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The Rapture: Pre-trib, mid or post... what's your opinion

Shilohsfoal said:
You left out no rapture.
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The Resurrection and Rapture occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52



The Resurrection of the dead in Christ happens first, then those who are alive and remain will be caught up (raptured) together with them.


For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17






JLB
 
Dorothy Mae said:
How about no Trib? The “rapture” verses describe the Resurrection where the dead rise first. The time of great tribulation happened long ago. So good news, it isn’t on the horizon.
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Hi, so the antichrist has already shown up, and the false prophet as well in the first century and are now dead?

So if money becomes entirely digital world-wide and the only way we can buy and sell is getting some sort of mark on/in our right hand or forehead, you'll take that mark because you won't think that's the mark of the beast?

❧
 
I think it may be pre tribulation? Just not solid on that. I spoke with pastors about the end times and some have told me even sinners will still have the chance to be saved all the way till the end of time.

So if sinners can still be saved and then gods people are gone pre trib. then who is left for a witness?
 
I was brought up believing in pre-trib. I then married into the SDA and my views changed.
I realized that pre-trib theology is based on one single verse and it contradicts Jesus' description of persecution before the end. Pre-trib doesn't appear in Revelation, we are not exempt from persecution, and 7 years does not appear in Revelation.
 
2nd Time's the Charm said:
Hi, so the antichrist has already shown up, and the false prophet as well in the first century and are now dead?
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Yes long ago and the “Beast” was worse than any modern despot.
2nd Time's the Charm said:
So if money becomes entirely digital world-wide and the only way we can buy and sell is getting some sort of mark on/in our right hand or forehead, you'll take that mark because you won't think that's the mark of the beast?
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Did you know that Revelation speaks of “putting a mark” on the believers? This isn’t like a farmer branding his animals. It’s something deeper than skin. The righteous and damned aren’t divided by which has what tatoo.

But it is an interesting topic.
 
rdclmn72 said:
I was brought up believing in pre-trib. I then married into the SDA and my views changed.
I realized that pre-trib theology is based on one single verse and it contradicts Jesus' description of persecution before the end. Pre-trib doesn't appear in Revelation, we are not exempt from persecution, and 7 years does not appear in Revelation.
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Persecution has nothing to do with it.
I've never understood this concept of persecution being a far away future realm never yet come to earth.
The Christians being beheaded , imprisoned , gang raped, outcast in the world today can testify to the ignorance inherent in such a belief .
At least the ones that have not been led to the slaughter already could.
99 % of Jesus's own 12 Apostles were tortured and murdered, boiled in oil, right from the git go.
Satan is already here , and is the Prince of this world you are walking on today .
That's a yes or a no by the way?
The error that is implicit in a tribulation theology is that not only are you not satisfied with Satan being the current spiritual prince of this world , by definition then you are now looking, anticipating the incarnate manifestation Satan.
Expecting, looking , anticipating Satan's appearance to the deference of Christ's appearance in naked , unmasked infidelity.
Today you are either anticipating the coming of the one who comes from God, or you are living in apprehension & anticipating of the one who comes from Satan.
Those are the only two options.
For me I will throw off the looking & anticipating the coming of the one from Satan, in favor of looking for One that comes from God.
The traceable spiritual failure inherent in tribulation theology is belief that the physical presence of Satan somehow presents more of a threat to the unshakable Calm of Heaven in believers then that which fills the soul in every believer today who is currently being beheaded , burned alive, imprisoned, gang raped , etc,etc,etc, & etc...
The belief that the unshakeable Calm of Heaven can be made wobbly and insufficient in the Saved merely because of Satan's future manifestation is a confession of God's wavering unreliabilyt & nothing more than unmasked infidelity.

" And NOW what is my hope?
O Lord my hope is in you." ( Psalm 39:8)
 
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miamited said:
HI Consecrated Life

So you think the persecution that is to be worse than it ever has been or ever will be, has already come upon us? I have to agree with you, I don't think you do understand the concept of persecution.

God bless,
Ted
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Go on then?
Describe being worse than beheaded, forced to watch family being gang raped and then beheaded , being burned alive etc.etc.etc.
Don't just silently nibble at the edges .
Don't go away all wobbly and frightened to say.
Speak up if you can?
 
Consecrated Life said:
Go on then?
Describe being worse than beheaded, forced to watch family being gang raped and then beheaded , being burned alive etc.etc.etc.
Don't just silently nibble at the edges .
Don't go away all wobbly and frightened to say.
Speak up if you can?
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What is worse than those things is the wrath of God which takes place during the great tribulation.
The persecution prior to the great tribulation takes place the 3.5 years prior to God's wrath.
The persecution of the saints during this 3.5 time period is well documented in scripture.
 
Consecrated Life said:
Go on then?
Describe being worse than beheaded, forced to watch family being gang raped and then beheaded , being burned alive etc.etc.etc.
Don't just silently nibble at the edges .
Don't go away all wobbly and frightened to say.
Speak up if you can?
Click to expand...
Hi Consecrated Life

Do you take drugs for your emotional stability, my friend. You're really in full attack mode right now.

I've read the book! I don't know how bad it's going to be! What I know is that Jesus has said that it' going to be a time in which persecution is greater than it ever has been or ever will be. How bad is that going to be? Well, the only sure answer I can give you, based on my understanding of the Scriptures, is that it's going to be worse than any of those things you've thrown out so far.

Where are you coming from with this attack that I'm not going to stand and give answers to my posts? Frightened and wobbly? Is that the best the Holy Spirit could give you? Or is that the best you were able to come up with on your own?

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited said:
Hi Consecrated Life

Do you take drugs for your emotional stability, my friend. You're really in full attack mode right now.

I've read the book! I don't know how bad it's going to be! What I know is that Jesus has said that it' going to be a time in which persecution is greater than it ever has been or ever will be. How bad is that going to be? Well, the only sure answer I can give you, based on my understanding of the Scriptures, is that it's going to be worse than any of those things you've thrown out so far.

Where are you coming from with this attack that I'm not going to stand and give answers to my posts? Frightened and wobbly? Is that the best the Holy Spirit could give you? Or is that the best you were able to come up with on your own?

God bless,
Ted
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I hope your aware that the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24 takes place AFTER the persecution of the saints.
The saints are saved during the great tribulation.That is when they are delivered.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
I hope your aware that the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24 takes place AFTER the persecution of the saints.
The saints are saved during the great tribulation.That is when they are delivered.
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Hi Shilohsfoal

You're sure about that, are you? So, we're never going to see the Anti-christ. That's a good thing!

God bless,
Ted
 
Shilohsfoal said:
What is worse than those things is the wrath of God which takes place during the great tribulation.
The persecution prior to the great tribulation takes place the 3.5 years prior to God's wrath.
The persecution of the saints during this 3.5 time period is well documented in scripture.
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So give the "well documented" details and then explain the difference between those being killed then and those being killed today and throughout past history ?
 
Consecrated Life said:
Describe being worse than beheaded, forced to watch family being gang raped and then beheaded , being burned alive etc.etc.etc.
Click to expand...
Hi Consecrated Life

For the record, I don't think it's a matter that the manner of people's death or suffering in the tribulation will be different than people die or suffer today. It will be the quantity and the reason for such deaths that will make them days of tribulation like unto the world has never seen before, nor ever will again. Yes, in the days of the great tribulation, people will be killed by being burned and stabbed and strangled and beheaded and gored through and there may be some cases of believers having to watch their children raped before their very eyes.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited said:
Hi Shilohsfoal

You're sure about that, are you? So, we're never going to see the Anti-christ. That's a good thing!

God bless,
Ted
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I didn't say anything about an antichrist.
I said the great tribulation spoken of by Jesus in Mathew 24 takes place after the persecution of the saints.

And yes,Daniel states that take place in that order.
 
Consecrated Life said:
So give the "well documented" details and then explain the difference between those being killed then and those being killed today and throughout past history ?
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I didn't say anything about anyone persecuted in the past.
I said the persecution that takes place before the great tribulation is well documented in scripture.Here is just one example of that persecution.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

The great tribulation takes place after this persecution.

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
I didn't say anything about anyone persecuted in the past.
Here is just one example of that persecution.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
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All of which is happening today .
And happened yesterday and last year and the year before that and the decade before that.
Christians are the most martyred faith on the planet as it stands today.
Making it sound so disconnected to me when I hear tribulationists say " well we won't be protected from persecution in the tribulation"?
Well duh, really?
You mean just like the hundreds of millions of Christians that have been slaughtered so far, starting with the Apostles ?
Makes no sense to me as a tribulationist qualifier in terms of what hundreds of millions of Christians have endured right up today and will endure tomorrow.
The country of Afghanistan is being wiped clean of it's Christian population as we speak , if it hasn't been already.
As is going on in many other countries.

Jhn 15:20
" The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you"
 
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