The Simple Key to Interpreting Revelation

[RBDERRICK]

This I already know.

Good. Not everyone knows that. I certainly didn't used to.

That is why some Christians treat doctrine differently from prophecy. They are more strict in teaching doctrine by taking the words of Scripture literally. Fornicators and drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of God means just that.

However they treat words of prophecy loosely with license to symbolize words where they like, and remove their physical application. Coming in the air in sight of all people, and smiting and ruling over the nations with rod of iron, means just that.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I’ve read a lot of false teaching to include the cults and when you look deeper, it’s always an appeal to a more comfortable theology.

Not true. Tell that to the JW's or certain Pentecostal holiness sects. The Pharisees certainly weren't preaching comfort to the masses.

Some have their own desirable ideas, and others have their own iron-clad rules. Some take away from the law of Christ, and others add to it.

It’s my own observation. Take Calvinism. This theology relieves the adherent of all the unpleasantness of repentance and maintaining oneself in the faith. God (supposedly) chose one for Heaven long ago. Isn’t that appealing to laziness and pride?!!

Current predestination OSAS is indeed the milksop Christianity that drains all believers of the blood of Jesus, and replaces it with faith-alone water only.

Depends upon the knowledge.

Any knowledge can become puffed up when pride enters in.

I've seen some people declare Jesus Christ and Him crucified with some of the haughtiest faces. Their daily ministry matched it. They had lost any pretence of humbleness and becomes burdensome lord's over God's heritage. And if any Christian left their dominating ministry, then they were denounced as devils.

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You simply ignored what Jesus said about the Patriarchs.

How so. Are you saying other people than Jesus have already been resurrected from the dead like Him?

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

The OT saints have not yet inherited the promise of resurrection from the dead. Not without us.

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

There is no resurrection prophesied in Scripture, that is not of dead bodies.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

How so. Are you saying other people than Jesus have already been resurrected from the dead like Him?

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

The OT saints have not yet inherited the promise of resurrection from the dead. Not without us.

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

There is no resurrection prophesied in Scripture, that is not of dead bodies.

Yes there is, because,

when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. Mk.22:33

The Jewish people weren't astonished about the resurrection of the body. They were astonished because "as touching the resurrection" the Patriarchs never died,

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise againin the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Jn.11:24-26

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not true. Tell that to the JW's or certain Pentecostal holiness sects.

Sure it’s true. The JWs are told that they alone are the true worshippers of God. Appeals right to pride. Much more comfortable than humility. Same with extreme holiness sects…appeals to easy do and don’t rules. No actual uncomfortable obedience necessary.

The Pharisees certainly weren't preaching comfort to the masses.

They weren’t a false christian sect. And many of them came to believe Christ.

Some have their own desirable ideas, and others have their own iron-clad rules. Some take away from the law of Christ, and others add to it.

More comfortable than actual obedience.

Current predestination OSAS is indeed the milksop Christianity that drains all believers of the blood of Jesus, and replaces it with faith-alone water only.

Correct. Very much more comfortable than “take care.”

Any knowledge can become puffed up when pride enters in.

I've seen some people declare Jesus Christ and Him crucified with some of the haughtiest faces. Their daily ministry matched it. They had lost any pretence of humbleness and becomes burdensome lord's over God's heritage. And if any Christian left their dominating ministry, then they were denounced as devils.

I don’t doubt it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dittoes with someone thinking prophesy is already fulfilled, and it isn't.

Quite rare.

You are going by what you symbolize out of what is written. I go by the words written as sure and true.

No, I understand Hebrew literature and it’s many metaphors. Those who think as a westerner miss entirely miss “the words written as sure and true.” They will expect, for example, literal horses and a literal sword in Jesus’ mouth.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

You say I overlook man's history, and I say you gut the Lord's prophecy of substance.

Maybe you’re not award of the history. Also, my understanding shows God to be just whereas as futurism shows Him to be unjust.

I've also corrected your revised Roman history. Rome never ruled over kings, but first removed their kings by war, and then ruled over provinces by their own appointed governors.

I never said they did. Although Herod was certainly a king and Rome most certainly ruled over him. You are in error.

Rome never ruled over kings, but only destroyed their kingships.

Rome ruled over King Herod, no question.

Whether revising history to fit prophesy, or spiritualizing prophecy to fit history, both are false.

I do either. It’s not necessary.

Jesus' Millennium is not a 'figurative' rule over all nations, as you suggest.

You think it’s a bloody hostile attack and take over like the Russians do?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You mention of the sword of the mouth proves you know where it says it, but just don't accept it.

Huh? You really think Jesus is coming with a heavy sharp metal
sword stucke in his mouth?? Really?

I only repeat the plain words of it as physical fact, and not symbolic fable.

I guess you do.

Using a symbol within a prophecy, does not negate the prophecy. Paul says He will destroy them with the spirit of His mouth and brightness of His coming. Do you say that is symbolic only too?

Notice none of that is a physical sword.

Which is no reason to reject the whole prophecy as nothing but metaphor.

I don’t. I understand it.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

No metaphor there.

The only thing possibly symbolic in the prophecy is a sword proceeding out of His mouth, and your mockery of it being 'stuck' in His mouth is telling.

You still believe it’s a literal sword in his mouth??!! That is telling. You are likely waiting for colored bourse with riders holding a scale and so on.

John described the same sword on Patmos. Do you also say Jesus did not appear to John on Patmos as written?

No, I didn’t say that.

You've noticed, but just don't accept it as literal.

I understand it. It’s a very powerful metaphor but having a sword in the mouth isn’t.

The case of Rev 19 with the Lord coming with His armies following from heaven to smite the nations and rule them with rod of iron, is case in point.

I guess you think it’s a bloody violent take over like the Russians.

You reject it as physically true, because of the sword out of His mouth. Was His appearance to John on Patmos also not physically true, because John speaks of the sword proceeding from His mouth.

A sword is the word of God. It isn’t a physical weapon geld in place because his lips are closed over it.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Huh? You really think Jesus is coming with a heavy sharp metal
sword stucke in his mouth?? Really?

I guess you do.

Notice none of that is a physical sword.

I don’t. I understand it.

No metaphor there.

You still believe it’s a literal sword in his mouth??!! That is telling. You are likely waiting for colored bourse with riders holding a scale and so on.

No, I didn’t say that.

I understand it. It’s a very powerful metaphor but having a sword in the mouth isn’t.

I guess you think it’s a bloody violent take over like the Russians.

A sword is the word of God. It isn’t a physical weapon geld in place because his lips are closed over it.

Where do you get that there is a sword in Jesus mouth?
Please show a reference that shows a sword stuck in Jesus mouth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The unbelieving Jews don't believe Revelation at all. They don't believe it will be Jesus coming in power with great glory. They will first receive a false christ coming in his own name.

That’s the futurist eschatology all right.

That's where you misapply the current truth with a future reality. After His coming again, He will be applying His authority with rod of iron over all His inherited nations. The figurehead 'ruling' you teach is not His prophesied Millennium to come.

That’s where you totally misjudge his character. Sounds like a Russian take over, bloody, violent and unjust. This comes from not understanding his ways. The rod of iron is not unusual cruelty, but a consistent position on holiness as opposed to the woosey mushy view on sin view prevalent today.

For example, there are churches taking a loose view of sexual
sin in the name of mercy and grace. They will find his view is iron hard.

No person on earth will be allowed to hold any position of authority anywhere on earth, that is not willingly and gladly submitted to the King.

Tyranny!! His kingdom is not top down authority as you suppose but those who are his, who demonstrate an obedience, are GRANTED authority.

Jesus now as the resurrected man has all authority, but He is not yet applying it physically over all people, except only by grace for those submitting themselves to Him.

I beg to differ. I see him as applying his authority and taking down ruthless tyrants such that they no longer last long.

As the God of Israel He had all authority over all heaven and earth, but He still had to use unjust rulers to achieve His ends.

No, Jesus said only at that point was all authority given to him, not before. It was clear change.

There will be no such unjust rulers used by Him in His Millennium. They will all be done away with and replaced by the just sheep of His pasture.

Not from a violent take over where he puts his preferred in charge.

This is the prophecy of old that will come to pass exactly as written. In Scripture there is no symbolic 'millennium' nor spirit 'resurrection'. There is only one kind of resurrection and millennium: physical.

There is only one Resurrection and that of the body, I agree.

The gospel of being raised from the death of sins and trespasses, and having the rule of Christ over our lives, is not the prophecy of the physical resurrection and millennium to come.

True. It is for now.

Mixing the two inflates one and guts the other.

Maybe I don’t understand.