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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

wondering said:
FF, this is a subject you've hammered to death.
However, yes, all babies go to heaven because Jesus died for them.
They are included in the ALL that Jesus died for besides us.
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Well, if God loves everyone the same ... why does He love (volition to favor) babies, the aborted, miscarriages more than most of mankind? I keep harping on this point because it is a huge piece of evidence that God does not favor (love) everyone the same which is a focal point of your argument.
Fact: Up to 1800 approx. 40% of people born did not live past age 5, by 1960 20% did not live past age 5, now it is 2%. The current world abortion rate is 4% and the miscarriage rate if 25% (all info from father Google).

This is proof that a majority of people in heaven are there solely because of God and not libertarian free will (indifference of choice).


wondering said:
There's only ONE gospel.
A person has heard it or not.
No one is in a position to know who is going to heaven that has not heard the gospel.
Paul said in Romans 1 that NO PERSON has an excuse because God has made Himself be known through His creation.
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I agree there is one gospel. You can correct me here, but I believe you said those that have not heard the gospel can go to heaven. The conclusion is that you believe in two gospels of salvation.
Aside: Can you find a commentary on the internet that thinks someone can get to heaven without faith in Christ (I am not talking about the finer points of before Christ's death)
Aside2: Maybe your are on the fence now as you state you don't know the fate of those who have not heard the gospel ... which implies you think there may be two gospels.
Aside3: Your position needs clarification

Hey, I thought you hung up your spurs for the next few days (Xmas) ... I wrote a response to something else you posted but didn't post because you were taking a sabbatical.
P.S. I are supposed to be 'fighting' with Bright

Have a great Xmas.... hope you hubby is feeling better.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Hey, I thought you hung up your spurs for the next few days (Xmas) ... I wrote a response to something else you posted but didn't post because you were taking a sabbatical.
P.S. I are supposed to be 'fighting' with Bright

Have a great Xmas.... hope you hubby is feeling better.
Click to expand...
xmas ? what if Christ x you out CHRIST MAS
 
JLB said:
How about if the child is 18, or 28, or 48 and must choose whether to be adopted ?
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A red herring. All analogies are that, analogous ... not equivocal.

JLB said:
Your theory is only relevant concerning natural little children.
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Yes, 99.9% of adoptions are of children (I am guessing at the percentage)
All analogies are that, analogous ... not equivocal.
I admit all analogies are inferior to didactic scripture and should be viewed with some skepticism.
But so many analogies lean my way (towards us not monergism vs. synergism)
Born Again ... parents control who is born
Spiritually death ... one does not bring oneself back to life
Potter and the clay ... it's the potter that determines what destiny of the clay
Slaves of Satan ... salve don't free themselves, that have to be bought to be free
Admittedly, just analogies.


JLB said:
Each person must choose to believe the Gospel or not.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The point of contention is the reason for choosing. You say (IMO) that NO ONE SEEKS God and yet through the power of libertarian free will (indifference) one can adopt himself because God is obligated to adopt those who believe and share His glory in the process of salvation with His partner, man .... and I say that the person who did not seek God, God found and regenerated His elect causing that person to chose to believe, not because of indifference (libertarian free will), but because God changed his mind (repentance) thus all the glory goes to God.

Aside: I may have put some words in your mouth in regards to your beliefs
 
Fastfredy0 said:
A red herring. All analogies are that, analogous ... not equivocal.
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you have been trained and programed by Calvinist. this is old stuff <
a pejorative to obscure a lack of critical thinking
.... couldn't resist,> nice insult considering the lack of grey matter
Season 9 Nbc GIF by The Office
 
JLB said:
Jesus certainly gave His life for His sheep. He also gave His life for anyone else who wanted to become one of His sheep.

Anyone.


I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
John 10:9-11


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Jesus died for anyone in the world who desires to become one of His sheep.



JLB
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I noticed you left out something when Jesus said I am the door. Let's read it completely: Jn 10:7

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

And again Jesus is the Good Shepherd and He gave His life for the Sheep and it effected their Salvation. Jesus life and death saves.
 
jerry63935 said:
he died so they could be forgiven/payment for sins .your excuses have not changed over the years . if your trying to convince me ----you failed. If you have convinced your self. looks like you done a good job. you been programmed well
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Ain't no could be. Those Christ died for are forgiven through His Blood. Christ death effected their Salvation, Forgiveness, Redemption, Sanctification.
 
brightfame52 said:
I noticed you left out something when Jesus said I am the door. Let's read it completely: Jn 10:7

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

And again Jesus is the Good Shepherd and He gave His life for the Sheep and it effected their Salvation. Jesus life and death saves.
Click to expand...

I left nothing out. I actually posted the scripture that you didn’t.

We see that if “anyone” wants to become His sheep, they must enter through the door, which is Jesus Christ; the way, the truth and the life.



I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
John 10:9-11


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Jesus died for anyone in the world who desires to become one of His sheep.


ANYONE can freely come to receive life from Him.


Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
John 4:10


Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:13-14



And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:17



Please explain to us how one becomes one of His sheep?

Is it your claim that His sheep are His sheep from birth?




JLB
 
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Fastfredy0 said:
Question: If God loves everyone, then why did He not bring the gospel to so many; the consequence of which is these ones the God suppositely loves (a volition to favor) end up in hell. (Faith cometh by hearing ... since they did not hear they do not have faith which is the instrument God decided to use for salvation).
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FYI, I'm a sister not a brother, LOL.

God is the word from the beginning unto the end and His word has always gone out into the world. It's man that has shut his ears to hear that of what is preached everywhere.
 
brightfame52 said:
Those Christ died for are forgiven through His Blood. Christ death effected their Salvation, Forgiveness, Redemption, Sanctification.
Click to expand...
he died so the who so ever could be. saved

John 3:17​


“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” your theology is off. your holding to Jewish theology they thought they was the only ones who could saved. you have it backwards he died so WE could be forgiven. he does not go through in life and saying you and you can be saved. you cant be saved your condemned from birth. you take agape love and turn it to a select few. whats amazing is how Calvinist just happen to be the elect. Along with there family . the gentiles other nations not Jewish have been grafted in. your tearing Grace up like a broken glass .shattered . i see no Hope in your theology john 3:17 says it all even John the revelator wrote

Revelation 22:17​


“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” you say a dead man cant hear the spirit quickens brings to LIFE . if the Bible says HE TASTED DEATH FOR ALL then all can be saved ( not all will be saved ) the unpardonable sin is the rejecting of Christ never being saved
 
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Parenthesis added by me

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. (word fear means respect)
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; (Now preached throughout the world)
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

We really need to believe what scripture says and not what man adds to or takes away from it as mans religion loves to add and take away.
 
for_his_glory said:
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Parenthesis added by me

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. (word fear means respect)
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; (Now preached throughout the world)
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

We really need to believe what scripture says and not what man adds to or takes away from it as mans religion loves to add and take away.
Click to expand...

Sorry Deb,

But those scriptures are just outdated.

Everyone knows the new (reformed) way to understand the scriptures is like this...


For God so loved the world His sheep that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him is predestined to be saved should not perish but have everlasting life.
Calvinism 3:16


This is the correct way to read and understand this passage. Once you get this “true understanding” about the message of salvation then you will be able to “see clearly” what the rest of the scriptures truly mean.


Example:


But in every nation whoever His sheep that fear Him and work righteousness have been justified is accepted by Him.
Acts 10:35


This is an example of properly “interpreting“ this verse that you quoted from the book of Acts.


Please use this new reformed “understanding” when studying the scriptures.






JLB
 
JLB said:
Sorry Deb,

But those scriptures are just outdated.

Everyone knows the new (reformed) way to understand the scriptures is like this...


For God so loved the world His sheep that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him is predestined to be saved should not perish but have everlasting life.
Calvinism 3:16


This is the correct way to read and understand this passage. Once you get this “true understanding” about the message of salvation then you will be able to “see clearly” what the rest of the scriptures truly mean.


Example:


But in every nation whoever His sheep that fear Him and work righteousness have been justified is accepted by Him.
Acts 10:35


This is an example of properly “interpreting“ this verse that you quoted from the book of Acts.


Please use this new reformed “understanding” when studying the scriptures.






JLB
Click to expand...
Some believe in the heresies of limited atonement and others in truth of unlimited atonement. Here we are on page eight and still beating a dead horse which needs to be buried. Man has two choices to either believe that which is already written or believe those who add to and take away from the word of God. All I can say is let each believe as they will be led and let God be their judge.
 
JLB said:
I left nothing out. I actually posted the scripture that you didn’t.

We see that if “anyone” wants to become His sheep, they must enter through the door, which is Jesus Christ; the way, the truth and the life.



I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
John 10:9-11


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Jesus died for anyone in the world who desires to become one of His sheep.


ANYONE can freely come to receive life from Him.


Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
John 4:10


Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:13-14



And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Revelation 22:17



Please explain to us how one becomes one of His sheep?

Is it your claim that His sheep are His sheep from birth?




JLB
Click to expand...
Well He specifically stated He is the door of the Sheep ! I didnt see that in your post. Its important to be specific when Christ is specific. And we know He didnt die for all without exception since all without exception are going to be saved. Christs death effects Salvation, that is what this thread is about, and Im proving it with scripture.
 
jerry63935 said:
he died so the who so ever could be. saved

John 3:17​


“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” your theology is off. your holding to Jewish theology they thought they was the only ones who could saved. you have it backwards he died so WE could be forgiven. he does not go through in life and saying you and you can be saved. you cant be saved your condemned from birth. you take agape love and turn it to a select few. whats amazing is how Calvinist just happen to be the elect. Along with there family . the gentiles other nations not Jewish have been grafted in. your tearing Grace up like a broken glass .shattered . i see no Hope in your theology john 3:17 says it all even John the revelator wrote

Revelation 22:17​


“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” you say a dead man cant hear the spirit quickens brings to LIFE . if the Bible says HE TASTED DEATH FOR ALL then all can be saved ( not all will be saved ) the unpardonable sin is the rejecting of Christ never being saved
Click to expand...
He died to effect the Salvation of His Sheep, men and women from every nation, the world.
 
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