prepare a place for us...
I believe He is speaking about the end of the world.
OR,,,upon our death when we go to be with Him.
He will have a "home" ready for us.
This is meant for everyone...not those that are supposed to be raptured.

 

[jerry63935]

Yeah, I knew you were wanting an answer from a pre-tribber, ......they have no answer. I found by talking to many of them that they really do WANT to believe in pre-trib because the alternative is unbearable to them.

i wouldnt flatter my self i know many pre tribbers that will more than stand there ground. my self i dont claim to be either /i am more of be ready. in fact youtube david jeremiah. he has all kinds of end time videos.

 

[jerry63935]

But when Jesus says He goes to prepare a place for us...
I believe He is speaking about the end of the world.
OR,,,upon our death when we go to be with Him.
He will have a "home" ready for us.
This is meant for everyone...not those that are supposed to be raptured.

ok you can reject that but that is telling of his return period...
Acts 1:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[daninthelionsden]

i wouldnt flatter my self i know many pre tribbers that will more than stand there ground. my self i dont claim to be either /i am more of be ready. in fact youtube david jeremiah. he has all kinds of end time videos.

Hmmmm, your "flatter myself" statement only appears to hold water if you conveniently leave out the entirety of my post and cherry pick what you wanted to comment on. This is the problem I see with pre-trib. The tendency to do this with the Word of God seems prevalent in the pre-trib teachings. Leaving out verses that punch holes right through pre-trib are intentionally/passively left out in order to push through a teaching that simply can't hold water when the Word of God is taken in its entirety as intended.
As for any of us claiming we or anybody else will sacrifice their lives when/if that day arrives is lying to themselves and/or others. None of us knows for a surety how we will respond. Talk is cheap. We can strive and intend and prepare ourselves in the hope we will do what is required. Prayer, obedience and training ourselves in the Word with reliance upon the Holy Spirit is our best preparation.

 

[jerry63935]

Hmmmm, your "flatter myself" statement only appears to hold water if you conveniently leave out the entirety of my post and cherry pick what you wanted to comment on.

i read your full post you seemed to think the pre tribbers could not properly defend there belief . i in return told you the ones i know could more than. so i cherry picked nothing

 

[jerry63935]

while i cant say that i am a pre trib i challenge you to listen to david jeremiah he is very well versed

 

[JLB]

i wouldnt flatter my self i know many pre tribbers that will more than stand there ground. my self i dont claim to be either /i am more of be ready. in fact youtube david jeremiah. he has all kinds of end time videos.

I wonder how many people are ready for what is coming before His coming?


Its good to know the truth, that the resurrection of the dead in Christ, rapture, as well as the destruction of the antichrist all occur at His coming.


Therefore we all who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will endure all the things He mentioned as signs that would precede His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


It’s amazing to me to think that people could still believe and teach a ”pretrib” rapture, when we have the truth to teach us.


The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Anyone who is honest and desires to know the truth can read this verse, and come away with knowing that Jesus gathers His Church at His coming.

• The resurrection occurs first at His coming.
• Then the rapture occurs at His coming.
• Finally the destruction of the wicked, including the antichrist occur at His coming.

Armed with this truth, there is no excuse to be confused about when the resurrection and rapture occur; at His coming.


Armed with this truth, there is no excuse to be confused about when the antichrist will be destroyed; at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

while i cant say that i am a pre trib i challenge you to listen to david jeremiah he is very well versed

Does he teach that the resurrection, rapture and destruction of the antichrist occurs at His coming?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

ok you can reject that but that is telling of his return period...
Acts 1:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

I don't agree with the above.
What does this have to do with Jesus going to make a home for us when we get to heaven?

 

[JLB]

ok you can reject that but that is telling of his return period...
Acts 1:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Yes, all will see Him when He returns.


No secret, invisible return.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

jerry63935

I mis-spoke....
I meant that I DO agree that Jesus is coming back from whence He ascended.

Sorry 'bout that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, all will see Him when He returns.


No secret, invisible return.



JLB

Agreed....I made a mistake in my post just above yours.
Scripture plainly states that Jesus will return from where He ascended.

 

[daninthelionsden]

while i cant say that i am a pre trib i challenge you to listen to david jeremiah he is very well versed

Having been raised in a pre-trib family and church, there's not much if anything new I would think David Jeremiah can say/teach that I haven't already heard. So, instead of me listening to your pre-trib hero David Jeremiah or you listening to my post-trib hero Tim Warner of the Oasis Christian Church, why don't you see if David Jeremiah will debate Tim Warner at virtual debate via Youtube? I know Tim has openly debated several pre-trib teachers.