The Rapture is wrong !

[jasoncran]

there is no mention of that clearly. the dead in Christ taken with the words of jesus about the resurrection given to the saducees. I am the God of Isaac, Jacob and Abraham. they were Not dead to god but alive.

 

[Guest]

there is no mention of that clearly.

There is no mention of what?

 

[jasoncran]

there is no mention of that clearly.

There is no mention of what?

soul sleep. the problem you have is that we can look at what sheol is and know that It had to be similar to the idea of hades or it wouldn't be used as a word in the lxx. we also can as I have posted lately the ideas on sheol. that cant be simply a grave and also the idea of paradise is still found in the jewish rabbis teachings.it may not be the exact same as it was then but that thief had to know what paradise is somewhat to assured where he would be going. today means today. if he sleeps awaiting a resurrection then so does jesus as that is where he went too!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

there is no mention of that clearly.

There is no mention of what?

soul sleep.

Scripture on soul sleep. Psalm 115:17 The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. Matthew 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. John 11:11-14 After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.†The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.†Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, Mark 5:39 And when he had entered, he said to them, “Why are you making a commotion and weeping? The child is not dead but sleeping.â€

 

[jasoncran]

so jesus slept in paradise when he said today you will be with me? he died? where did he go on that day?

"today you shall be with me in paradise" that is in response" remember me when YOU enter into your kingdom" so jesus just sleep for three days?does today mean today to you? or some time in the future?

 

[jasoncran]

jews consider heaven(gan eden) so blissful its like being in a dream and thus a sleep.

 

[Guest]

so jesus slept in paradise when he said today you will be with me? he died? where did he go on that day?

"today you shall be with me in paradise" that is in response" remember me when YOU enter into your kingdom" so jesus just sleep for three days?does today mean today to you? or some time in the future?

You're forgetting that time doesn't exist when you're dead.

 

[jasoncran]

so jesus slept in paradise when he said today you will be with me? he died? where did he go on that day?

"today you shall be with me in paradise" that is in response" remember me when YOU enter into your kingdom" so jesus just sleep for three days?does today mean today to you? or some time in the future?

You're forgetting that time doesn't exist when you're dead.

oh please.

reconcile this verse
1 SAM 2:6 YLT

6 Jehovah putteth to death, and keepeth alive, He bringeth down to Sheol, and bringeth up.

what is sheol? is a grave then if its just sleep then tell me why didn't the Hebrew mention the word grave here? while some version say that but its not the word used. queber is the word for grave.

 

[Guest]

reconcile this verse
1 SAM 2:6 YLT

6 Jehovah putteth to death, and keepeth alive, He bringeth down to Sheol, and bringeth up.

what is sheol? is a grave then if its just sleep then tell me why didn't the Hebrew mention the word grave here? while some version say that but its not the word used. queber is the word for grave.

Scroll down and read Gill's Exposition & Jamieson-Fausset-Brown..http://biblehub.com/1_samuel/2-6.htm

Also notice 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 says we shall not all sleep and at the last trumpet.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] why would God send people to hell for a longer period, simply because they were born before us.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] why would God send people to hell for a longer period, simply because they were born before us.

sir, no one is in hell. the lake of fire judgement hasn't occurred. the three locations of the dead souls are: hades(sheol),death and the sea.

 

[jasoncran]

paul means that we shall not all be dead when he returns. what is sheol? answer that or ignore it and weaken your argument.

 

[JohnD]

The rapture is not wrong, but it is not what most people believe it is.

First of all, I used to be puzzled by the way all three major eschatology camps have been able to quote scriptures to support their views. This would seem to be a place where scripture contradicts itself. Scripture does not contradict itself... we just do not have or apply all the information the rest of the Bible supplies when we come upon what only appears to be a contradiction. That or we misapply methods of interpretation (is the text literal or metaphor or irony or introducing a greater depth on a subject)...

In this case, the Spirit led me to grant all three camps as correct with regards to the timing of the one rapture event. Then he showed me that the camps misunderstand the time frame (specifically the 70th Week of Daniel)... which they interpret to be one seven-year tribulation.

Several scriptures prophesy that this time period rather is one seven-year period of two three-and-a-half-year tribulations (plural). The great tribulation is only the latter half of the 70th Week of Daniel. The tribulation in the front half is that of believers.

Revelation 13:5-10 (KJV)
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Revelation 12:17 (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 3:10 (KJV)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


The time of the patience and faith of the saints would be a good name for it.



The mark of the beast 666 is a symbol used for tracking down the one people who will not receive it... the saints.



Remember people without the mark will not be able to buy or sell or reveal themselves and will go into hiding... and by the time the rapture comes (3.5 years into the 70th week) survivors will be few and so deep in hiding as not to be missed when they vanish... and since the beast will have proceeded with plan B of his take over, the saints will be believed to have already been exterminated....


I will insert a chart I've created in the bottom of this post if it is permitted by TOS....



Daniel 12:11-12 (KJV)
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


So, the rapture of the few survivors in deep hiding will be:


PRE-great tribulation

MID-70th Week of Daniel

POST-believers' tribulation


This is not tradition mid trib since that position also holds to a single 7-year tribulation period which makes no sense that God would exact his wrath on a people he promised he would not (having dealt with his wrath for them and for us on the cross of Christ).



Tribulation 1 the devils wrath against God (through believers)

Tribulation 2 God's wrath against the devil and unbelievers.

View attachment 3356

click on to enlarge
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[JLB]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] why would God send people to hell for a longer period, simply because they were born before us.

sir, no one is in hell. the lake of fire judgement hasn't occurred. the three locations of the dead souls are: hades(sheol),death and the sea.

I guess the Rich man didn't get your memo.

JLB

 

[JohnD]

Luke 16:19-31 (NASB95)
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 “And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22 “Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 “In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’
25 “But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
27 “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—
28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
30 “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’
31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”


Sheol is a holding pattern until the general resurrection (Revelation 20 11-15 to fulfill Philippians 2:10-11).

View attachment 3357

Abraham's Bosom has been empty since the cross (Ephesians 4:8-10) and all the disembodied spirits of the OT believers and NT believers since then are in heaven with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-8) where they are among the one and only resurrected man (Jesus himself) awaiting his return (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 / 1 Corinthians 15:51-58) when Jesus returns as the Jews who survive to that point in history cry out to Jesus for saving from the world pressing in to annihilate them...
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[Guest]

paul means that we shall not all be dead when he returns. what is sheol? answer that or ignore it and weaken your argument.

you're changing the subject, we're talking about soul sleep. why should i weaken my argument after post#144. ;)

 

[mondar]

The rapture or the rupture as I call it is a myth and a fairy tale and an old wives tale.
People who are untrained and unlearned act as if they understand the Bible.
To escape the wrath to come they invent the rapture.
One simple scripture shoots down the rapture in flames!.............

Elvispelvis, why don't you start out by telling us what you really think about the rapture? Please don't hold back so much.

 

[jasoncran]

paul means that we shall not all be dead when he returns. what is sheol? answer that or ignore it and weaken your argument.

you're changing the subject, we're talking about soul sleep. why should i weaken my argument after post#144. ;)

you then have weakening your argument as sheol has no implication of sleeping souls in it but men in torment depending on what level they are at. some if did have the righteous there as a purgatory and also the worst of worst locked in torment for the final judgement. you have failed there.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] why would God send people to hell for a longer period, simply because they were born before us.

sir, no one is in hell. the lake of fire judgement hasn't occurred. the three locations of the dead souls are: hades(sheol),death and the sea.

I guess the Rich man didn't get your memo.

JLB

fine. the ylt and revalation will tell the truth.

hades is what? and where?
luke 16.

And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham -- and the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom,

and then this.

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;
13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works

revalation 20. has this above happened yet?? so therefore the man in sheol cant be in hell which is what I said.

 

[JLB]

fine. the ylt and revalation will tell the truth.

hades is what? and where?
luke 16.

And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham -- and the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom,

and then this.

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;
13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works

revalation 20. has this above happened yet?? so therefore the man in sheol cant be in hell which is what I said.

Revelation 20 proves there are people in hell right now, just as Jesus said in Luke 16.


JLB