The reason you cant lose your salvation is?.....

[angel page]

Please share what Jesus said that makes Him OSAS.


JLB

That made him OSAS? I don't know what that means. However, Jesus entire ministry was dedicated to the teaching of eternal life and salvation. I'll post two scriptures but all of the gospel speaks to this.


John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[jonahmano]

That made him OSAS? I don't know what that means. However, Jesus entire ministry was dedicated to the teaching of eternal life and salvation. I'll post two scriptures but all of the gospel speaks to this.


John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

OSAS means Once Saved Always Saved

 

[angel page]

Yes, I do believe we all know that.

May this assist your understanding: Bible Dictionary - Eternal Life

Salvation

 

[jonahmano]

Yes, I do believe we all know that.

Then why does Jesus say in Matthew 24. Those who endure till the end shall be saved.

Logically it means that those who don't endure will not be saved.

 

[angel page]

Then why does Jesus say in Matthew 24. Those who endure till the end shall be saved.

Logically it means that those who don't endure will not be saved.

I believe for logic to enter in you have to read the passage in context. Matthew 24 itself should put it into perspective for you.

 

[JLB]

That made him OSAS? I don't know what that means. However, Jesus entire ministry was dedicated to the teaching of eternal life and salvation. I'll post two scriptures but all of the gospel speaks to this.


John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Thank you for that scripture.

That is comforting and edifying.

Now all you need to hear are these words...and the reality of Salvation is yours.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34


For now however,

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24

He who endures to the end will be saved.


Receiving The end of your faith is the Salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9


23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23


Please consider these scriptures in all soberness.


JLB

 

[angel page]

Please don't presume to preach to me. I do not respect false teachers and their heresy. Though at times I do, and appears to fail in this case, attempt to save them from eternal destruction by pointing out their blasphemy, ignorance of scripture, and sin.

Edited to add this: Because our Lord warned us that in the last days there would be false teachers and prophets who would seek to lead the world astray with lies, I thought to add this for those who are seekers still in sin. Or who are possibly, and God forbid, led to believe the lies that state salvation is not eternal. That is a lie from the pit. And it is not scriptural. But it is pleasing to Satan if one believes it.

Read John 10.
Particularly where Jesus says this: **Underline and bold font is my edit for clarity of the truth of Christ's words and that renounce eternally those false teachers who argue salvation can be lost or renounced.**

John 10:22-30 (ESV)
At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Thank you for that scripture.

That is comforting and edifying.

Now all you need to hear are these words...and the reality of Salvation is yours.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34


For now however,

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24

He who endures to the end will be saved.


Receiving The end of your faith is the Salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9


23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23


Please consider these scriptures in all soberness.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Please don't presume to preach to me. I do not respect false teachers and their heresy. Though at times I do, and appears to fail in this case, attempt to save them from eternal destruction by pointing out their blasphemy, ignorance of scripture, and sin.

Ok. I will wait for you to point out my ignorance and Blasphemy with the scriptures you have.


Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

Please don't presume to preach to me. I do not respect false teachers and their heresy. Though at times I do, and appears to fail in this case, attempt to save them from eternal destruction by pointing out their blasphemy, ignorance of scripture, and sin.

Edited to add this: Because our Lord warned us that in the last days there would be false teachers and prophets who would seek to lead the world astray with lies, I thought to add this for those who are seekers still in sin. Or who are possibly, and God forbid, led to believe the lies that state salvation is not eternal. That is a lie from the pit. And it is not scriptural. But it is pleasing to Satan if one believes it.

Read John 10.
Particularly where Jesus says this: **Underline and bold font is my edit for clarity of the truth of Christ's words and that renounce eternally those false teachers who argue salvation can be lost or renounced.**

John 10:22-30 (ESV)
At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Is this the scripture that makes me out to be. Heretic or are Heretics and sin and ignorance and Blasphemers the exception to OSAS?

I've been saved so my Heretical ignorant sin and blasphemy will not send me to hell.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Then why does Jesus say in Matthew 24. Those who endure till the end shall be saved.

Logically it means that those who don't endure will not be saved.

Endure what Jonahmano?
Endure stupid Christians who use one verse to try to prove the entire bible?
Endure too much commercialization?
Endure too many commercials between programs?
Endure drinking a Coke when they want a Pepsi?
Endure having to deal with too many Preachers who are trying to build 20,000 seat monuments to themselves as proof they are anointed?

Endure WHAT to the end?
you dont even have a clue, and will only give your OPINION of what you THINK you know, that you cant prove and cant even explain.....yet, you'll try to use this verse to create the hell option for yourself.
Too funny.


Here i'll give you a few to help you jump in the lake of fire.

"liars and cowards, will have their part in the lake of fire".

So, have you told a lie since you believed that Jesus is the Messiah?
OPPS.....better get out the sun screen


So, why dont you instead of trying to send your fellow Christians to hell..........why dont you instead do some deep deep studying of Paul's teachings, as he alone is the person who Christ himself gave the revelation of "grace" that
we now understand is the "Gift of Righteousness" that ALLOWS us to have fellowship with God.
So, take my advice and stay away from HEBREWS, JAMES, and MATTHEW, until you have mastered a little bit of ROMANS, Colossians, Galatians, and Ephesians....
And then go and play in Hebrews and James and Matthew, as you will be ready for those, as you are certainly not at this time.

Let me tell you how you can spot a heretic.
Its a sure way to do it.
If you want to spot a heretic then note if a person who talks about the scripture lives in Matthew, Hebrews, and James.
All Heretics live in those 3 books.
All of them.

And all of them think you can lose your salvation and that God wants you to live in poverty even the he doesn't.

 

[JLB]

Endure what Jonahmano?
Endure stupid Christians who use one verse to try to prove the entire bible?
Endure too much commercialization?
Endure too many commercials between programs?
Endure drinking a Coke when they want a Pepsi?
Endure having to deal with too many Preachers who are trying to build 20,000 seat monuments to themselves as proof they are anointed?

Endure WHAT to the end?
you dont even have a clue, and will only give your OPINION of what you THINK you know, that you cant prove and cant even explain.....yet, you'll try to use this verse to create the hell option for yourself.
Too funny.


Here i'll give you a few to help you jump in the lake of fire.

"liars and cowards, will have their part in the lake of fire".

So, have you told a lie since you believed that Jesus is the Messiah?
OPPS.....better get out the sun screen


So, why dont you instead of trying to send your fellow Christians to hell..........why dont you instead do some deep deep studying of Paul's teachings, as he alone is the person who Christ himself gave the revelation of "grace" that
we now understand is the "Gift of Righteousness" that ALLOWS us to have fellowship with God.
So, take my advice and stay away from HEBREWS, JAMES, and MATTHEW, until you have mastered a little bit of ROMANS, Colossians, Galatians, and Ephesians....
And then go and play in Hebrews and James and Matthew, as you will be ready for those, as you are certainly not at this time.

Let me tell you how you can spot a heretic.
Its a sure way to do it.
If you want to spot a heretic then note if a person who talks about the scripture lives in Matthew, Hebrews, and James.
All Heretics live in those 3 books.
All of them.

And all of them think you can lose your salvation and that God wants you to live in poverty even the he doesn't.

Maybe you are under the impression that Paul and Jesus had a different message.

God wants us to be blessed and filled with peace and joy and righteousness and love people...

If you are not walking in that, then TEST YOURSELF TO SEE IF YOU ARE IN THE FAITH!


For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Endure WHAT to the end?

Here, let me help you:

13'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells." (Revelation 2:13 NASB)

Enduring does not mean being sinless. Enduring means staying in the race despite all the skinned knees and shin splints of the race and NOT denying the name of Christ. It is these who will inherit the kingdom, not the careless, lulled to sleep Christian who is sure he can not sin himself out of the kingdom through a contempt or indifference for, and denial of the blood of Christ that sanctified him and as a result has no fear of being cut out of the root that supports him.

The deceitfulness comes in when a Christian thinks his willful sin can not possibly be an indication that he is actually in denial of Christ and the faith, especially when he gets constant encouragement from the doctrine of OSAS that it's impossible for him to deny Christ and the faith. The scriptures encourage us to purposely live holy lives so we can know for ourselves and not be deceived that we are indeed holding the name of Christ fast and not denying him.

Here i'll give you a few to help you jump in the lake of fire.

"liars and cowards, will have their part in the lake of fire".

So, have you told a lie since you believed that Jesus is the Messiah?
OPPS.....better get out the sun screen

I see you are still very ignorant of the argument.

Non-OSAS doesn't mean you never sin. It means keeping the growing pains of sin in your life under the blood of Christ and not denying that blood which keeps you forgiven and justified before the Father in heaven. The one who is in danger of the lake of fire is the one who has become careless about--even having contempt for--the blood of Christ as evidenced by his wanton sin and lack of seriousness about that sin (after all, that sin can't rob him of his place in the kingdom, so he thinks).

So, why dont you instead of trying to send your fellow Christians to hell..........why dont you instead do some deep deep studying of Paul's teachings, as he alone is the person who Christ himself gave the revelation of "grace" that
we now understand is the "Gift of Righteousness" that ALLOWS us to have fellowship with God.
So, take my advice and stay away from HEBREWS, JAMES, and MATTHEW, until you have mastered a little bit of ROMANS, Colossians, Galatians, and Ephesians....
And then go and play in Hebrews and James and Matthew, as you will be ready for those, as you are certainly not at this time.

Let me tell you how you can spot a heretic.
Its a sure way to do it.
If you want to spot a heretic then note if a person who talks about the scripture lives in Matthew, Hebrews, and James.
All Heretics live in those 3 books.
All of them.

What I've noticed is the heresy that says a believer can not deny the name of Christ avoids these books, because they speak so clearly to saved believers about the danger of doing that.

I know these come from books that don't agree with OSAS doctrine very well, but somewhere along the line you are going to have to explain how the unmerciful servant had his debt reinstated, and how sanctified people can be punished with the punishment of the damned for trampling on the blood that sanctified them. Really. Some day, some where OSAS is going to have to make these 'go away' in a better way than just ignoring them if it expects honest, 'whole counsel of God', Christ loving believers not under the spell of OSAS to now believe OSAS doctrine.

 

[Danus]

Jethro, imo, it is not the doctrine of OSAS that causes a "do-nothing 'cause it's all free'" attitude. If it was than people like Charles Spurgeon (Calvinist), Matthew Henry (Puritan), John Gill (Calvinist) would have had that attitude and they did not. The Puritans were hardly a 'do whatever, it doesn't matter' group of people.
I think what we may be seeing is a society that breeds 'do whatever' attitudes and it has corrupted some peoples view of 'by grace, through faith'. It certainly was not the attitude for several hundred years.
So blaming the OSAS doctrine for the problems in the church now seems inappropriate to me.

Well said.

 

[JLB]

Jethro, imo, it is not the doctrine of OSAS that causes a "do-nothing 'cause it's all free'" attitude. If it was than people like Charles Spurgeon (Calvinist), Matthew Henry (Puritan), John Gill (Calvinist) would have had that attitude and they did not. The Puritans were hardly a 'do whatever, it doesn't matter' group of people.
I think what we may be seeing is a society that breeds 'do whatever' attitudes and it has corrupted some peoples view of 'by grace, through faith'. It certainly was not the attitude for several hundred years.
So blaming the OSAS doctrine for the problems in the church now seems inappropriate to me.

How does this address the scriptures that are being presented?


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here, let me help you:

13'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells." (Revelation 2:13 NASB)

Enduring does not mean being sinless. Enduring means staying in the race despite all the skinned knees and shin splints of the race and NOT denying the name of Christ. It is these who will inherit the kingdom, not the careless, lulled to sleep Christian who is sure he can not sin himself out of the kingdom through a contempt or indifference for, and denial of the blood of Christ that sanctified him and as a result has no fear of being cut out of the root that supports him.

The deceitfulness comes in when a Christian thinks his willful sin can not possibly be an indication that he is actually in denial of Christ and the faith, especially when he gets constant encouragement from the doctrine of OSAS that it's impossible for him to deny Christ and the faith. The scriptures encourage us to purposely live holy lives so we can know for ourselves and not be deceived that we are indeed holding the name of Christ fast and not denying him.




I see you are still very ignorant of the argument.

Non-OSAS doesn't mean you never sin. It means keeping the growing pains of sin in your life under the blood of Christ and not denying that blood which keeps you forgiven and justified before the Father in heaven. The one who is in danger of the lake of fire is the one who has become careless about--even having contempt for--the blood of Christ as evidenced by his wanton sin and lack of seriousness about that sin (after all, that sin can't rob him of his place in the kingdom, so he thinks).




What I've noticed is the heresy that says a believer can not deny the name of Christ avoids these books, because they speak so clearly to saved believers about the danger of doing that.

I know these come from books that don't agree with OSAS doctrine very well, but somewhere along the line you are going to have to explain how the unmerciful servant had his debt reinstated, and how sanctified people can be punished with the punishment of the damned for trampling on the blood that sanctified them. Really. Some day, some where OSAS is going to have to make these 'go away' in a better way than just ignoring them if it expects honest, 'whole counsel of God', Christ loving believers not under the spell of OSAS to now believe OSAS doctrine.

I would like to see a Scripture that says, "unless you do (something, anything), you will lose your salvation. For your salvation is not a free gift from God unless you do (something, anything).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would like to see a Scripture that says, "unless you do (something, anything), you will lose your salvation. For your salvation is not a free gift from God unless you do (something, anything).

Glad you asked.

 

[JLB]

I would like to see a Scripture that says, "unless you do (something, anything), you will lose your salvation. For your salvation is not a free gift from God unless you do (something, anything).

It's what you don't do that causes you to lose you salvation.

Before your saved the command to Repent, which means turn to God, and believe the Gospel is what we are required to do.

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15

After we are saved, were are to continue to believe and obey this command.

Those who turn back, or turn away from God have become unbelievers, and are disobedient to the original command to repent.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

The warning to the Church in Galatia, is also found in Paul's letter's to other Church's and are still true today for us.

Inherit the Kingdom of God is the expression Jesus uses on the Day of Judgement, when He returns at the end of the age, to gather His people at the Resurrection.


31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-35


What a glorious Day that will be for those who hear these words from our Lord, when He comes to be admired among those who obey the Gospel.


Others, who do not inherit the Kingdom of God will hear these words...

'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would like to see a Scripture that says, "unless you do (something, anything), you will lose your salvation.

"43 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves *, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers." (Luke 12:43-46 NASB)

For your salvation is not a free gift from God unless you do (something, anything).

As you know, salvation is a free gift in that you do not do anything to merit it as payment due for work completed. But that hardly means you do not have to have faith to be saved. Salvation comes by having your sins forgiven through faith in Christ's blood, not worked away by the effort of doing good. So it is not 'free' as in you don't have to 'do' anything at all to be saved. You have to believe to be saved. And the work of love that you do because your sins are forgiven is the evidence by which God measures that believing. The work itself does not make you saved. The faith that produced it does.

So, no works means somewhere along the line the servant of God has stopped believing and is in danger of being assigned a place with the unbelievers and hypocrites upon Christ's return, for "the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:50-51 NASB).


Having said all this, now read this:

2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. 4 'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.' (Revelation 3:2-6 NASB)

 

[OzSpen]

I would like to see a Scripture that says, "unless you do (something, anything), you will lose your salvation. For your salvation is not a free gift from God unless you do (something, anything).

Rollo,

For me, that's too prescriptive. You seem to be putting God in a box where he has to say it in Scripture the way you want him to say it. Why not go to Scripture and find its language for challenging where a person remains in the faith or not.

I'm thinking of verses like these:

'8 This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme' (1 Tim 1:18-20 ESV).​

What does it mean when it states that Hymenaeus and Alexander 'made shipwreck of their faith'?

Lutheran commentator, R C H Lenski. in his commentary on 1 Tim 1:19 wrote:

'The Greek permits Paul to continue with three consecutive relative clauses; in English we should use independent clauses. The first is to be construed with “a good conscience” and not also with “faith,” for “the faith” appears in the relative clause: “which some by thrusting away (or: having thrust away) made shipwreck regarding the (their) faith.” When they thrust aside their conscience which tried to hold them to the prophecies they had learned from faithful teachers they made shipwreck of their very faith. One cannot keep his faith while he plays fast and loose with the prophecies (Word). He will have to silence his conscience, make it cease crying out against such practice, and then his faith is wrecked whether he admits it or not' (Lenski 1937:532, emphasis added).​

And then what happens? They are 'handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme'. So those who shipwreck their faith in this way are blaspheming God.

Oz

Works consulted
Lenski, R C H 1937. Commentary on the New Testament: The interpretation of St. Paul’s epistles to the Colossians, to the Thessalonians, to Timothy, to Titus, and to Philemon. Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Romans 10:8-11:
"But what does it say? The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith that we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame".

This is what I was looking for from all of you but it seems that you do not think on these terms.
There is nothing in these verses that can be used to justify losing your salvation.