The reason you cant lose your salvation is?.....

[Jethro Bodine]

Wow! I was off this thread for 24 hours and in that time you added 5 more pages of posts???

The Galatians point you made was a home run out of the park, but I think OSAS was off getting hot dogs and beer when that happened, lol.

I've made the observation that many Christians will be quick to negate any suggestion towards law keeping using what Paul said to the Galatians as their defense (that it's a damnable sin to go back to the law), but these very same Christians will insist OSAS is true and will say you are still saved if you fall from grace, and/or 2) true believers can't fall from grace.

Honestly, I get a chuckle out of it. Untwisting the tangled web of doctrine about law and grace that many Christians subscribe to these days has proven to be a very tedious and touchy thing to do for sure.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's not by salvation works, it's only by salvation grace and love.

Okay, it's your turn now. Please explain how 'continuing in faith' equates to the damnable works salvation gospel Paul warned against. Since when is faith in Christ included in the works that Paul says can not justify? Show me this in the Bible, please. It's important. I want to see it.

What do you know of his grace and love Jethro. You are trying to take credit for what Jesus did on the cross, it simply doesn't work that way.

Christ did my believing for me on the cross? Is there a chapter and verse for that?

Don't show me scriptures that explain how God provided the faith for me to then trust in Christ's blood. I know that. Show me where trusting in the work of Christ is also something that was done for me such that I had nothing to do with it that it should not be a 'work' that I had to do to be justified.

 

[jeff77]

I have never understood why the OSAS people say the non-OSAS are trying to get saved by works? I mean if I say "one cannot earn their salvation", that's what I mean. Yet some OSAS still somehow come to the conclusion that it's works?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Just so I won't be accused of creating arguments you don't have, are you of the OSAS persuasion that you can fall away from belief and still be saved, or of the persuasion that true believers can never fall away from their faith?

Dear Mr. Bodine, you could never argue with me.
I view everything you say as said in love, and I receive it in love.

I am of the persuasion that God will not lose any of us.
If we are truly saved, he will find a way to get us back in the end.
Moses ran away, Jonah ran away, David ran away, lots of people run away from God.
But if you belong to him, he will get you back.

Some people appear saved are not part of God's people.
How did they get there?
Did they not at some point say a salvation prayer, get baptized, seem to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Does not James 2:18; NIV tell us that these people have a head knowledge of Jesus but never receive him in their hearts?

I think there's a lot to be said about this, but in my heart, I know I belong to God.
I could never purposely sin without the need to repent.
I could never just walk away.
If people have my salvation, I don't see how they could feel differently.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

WRT the parable:
No it's not. They're your words not mine.

As for 1 Cor 15; if you exegete what Paul actually says, it is another one of Paul's OSAS doctrine passages, not my OSAS doctrine . I don't even really care if OSAS is true or not. I am willing to look at any passage objectively, one way or the other. I have no reason to be tied to OSAS. You can believe that or not. It's true, though. I can assure you, though, I don't hold to it so that I can eat and drink and do whatever I desire that's sinful. I know better. God's gonna discipline and reprove me, when I do because He loves me.

The point is, 1 Cor 15:2 (or parts thereof), is certainly not an anti-OSAS proof text.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2, 10, 14 Now I make known to you, brothers [I would never claim Paul's not talking to brothers, though he at times will talk about non-brothers], the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me has not been in vain, but I labored even more than all of them, and not I, but the grace of God with me.

But if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, and your faith is in vain. ​

Via Paul; the only way a 'Grace of God' filled believer is not being saved is if Christ has not been raised, which is absurd. That's his message to the church in Corinth in chapter 15:1-14, etc

Just like you ripped the "vomit you out of God's mouth' phrase out of it's true context and true message, you have now done the same for the 1 Cor 15:1-2a (partial verse).

You are saying that the little phrase in there "if you hold fast to the message" is an anti-OSAS verse. It's not. That's your cue to correct my misunderstanding of your post #161 if I've misunderstood your post.

Maybe I'm just plain dense and missed it, but, chessman, you still did not explain what 'if you hold fast to the message' means in regard to this being an OSAS passage.

"...by which also (the gospel he presented) you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you are saying that what this means is their holding fast is what shows they are genuinely reborn and their faith is not a deceitful false faith, but a genuine saving faith. Correct?

If that is correct, please weave the fact that they have NOT held fast to the message Paul preached to them into OSAS doctrine. Aren't they--according to OSAS doctrine--now showing themselves to not really have believed?

What does 'if you hold fast the word which I preached to you' mean in OSAS doctrine? The plain reading of the passage shows us that it means they must hold fast the word he originally preached to them to be saved by that word. Since your interpretation deviates from the plain reading of the passage it requires a little more than just a little thought to see your interpretaton that it doesn't really mean what the plain reading of the passage says, but, hey, maybe I'm just dense. Help me out.

What's the 'if'--the result of holding fast the word Paul preached to them? What is the word that Paul preached to them? Start there, please.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Does not James 2:18; NIV tell us that these people have a head knowledge of Jesus but never receive him in their hearts?

Well, actually, James is counseling them about their lack of works, not their faith. But what I would ask is what do we do with the passages in the Bible that talk about those who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ, yet trample it down in a conscious decision to reject the blood that sanctified them and go back to their sin? What do we do with those? Reinterpret them simply because we ourselves can't relate to how a person could do that? Is that honest?

I think there's a lot to be said about this, but in my heart, I know I belong to God.
I could never purposely sin without the need to repent.
I could never just walk away.
If people have my salvation, I don't see how they could feel differently.

My thoughts exactly. But I've learned as I've grown up and have been maturing in Christ that I can not measure everybody else according to my personal experience. I have come to the conclusion that doing that is to be in a very self-centered immature state--thinking that everybody else has to be like me, think like me, respond like me. When I realized that, and how wrong it is, I repented, and now I am careful to not assume everybody is, or has to be like me, spiritually, emotionally, or physically. I took perhaps the biggest leap of growth as a Christian when I did that. Honest. I'm not exaggerating.

I've had to honestly recognize that just because my own relationship with God is steadfast that doesn't mean everybody else's is (I had a very profound salvation experience). Add to that the Bible does clearly talk about people who forsake, and walk away from the grace of God they have. It's utterly amazing to me, but I have to be honest and see that the Bible talks about the reality of these very kinds of people. I can't relate, but I now know that doesn't negate the very different experience with God they are having.

 

[Deborah13]

I have never understood why the OSAS people say the non-OSAS are trying to get saved by works? I mean if I say "one cannot earn their salvation", that's what I mean. Yet some OSAS still somehow come to the conclusion that it's works?

I just really appreciate the way you have worded this post...
"Yet some OSAS still somehow come to the conclusion that it's works?"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I just really appreciate the way you have worded this post...
"Yet some OSAS still somehow come to the conclusion that it's works?"

I personally do not get defensive when someone speaks of the church in general knowing I just don't happen to fit into their generalization. Honest. It doesn't bother me. I know what generalizations mean. And more importantly, I know what is going on inside of me. And it's easy to show somebody you aren't included in their generalization.

Maybe that will help others to be able to deal more calmly with generalizations.

 

[Deborah13]

I personally do not get defensive when someone speaks of the church in general knowing I just don't happen to fit into their generalization. Honest. It doesn't bother me. I know what generalizations mean. And more importantly, I know what is going on inside of me. And it's easy to show somebody you aren't included in their generalization.

Maybe that will help others to be able to deal more calmly with generalizations.

Some people don't get defensive just for themselves.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Some people don't get defensive just for themselves.

You lost me. What does that mean?

 

[DRS81]

Okay, it's your turn now.

God's grace and love isn't something you read off a forum. It's an experience you go through and is with you until redemption. Are you a born again christian Jethro.

Eph 1:13-14 - How do we get out of this passage that keeping the promise and guarantee of our inheritance we have until our redemption is not contingent on continuing to believe?

Because the promise comes from God Jethro. We're not keeping the promise, God is! The promise is a gift from God. The words seal, promise and guarantee means what it means.

1 John 5:13 - Non-OSAS plainly says you have eternal life. But it tells the whole truth about it found in the Bible....that you must believe to the very end to enter into the eternal life that faith secured for you while in this life when you first believed.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means.

John 6:40 - Where do we learn in this passage that we don't have to continue to 'look to the Son and believe in him' to surely have and keep eternal life and be raised up at the last day? We don't. It is from the full counsel of the Word that we know that what Jesus said here is for the person who continues to look to the Son, not for the one who stops looking to the Son.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means.

John 1:12 - Which you will remain to be if you continue to believe to the very end.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means.

Rom 5:1 - Non-OSAS does not say otherwise. Justification is through faith in Christ, period. And the whole counsel of God tells us we have to continue to have faith to continue to have the justification that faith secures.

You're mistaking us continuing to have faith v.s. the convictions of the Holy Spirit. We are considered holy not because we continue in faith by anything we do but because the holy spirit is convicting us of righteousness. You're not giving any credit to the holy spirit. God loved us first before we loved him. When we come to faith we're putting our trust in Jesus Christ, not in ourselves. It's all about Him and what he did on the cross for us.

Rom 8:15-16 - Non-OSAS isn't about living in fear, or not knowing if you're truly saved, or not. Hardly true. The exact opposite is true. If you have faith you have the surety of salvation (meanwhile OSAS says you can't be sure because if you fail what you think is faith now will be shown to not have been faith at all. Now that's worthy of fear).
Having faith is what signifies the reality of your salvation, for that is the very thing you must do to have salvation. OUr faith is the surety of our salvation. But in OSAS faith is always suspect as being able to save because a future failure of faith will reveal it to not have been able to save all along. Faith is how we know we have what God has promised--faith expressed in love for others. In OSAS you don't know in this life if you really have the faith that secures what God has promised...unless you fail. And you can't say that you not failing proves you have it because there's always tomorrow to prove you wrong.

When we come to faith, God has adopted us as children of God. We are adopted into a heavenly and holy family. For example, one day we will see Peter and Paul on the new earth. Once you accepted Jesus as your savior, you welcomed Peter and Paul into your family. The definition of adoption is to choose or take as one's own. When parents adopt a baby, they're not raising them for 10 years and then when the child is 10 years old the parents decide to kick them to the curb, no. Adoption is permanent. John 14:18 says I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Gal 4:4-5 - As jocor pointed out, in the very same letter to the Galatians, who we know at the time of writing were indeed sons of God through faith, he warns them that they lose the justification they have in Christ if they return to reliance on the law for justification. This simple fact shows it's impossible to rely on the analogy of child bearing in this life and how a human child can never cease to be a child of the parents to illustrate that a son of God can never cease to be a son of God. The analogy of sonship is to illustrate closeness and intimacy to God by reason of birthright, not that sons of God can never cease to be sons because human sons can not literally cease to be sons of the parents.

When we come to faith, God has adopted us as children of God. We are adopted into a heavenly and holy family. For example, one day we will see Peter and Paul on the new earth. Once you accepted Jesus as your savior, you welcomed Peter and Paul into your family. The definition of adoption is to choose or take as one's own. When parents adopt a baby, they're not raising them for 10 years and then when the child is 10 years old the parents decide to kick them to the curb, no. Adoption is permanent. John 14:18 says I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

John 5:24 - Non-OSAS plainly says you have eternal life when you believe (just not in it's entirety). But as I say, the whole counsel of God shows us that you must continue to believe to the very end to continue to not be subject to condemnation and remain crossed over from death to life.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

Eph 1:3-5 - So which argument are you making? That everyone who believes was pre-programmed to believe before the creation of the world, therefore, it's impossible to reverse that predetermined pre-programming?

When we come to faith, God has adopted us as children of God. We are adopted into a heavenly and holy family. For example, one day we will see Peter and Paul on the new earth. Once you accepted Jesus as your savior, you welcomed Peter and Paul into your family. The definition of adoption is to choose or take as one's own. When parents adopt a baby, they're not raising them for 10 years and then when the child is 10 years old the parents decide to kick them to the curb, no. Adoption is permanent. John 14:18 says I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Luke 18:9-12 - I assume you are with Kidron on this one and insist that if you say you have to believe, and believe to the end to be saved in the end that you are trusting in a self-righteous work that can not justify. So I ask you, too, "what then do I have to do to be justified?"

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

 

[DRS81]

2 Cor 1:21-22 - I can't make myself stand firm in Christ. That's the point. Non-OSAS understands this perfectly. But why does not being able to do it myself mean I did absolutely nothing to have what God did through Christ for me to stand firm in Christ?

The words seal, ownership and gaurantee means what it means. Scripture speaks for itself. You are only firm in Christ because of Christ himself anointing you and giving you strength. The reason you are strong is not because of anything you did, it's because the holy spirit never leaves you. Physical strength and spiritual strength are not the same. 2 Cor 12:9-10 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Eph 4:30 - Why does OSAS add the suggestion that 'being sealed' means it can not be unsealed. When you seal your Tupperware tubs at home does that mean they can never be unsealed?

But look at what it says, it says "you were sealed for the day of redemption". The day of redemption will be at the first resurrection when we are delivered from sin completely. Praise God. It also says you were sealed, 'were' being past tense. It is finished!

1 Peter 1:5 - Through what, DRS81? What does it say that it is through that we are shielded by God's power by until the coming of the salvation in the last time?
This single verse defeats two contentions of OSAS--that you don't need faith to the end to be shielded (sealed) for salvation, and that salvation is also very much something to be given in the future, not just given to us in 'grapes of Eschol' now.

Believing IS having faith. We are only saved by HIS grace and THROUGH our faith. Believing and having faith only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off. Romans 10:9 isn't saying when you believe you will be saved and if you sin once you will lose your salvation, NO. Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 8:23 - Hmmm. While I agree that if you have faith now, you are indeed a son of God, can't you see in this verse that there's an element of sonship that is yet to come? IOW, our adoption as sons, secured by faith, is also a future event that has not happened yet. But OSAS insists that salvation is complete now, therefore, it is permanent.

When we come to faith, God has adopted us as children of God. We are adopted into a heavenly and holy family. For example, one day we will see Peter and Paul on the new earth. Once you accepted Jesus as your savior, you welcomed Peter and Paul into your family. The definition of adoption is to choose or take as one's own. When parents adopt a baby, they're not raising them for 10 years and then when the child is 10 years old the parents decide to kick them to the curb, no. Adoption is permanent. John 14:18 says I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

1 Cor 6:9-11 - The Hebrews were also sanctified by the blood of Christ (Hebrews 10:26,29 NASB), yet the author warns them to not trample on that blood by purposely choosing to sin and lose the only sacrifice for sin there is to cover that sin.

Notice it says that some of you were. Were is past tense, why is it past tense? Because you were washed, sanctified and justified just like scripture says. You are no longer of the world, you simply live IN the world. Being washed, sanctified and justified comes with believing and having faith. And all one needs to do is believe and have faith ONCE. (And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.)

John 3:16-17 - Right....'for whoever believes in him'. But how is it that OSAS claims that since salvation is so utterly not of works (that is, not of what you do) that, technically, you really don't even have to continue to believe to not perish and have eternal life? But I know that when pressed about it OSAS will then argue that a believer can never stop believing.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

Eph 2:4-9 - But where does it say that the trusting we do through God's gracious gift of faith is actually a damnable work of self righteousness? It doesn't. Nor does any other scripture. But OSAS insists that if I say I believe in the blood because God gave me the free gift of faith to do that, that I'm guilty of trusting in a self righteous work to be saved. But I do know where it says that doing works of the law to justified/ saved is self righteous and can not save. That is what I see in scripture.

Once you believed and had faith that Jesus was your savior, you put your trust in him. You put your trust in HIM! Putting your trust in Jesus isn't a damnable work of self righteousness, it's a sign of humility! Jesus dying on the cross was the most selfless act a human being ever committed! You only need to put your trust in Jesus ONCE, and he will never leave you nor forsake you. That's why the gospel of salvation is good news Jethro. Hebrews 13:5-6 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

1 Cor 1:21 - Yes, 'those who believe'. Not those who stop believing. The condition for being saved is clear. You HAVE to believe. We DO that through the supernatural, unmerited gift of faith that God gives to do that. Most in human history will reject that gift and choose to not believe.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

 

[DRS81]

Non-OSAS is not about questioning your salvation. Quite the opposite. By the very definition of what it means to 'have faith' non_OSAS says your faith is the surety of your salvation. But in OSAS, faith is always in question until the Day of Redemption

Wow, I guess they're right when they say the devil mixes truth with lies. The devil was definitely in your post here Jethro. I will correct it for you. The truth of this post is OSAS is not about questioning your salvation. Quite the opposite. By the very definition of what it means to 'have faith' OSAS says your faith is the security of your salvation. But in Non-OSAS, faith is always in question until the Day of Redemption.

Jethro, you've questioned your salvation with 24 scriptures!!! Seriously?

James 1:6-8 - Non-OSAS is not about questioning your salvation. Quite the opposite. By the very definition of what it means to 'have faith' non_OSAS says your faith is the surety of your salvation. But in OSAS, faith is always in question until the Day of Redemption, at which time it may finally be shown to be the faith that saves, because it is at that time, and that time only, that it can no longer fail and be revealed as a fake faith that can not save.

Wow, I guess they're right when they say the devil mixes truth with lies. The devil was definitely in your post here Jethro. I will correct it for you. The truth of this post is OSAS is not about questioning your salvation. Quite the opposite. By the very definition of what it means to 'have faith' OSAS says your faith is the security of your salvation. But in Non-OSAS, faith is always in question until the Day of Redemption.

Jethro, you've questioned your salvation with 24 scriptures!!! Seriously?

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

2 Tim 2:11-13 - Now, ask yourself, if being faithless and disowning God are the same thing, how can God say he will disown us if we disown him, but then turn right around and say when we are faithless he will remain faithful? The point is, OSAS uses this passage to show us that God can never ever disown believers. But it's clear that God does not disown us because we are faithless, but because we disown him. The point being, disowning God and being faithless, but still trusting in Christ, are two totally separate things. Totally. An important BIBLICAL distinction (as you can see) that OSAS fails to see and acknowledge.

2 Tim 2:11-13 Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; 12if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; 13if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

1. Notice it says we died with him. When you die in something you can't go back to where you were. We died with him. We didn't just die in petty worldly things, we died along with the body of Jesus Christ! Body to Body. 2. We will endure because the blood of Christ will not let us go. 3. Disowning God or refusing to acknowledge his presence is not the same as an apostate leaving his faith for good. That's not what it's saying. Christians disown God by willfully sinning and then repenting once again, but it has no effect on their salvation. An apostate never even came to salvation to begin with. 4. If we are faithless, he will remain faithful. Meaning if we sin, the holy spirit will convict us and God will never ever stop loving us. He loved us before we loved him. He cannot disown himself because when you are baptized in the holy spirit you are baptized in the body of Christ. He can't leave what he already put a seal on.

Heb 10:10-12 - The 'once and for all' doesn't mean you can stop believing and still be saved because salvation was irreversibly completed and secured in one offering of Christ by faith to God when you first believed. It means when you sin again you don't need to bring a new sacrifice of Christ to the altar to be forgiven. It's already there and able to deal with your recurring sin. Not so in the old covenant and the blood of bulls and goats. One sacrifice could only deal with the sin you committed to date. When you sinned again you had to bring another sacrifice. The author is explaining how you don't have to do that with Christ. You make your appeal for forgiveness for all sin past, present, and future, when it happens, by the one time offering of Christ's sacrifice that remains in heaven for you.
Note that in this same letter to the Hebrews, the author explains to these sanctified, saved believers that if they fall away that this one-time sacrifice for sin, which does not have to be repeatedly sacrificed for future sins, will no longer remain for them to do that (Hebrews 10:26 NASB).

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence. Once you believe that's it, God has revealed himself to you through the Holy Spirit. There is no going back. God is now alive in you. When I say God is alive in you, do you understand what that means. Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life. You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

Heb 10:22-23 - "With the full assurance that FAITH brings"

Heb 10:22-23 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.

The words 'assurance' and 'for he who promised is faithful' speaks for itself.

John 10:27-29 - Someday OSAS will have to explain how this means you yourself can not walk out of God's hand yourself. Especially since the Bible warns sanctified, believing people to not do that, or else lose the salvation they have. What we can clearly see it says is that no one else can remove you from God's hand.

Scripture doesn't say no one else, it says no one. You are adding to scripture. Why does it say the Father's hand? Because when you believe and have faith in Jesus Christ, the Father sends his holy spirit to you to indwell you. The Father is the end of the line, he is the most power entity or being in the universe, and that says a lot.

Psalm 56:8 & Luke 10:19-20 - Are you referring to the place where names are written which God said he will erase if necessary?

Scripture never says he will erase our names from the book, and thank the Lord you're wrong ha. Why are we rejoicing if our names can be erased. Thank you Lord for this post and granting me the patience and strength to answer post. - DRS81

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God's grace and love isn't something you read off a forum. It's an experience you go through and is with you until redemption.

"...if you hold fast the word..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

Because the promise comes from God Jethro. We're not keeping the promise, God is!

I like OSAS because it doesn't require me to keep believing in the promise to attain the promise. That's comforting.....to my flesh.

The promise is a gift from God. The words seal, promise and guarantee means what it means.

So, when my wife sealed my Lasagna leftovers in a Tupperware dish I will never ever be able to open it up? That's what sealed means?

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence.

Believing only comes once Jethro. Salvation is a one time occurrence.

Can anyone else see the irony here?

(I'm easily entertained.)

We are considered holy not because we continue in faith by anything we do but because the holy spirit is convicting us of righteousness.

Wait, wait, wait......the argument is we are set apart as holy because we have faith, not because we do right things. How is it that you are confusing the two? When did 'having faith' get moved over to the side of 'doing things' in regard to being justified'?

You're not giving any credit to the holy spirit. God loved us first before we loved him. When we come to faith we're putting our trust in Jesus Christ, not in ourselves.

Help me understand.....do I put faith in Jesus Christ, or does God do that for me?

It's all about Him and what he did on the cross for us.

I believe that, so explain to me how I apply what he did on the cross to myself?

Once you accepted Jesus as your savior...

So are you saying I did do something to get saved? I've been told repeatedly in this thread that God did/does everything, and that's why, technically, it isn't required that I do anything to stay saved. The thinking being, I didn't do anything to get saved, so there's nothing I can do to get unsaved. But you seem to be saying I did do something to get saved. Doesn't that nullify the 'I didn't do anything to get saved, so there's nothing I can do to get unsaved' thinking?

...you welcomed Peter and Paul into your family.

And Mary.....can't forget Mary.

The definition of adoption is to choose or take as one's own. When parents adopt a baby, they're not raising them for 10 years and then when the child is 10 years old the parents decide to kick them to the curb, no.

You do know adoption is an analogy, right?

Adoption is permanent.

When the next story hits the news about a child legally divorcing his parents, call me (ph. # NON-OSAS).

There is no going back.

The children of Israel were allowed to go back to Egypt, and some of them did......and perished.

Notice it says once you have believed you have crossed over from death to life.

Notice it also says that to stay there you have to continue to believe.

You only cross over this bridge once Jethro. You're not going back and forth on the bridge like a chicken with his head cut off.

Correct. Non-OSAS acknowledges the plain words of scripture that say once you lose your salvation that's it, baby, it's over.

 

[Deborah13]

"...if you hold fast the word..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)


I like OSAS because it doesn't require me to keep believing in the promise to attain the promise. That's comforting.....to my flesh.


So, when my wife sealed my Lasagna leftovers in a Tupperware dish I will never ever be able to open it up? That's what sealed means?


Can anyone else see the irony here?

(I'm easily entertained.)



Wait, wait, wait......the argument is we are set apart as holy because we have faith, not because we do right things. How is it that you are confusing the two? When did 'having faith' get moved over to the side of 'doing things' in regard to being justified'?


Help me understand.....do I put faith in Jesus Christ, or does God do that for me?


I believe that, so explain to me how I apply what he did on the cross to myself?


So are you saying I did do something to get saved? I've been told repeatedly in this thread that God did/does everything, and that's why, technically, it isn't required that I do anything to stay saved. The thinking being, I didn't do anything to get saved, so there's nothing I can do to get unsaved. But you seem to be saying I did do something to get saved. Doesn't that nullify the 'I didn't do anything to get saved, so there's nothing I can do to get unsaved' thinking?


And Mary.....can't forget Mary.


You do know adoption is an analogy, right?


When the next story hits the news about a child legally divorcing his parents, call me (ph. # NON-OSAS).


The children of Israel were allowed to go back to Egypt, and some of them did......and perished.


Notice it also says that to stay there you have to continue to believe.


Correct. Non-OSAS acknowledges the plain words of scripture that say once you lose your salvation that's it, baby, it's over.

lol, only Some non-OSAS believe you lose your salvation one time and then it's over.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

lol, only Some non-OSAS believe you lose your salvation one time and then it's over.

As it is written:

"Therefore, the doctrines of the church are like unto a bag of mixed nuts..."

 

[Deborah13]

As it is written:

"Therefore, the doctrines of the church are like unto a bag of mixed nuts..."

 

[Butch5]

I have never understood why the OSAS people say the non-OSAS are trying to get saved by works? I mean if I say "one cannot earn their salvation", that's what I mean. Yet some OSAS still somehow come to the conclusion that it's works?

I think because it's the only argument there is. Its a straw man but it deflects from the lack of evidence for OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The truth of this post is OSAS is not about questioning your salvation. Quite the opposite.

That's what's so deceiving about OSAS. It doesn't even know the implications of it's own doctrine. In OSAS, you can't know if you're really saved or not until you pass the time of this age where failure is possible to show whether your believing to date has been fake or not. Not failing doesn't prove you're saved because there's always tomorrow to prove you wrong. And that is supposed to be the doctrine of security that we can rest easy in?.

By the very definition of what it means to 'have faith' OSAS says your faith is the security of your salvation. But in Non-OSAS, faith is always in question until the Day of Redemption.

Hey, wait....didn't I say that?

Jethro, you've questioned your salvation with 24 scriptures!!! Seriously?

I have faith, and the expected increase of works to validate the presence of that faith and validate it as being able to save. As long as I have those, I don't have to question my salvation. Fear of judgment comes from NOT having faith. But OSAS says that, technically, you don't have to have faith, once you are saved, to continue to have the surety of salvation.

"21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith..." (Hebrews 10:21-22 NASB)

See? Your faith is your assurance of your salvation. But OSAS says that, technically, I don't even have to have that to take comfort in a past salvation experience. I'm going to go with the Bible on this one, but thanks anyway, OSAS.

 

[Deborah13]

That's what's so deceiving about OSAS. It doesn't even know the implications of it's own doctrine. In OSAS, you can't know if you're really saved or not until you pass the time of this age where failure is possible to show whether your believing to date has been fake or not. Not failing doesn't prove you're saved because there's always tomorrow to prove you wrong. And that is supposed to be the doctrine of security that we can rest easy in?.

Hey, wait....didn't I say that?

I have faith, and the expected increase of works to validate the presence of that faith and validate it as being able to save. As long as I have those, I don't have to question my salvation. Fear of judgment comes from NOT having faith. But OSAS says that, technically, you don't have to have faith, once you are saved, to continue to have the surety of salvation.

"21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith..." (Hebrews 10:21-22 NASB)

See? Your faith is your assurance of your salvation. But OSAS says that, technically, I don't even have to have that to take comfort in a past salvation experience. I'm going to go with the Bible on this one, but thanks anyway, OSAS.

Hebrews 10:20-23 YLT
.. which way he did initiate for us--new and living, through the vail, that is, his flesh--and a high priest over the house of God, may we draw near with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, having the hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and having the body bathed with pure water; may we hold fast the unwavering profession of the hope, (for faithful is He who did promise),

As I understand this.....
For the OSAS their hope is not based on their ability to always be faithful but on His faithfulness to fulfill the salvation promise for those who turn to Him.